LS1 cooling system upgrade?
09-14-2014, 06:36 AM
#1
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LS1 cooling system upgrade? Just finish my E36 ls1 swap.
Still fairly new to the ls motor.
My engine bay tends to get hot due smaller spacing.
Looking for upgrade cooling system.
Is it electric water pump worth it? Or should I go with other aftermarket pump like Stewart?
https://www.texas-speed.com/c-83-cooling.aspx
What are some other parts that I can upgrade?
Thanks
Still fairly new to the ls motor.
My engine bay tends to get hot due smaller spacing.
Looking for upgrade cooling system.
Is it electric water pump worth it? Or should I go with other aftermarket pump like Stewart?
https://www.texas-speed.com/c-83-cooling.aspx
What are some other parts that I can upgrade?
Thanks
Last edited by Jasony0228; 09-14-2014 at 06:50 AM.
09-14-2014, 01:53 PM
#3
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http://www.mishimoto.com/bmw-e36-alu...tor-92-99.html
I have mishimoto radiator which is good enough for V8.
Both my water pump and t-stat are oem
But my temp has been over the middle twice during hot day and local driving with AC on.
Running one puller and one pusher right now. Puller is trigger by the radiator sensor. And pusher is trigger by turning on AC. Both fans are 16
I'm thinking to go with v70 Volvo fan.
But is it really better vs 2 small electronic fans?
I have mishimoto radiator which is good enough for V8.
Both my water pump and t-stat are oem
But my temp has been over the middle twice during hot day and local driving with AC on.
Running one puller and one pusher right now. Puller is trigger by the radiator sensor. And pusher is trigger by turning on AC. Both fans are 16
I'm thinking to go with v70 Volvo fan.
But is it really better vs 2 small electronic fans?
09-14-2014, 01:57 PM
#4
You need better fans. Fan diameter isnt what makes a fan so great, fan thickness is what works. If you can fit a set of stock ls1 fans in there, DO IT! They flow 10,000 CFM combined. You've only got about 2,000-3,000 cfm.
09-14-2014, 02:48 PM
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I guess I will swtich to v70 fan
09-14-2014, 03:47 PM
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I'm thinking to go with this set up. V70 fan
http://www.jagsthatrun.com/BMW_Order.html
What do you think, Conan?
Ya. I will likely to switch t-stat when I'm changing the water pump.
My pump is is leaking will need a new one.
Just debating what water pump to go with.
Read somewhere that people swap ls2 pump but will need to modify t-stat housing.
Just thinking that electric water pump would be nice upgrade to keep engine cool and it's direct bolt on without any mod.
Anyone has experienced with it?
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09-14-2014, 04:21 PM
#8
I believed its around 2000-2900 cfm according to bimmerworld.
I'm thinking to go with this set up. V70 fan
http://www.jagsthatrun.com/BMW_Order.html
What do you think, Conan?
Ya. I will likely to switch t-stat when I'm changing the water pump.
My pump is is leaking will need a new one.
Just debating what water pump to go with.
Read somewhere that people swap ls2 pump but will need to modify t-stat housing.
Just thinking that electric water pump would be nice upgrade to keep engine cool and it's direct bolt on without any mod.
Anyone has experienced with it?
I'm thinking to go with this set up. V70 fan
http://www.jagsthatrun.com/BMW_Order.html
What do you think, Conan?
Ya. I will likely to switch t-stat when I'm changing the water pump.
My pump is is leaking will need a new one.
Just debating what water pump to go with.
Read somewhere that people swap ls2 pump but will need to modify t-stat housing.
Just thinking that electric water pump would be nice upgrade to keep engine cool and it's direct bolt on without any mod.
Anyone has experienced with it?
09-14-2014, 04:30 PM
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No way I'm going with 55gpm pump.
It's way too much right now since I just finished swap...lol
I'm looking to get 42gpm if anything.
Or what are some better aftermarket water pump that you would recommend?
It's way too much right now since I just finished swap...lol
I'm looking to get 42gpm if anything.
Or what are some better aftermarket water pump that you would recommend?
09-14-2014, 04:52 PM
#10
Me personally, I would get the water pump gaskets replaced, replace the T-stat with a 160*, and get the highest moving CFM fans you can fit. You have to pull the heat off the core. You can flow as much water as you want, if its hot its not going to cool the motor. Getting air moving would be my first priority, just my $.02.
09-14-2014, 05:17 PM
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Well. I understand that it might just be the gasket problem and Water pump itself might still be good.
But how can you really tell if the pump still good?
It's not easy to replace water.
