Best Harmonic Damper - ATI, Fluidampr?
02-19-2009, 09:20 AM
#1
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Best Harmonic Damper - ATI, Fluidampr? Hey folks,
Wondering who has had success with harmonic dampers ("balancers") from ATI and Fluidampr. It's my understanding that ATI is pretty top notch, but I haven't been able to find as much info on the Fluidampr.
I'm thinking of going with the Fluidampr to save a little $$$. I'm putting together a 408 (4.030 bore/4.000 stroke) that I'm planning to spin to 7000 or so.
Any insight would be appreciated.
Wondering who has had success with harmonic dampers ("balancers") from ATI and Fluidampr. It's my understanding that ATI is pretty top notch, but I haven't been able to find as much info on the Fluidampr.
I'm thinking of going with the Fluidampr to save a little $$$. I'm putting together a 408 (4.030 bore/4.000 stroke) that I'm planning to spin to 7000 or so.
Any insight would be appreciated.
02-19-2009, 01:19 PM
#3
ATI is better than ANY fluid dampened pulley including the March I run. I think they are better than any pulley period and they are rebuildable too. They have superior damping qualities and the 10% UD weighs less than 5lbs. IIRC.
They now make a 25% UD but I understand they recomend the 10% because it dampens better
99BlancoSS was running a sale on these a while back you may wanna pm him.
They now make a 25% UD but I understand they recomend the 10% because it dampens better
99BlancoSS was running a sale on these a while back you may wanna pm him.
02-19-2009, 01:57 PM
#5
When I was looking to replace my SLP Underdrive pulley, I started looking around at pics of serious engines (like ones used in engine building competitions), and saw a lot of them were sporting ATI dampers. While not very scientific, it was enough for me to make my decision. Yes, they are more money, but they have a reputation that speaks for itself, and it is a very high quality piece IMO.
02-20-2009, 04:24 PM
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I did some reasearch on this awhile back and this is what I came up with. You don't see many people mention the Fluidampr in the LSX community. They are big in the diesel community though. ATI's are really popular here.
ATI's use several rings of rubber of various stiffness between the inner and outer shell. By using several different types of rubber they dampen vibrations at more frequencies than other dampers that just use one type of rubber.
The Fluidampr takes a completely different approach using a metal ring in a thick fluid to dampen the vibrations. The advantage of this approach is the fluid dampens more frequencies than can be covered by several types of rubber. I've read conflicting things on how effective the Fuildampr is at high RPMs (7k+), but that's not really a factor fo most of us.
I ended up buying the Fluidampr but I have yet to install it. It does look nice and I've talked to their engineers on the phone and they were nice and