I would have to remove the front end to do that.
I'd rather do it once than replace gasket and nothing changes.
I think I will keep one of the puller fan and install the v70 fan in the front.
It seems to be the only solution.
But how can you really tell if the pump still good?
It's not easy to replace water.
I would have to remove the front end to do that.
I'd rather do it once than replace gasket and nothing changes.
I think I will keep one of the puller fan and install the v70 fan in the front.
It seems to be the only solution.
09-14-2014, 08:30 PM
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Your #1 problem is radiator core, thickness and facing
area. The stock F-body radiator is too thin for summer
driving, even stock. Fans (plural) are OK-ish if you have
a fatter core. Whatever this Japanese radiator you think
suits "a V8" is, you should compare it physically to a LS1
and a LT1 radiator, and see where you stand.
Airflow is maximized by a decent shroud / duct around
the fan, and any "ramming" (like the chin spoiler on the
F-bodies). On the street, it's fan and shroud, and what
the core can do with that available airflow.
Water pump and thermostat have nothing for you. So
spend your efforts and money on what does.
area. The stock F-body radiator is too thin for summer
driving, even stock. Fans (plural) are OK-ish if you have
a fatter core. Whatever this Japanese radiator you think
suits "a V8" is, you should compare it physically to a LS1
and a LT1 radiator, and see where you stand.
Airflow is maximized by a decent shroud / duct around
the fan, and any "ramming" (like the chin spoiler on the
F-bodies). On the street, it's fan and shroud, and what
the core can do with that available airflow.
Water pump and thermostat have nothing for you. So
spend your efforts and money on what does.
09-18-2014, 10:00 PM
#13
I dont know where the hell you got that info....
but you are way off
Fan diameter/thickness...none of that matters....
Angle of the blades and design efficiency is what makes the difference...
better fan design makes for more CFM....
after that, diameter make s a difference in total capacity, but it doe not guarantee how much it will flow without fan design.
LS1 Fbody fans only flow about 1300-1600 for the pair of them
a c5 Uprgade fan from dewitt radiator (part# SP015)(which also fits the Fbody and quite a few other vehicles as well) flows about 3200 for both fans....
we've done the fan upgrade for quite a few customers now....
it makes a big difference if the Radiator is up to the task to begin with
key words...RADIATOR UP TO THE TASK TO BEGIN WITH
the amount of tubes and the amount of fins is important...
in general...more fins and tubes equals better cooling unless they actually restrict airflow
one other thing to remember is that fan flow, really doesnt matter once you get moving....
one you are moving, the ramming of air into the radiator is far greater than what the fans can flow
just measure the wind speed created by your fans....once you go faster than that, the fans are no longer helping
beyond that speed...its more important to have a proper air dam and shroud to direct the air thru the radiator.
the thermostat does nothing except for regulate max cooling...
it opens at a set temperature, and closes back down below that temperature
You must understand that coolant temperatures also affect engine oil temperatures, and many people do not realize that more engine wear occurs when the engine oil is below 190° F. (88° C.). An effective cooling system controls the engine temperature within a specific range so that the engine operates at peak performance, safety, and long-term reliability.
its also more beneficial in keeping heat in the engine so you get enough heat in the oil to burn off any moisture....this is one of the reasons why a 160 thermostat is a bad idea usually
The 160 Thermostats were invented for and commonly used in older, open loop cooling systems where only 6 pound radiator caps were used, and low 212 degree boiling points were the limit. We know better now.
when it comes to Water pumps, more flow is better...this is a well tested fact
water is an excellent conductor of heat
its important to get as much surface contact as possible and the only way to get more contact with your limited quantity of water is to stir the pot of water by flowing as much as possible
A common misconception is that if coolant flows too quickly through the system, that it will not have time to cool properly. However the cooling system is a closed loop, so if you are keeping the coolant in the radiator longer to allow it to cool, you are also allowing it to stay in the engine longer, which increases coolant temperatures. Coolant in the engine will actually boil away from critical heat areas within the cooling system if not forced through the cooling system at a sufficiently high velocity. This situation is a common cause of so-called "hot spots", which can lead to failures.
its also important that the radiator cap be on the low pressure side of the radiator
Years ago, cars used low pressure radiator caps with upright-style radiators. At high RPM, the water pump pressure would overcome the radiator cap's rating and force coolant out, resulting in an overheated engine. Many enthusiasts mistakenly believed that these situations were caused because the coolant was flowing through the radiator so quickly, that it did not have time to cool. Using restrictors or slowing water pump speed prevented the coolant from being forced out, and allowed the engine to run cooler. However, cars built in the past thirty years have used cross flow radiators that position the radiator cap on the low pressure (suction) side of the system. This type of system does not subject the radiator cap to pressure from the water pump, so it benefits from maximizing coolant flow, not restricting it.
people often fear engine heat...but they dont understand what a proper heat range is....
200*F~220*F is good
stock...the LS1 runs in the mid 230's and low 240's...its not a flaw... its designed that way on purpose
also...if your engine bay is getting hot....try a functional cowl hood or a hood with vents in it to allow the heat to escape....
heat comes from multiple sources under the hood...
try wrapping your exhaust....people see some pretty good drops in temperature from doing that, and often they see a small increase in performance from scavenging of exhaust by keep the heat in the pipes.
Last edited by soundengineer; 09-18-2014 at 10:07 PM.
09-25-2014, 11:21 AM
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Thanks for the help soundengineer!
I'm pretty sure my radiator is up to task. I might upgrade one fan with v70 Volvo fan.
I'm just wondering what are some good upgrade/brand for water pump.
Already getting my header ceramic coat so the engine bay tempt should drop a lot.
I'm pretty sure my radiator is up to task. I might upgrade one fan with v70 Volvo fan.
I'm just wondering what are some good upgrade/brand for water pump.
Already getting my header ceramic coat so the engine bay tempt should drop a lot.
09-25-2014, 09:30 PM
#16
I dont know where the hell you got that info....
but you are way off
Fan diameter/thickness...none of that matters....
Angle of the blades and design efficiency is what makes the difference...
better fan design makes for more CFM....
after that, diameter make s a difference in total capacity, but it doe not guarantee how much it will flow without fan design.
LS1 Fbody fans only flow about 1300-1600 for the pair of them
a c5 Uprgade fan from dewitt radiator (part# SP015)(which also fits the Fbody and quite a few other vehicles as well) flows about 3200 for both fans....
we've done the fan upgrade for quite a few customers now....
it makes a big difference if the Radiator is up to the task to begin with
key words...RADIATOR UP TO THE TASK TO BEGIN WITH
the amount of tubes and the amount of fins is important...
in general...more fins and tubes equals better cooling unless they actually restrict airflow
one other thing to remember is that fan flow, really doesnt matter once you get moving....
one you are moving, the ramming of air into the radiator is far greater than what the fans can flow
just measure the wind speed created by your fans....once you go faster than that, the fans are no longer helping
beyond that speed...its more important to have a proper air dam and shroud to direct the air thru the radiator.
the thermostat does nothing except for regulate max cooling...
it opens at a set temperature, and closes back down below that temperature
You must understand that coolant temperatures also affect engine oil temperatures, and many people do not realize that more engine wear occurs when the engine oil is below 190° F. (88° C.). An effective cooling system controls the engine temperature within a specific range so that the engine operates at peak performance, safety, and long-term reliability.
its also more beneficial in keeping heat in the engine so you get enough heat in the oil to burn off any moisture....this is one of the reasons why a 160 thermostat is a bad idea usually
The 160 Thermostats were invented for and commonly used in older, open loop cooling systems where only 6 pound radiator caps were used, and low 212 degree boiling points were the limit. We know better now.
when it comes to Water pumps, more flow is better...this is a well tested fact
water is an excellent conductor of heat
its important to get as much surface contact as possible and the only way to get more contact with your limited quantity of water is to stir the pot of water by flowing as much as possible
A common misconception is that if coolant flows too quickly through the system, that it will not have time to cool properly. However the cooling system is a closed loop, so if you are keeping the coolant in the radiator longer to allow it to cool, you are also allowing it to stay in the engine longer, which increases coolant temperatures. Coolant in the engine will actually boil away from critical heat areas within the cooling system if not forced through the cooling system at a sufficiently high velocity. This situation is a common cause of so-called "hot spots", which can lead to failures.
its also important that the radiator cap be on the low pressure side of the radiator
Years ago, cars used low pressure radiator caps with upright-style radiators. At high RPM, the water pump pressure would overcome the radiator cap's rating and force coolant out, resulting in an overheated engine. Many enthusiasts mistakenly believed that these situations were caused because the coolant was flowing through the radiator so quickly, that it did not have time to cool. Using restrictors or slowing water pump speed prevented the coolant from being forced out, and allowed the engine to run cooler. However, cars built in the past thirty years have used cross flow radiators that position the radiator cap on the low pressure (suction) side of the system. This type of system does not subject the radiator cap to pressure from the water pump, so it benefits from maximizing coolant flow, not restricting it.
people often fear engine heat...but they dont understand what a proper heat range is....
200*F~220*F is good
stock...the LS1 runs in the mid 230's and low 240's...its not a flaw... its designed that way on purpose
also...if your engine bay is getting hot....try a functional cowl hood or a hood with vents in it to allow the heat to escape....
heat comes from multiple sources under the hood...
try wrapping your exhaust....people see some pretty good drops in temperature from doing that, and often they see a small increase in performance from scavenging of exhaust by keep the heat in the pipes.
but you are way off
Fan diameter/thickness...none of that matters....
Angle of the blades and design efficiency is what makes the difference...
better fan design makes for more CFM....
after that, diameter make s a difference in total capacity, but it doe not guarantee how much it will flow without fan design.
LS1 Fbody fans only flow about 1300-1600 for the pair of them
a c5 Uprgade fan from dewitt radiator (part# SP015)(which also fits the Fbody and quite a few other vehicles as well) flows about 3200 for both fans....
we've done the fan upgrade for quite a few customers now....
it makes a big difference if the Radiator is up to the task to begin with
key words...RADIATOR UP TO THE TASK TO BEGIN WITH
the amount of tubes and the amount of fins is important...
in general...more fins and tubes equals better cooling unless they actually restrict airflow
one other thing to remember is that fan flow, really doesnt matter once you get moving....
one you are moving, the ramming of air into the radiator is far greater than what the fans can flow
just measure the wind speed created by your fans....once you go faster than that, the fans are no longer helping
beyond that speed...its more important to have a proper air dam and shroud to direct the air thru the radiator.
the thermostat does nothing except for regulate max cooling...
it opens at a set temperature, and closes back down below that temperature
You must understand that coolant temperatures also affect engine oil temperatures, and many people do not realize that more engine wear occurs when the engine oil is below 190° F. (88° C.). An effective cooling system controls the engine temperature within a specific range so that the engine operates at peak performance, safety, and long-term reliability.
its also more beneficial in keeping heat in the engine so you get enough heat in the oil to burn off any moisture....this is one of the reasons why a 160 thermostat is a bad idea usually
The 160 Thermostats were invented for and commonly used in older, open loop cooling systems where only 6 pound radiator caps were used, and low 212 degree boiling points were the limit. We know better now.
when it comes to Water pumps, more flow is better...this is a well tested fact
water is an excellent conductor of heat
its important to get as much surface contact as possible and the only way to get more contact with your limited quantity of water is to stir the pot of water by flowing as much as possible
A common misconception is that if coolant flows too quickly through the system, that it will not have time to cool properly. However the cooling system is a closed loop, so if you are keeping the coolant in the radiator longer to allow it to cool, you are also allowing it to stay in the engine longer, which increases coolant temperatures. Coolant in the engine will actually boil away from critical heat areas within the cooling system if not forced through the cooling system at a sufficiently high velocity. This situation is a common cause of so-called "hot spots", which can lead to failures.
its also important that the radiator cap be on the low pressure side of the radiator
Years ago, cars used low pressure radiator caps with upright-style radiators. At high RPM, the water pump pressure would overcome the radiator cap's rating and force coolant out, resulting in an overheated engine. Many enthusiasts mistakenly believed that these situations were caused because the coolant was flowing through the radiator so quickly, that it did not have time to cool. Using restrictors or slowing water pump speed prevented the coolant from being forced out, and allowed the engine to run cooler. However, cars built in the past thirty years have used cross flow radiators that position the radiator cap on the low pressure (suction) side of the system. This type of system does not subject the radiator cap to pressure from the water pump, so it benefits from maximizing coolant flow, not restricting it.
people often fear engine heat...but they dont understand what a proper heat range is....
200*F~220*F is good
stock...the LS1 runs in the mid 230's and low 240's...its not a flaw... its designed that way on purpose
also...if your engine bay is getting hot....try a functional cowl hood or a hood with vents in it to allow the heat to escape....
heat comes from multiple sources under the hood...
try wrapping your exhaust....people see some pretty good drops in temperature from doing that, and often they see a small increase in performance from scavenging of exhaust by keep the heat in the pipes.
10-07-2014, 10:23 PM
#17
is anyone using the DeWitt Corvette fans on a Fbody with the LT1 radiator? I've got a 383 with a mild cam and it is getting hot in stop and go traffic. I thought the LT1 radiator with stock LS1 fans would be fine, in conjunction with my Meziere street EWP. I am getting passed the half mark and sometimes reach the 3/4 mark, havent hit red yet. this is with my A/C on.
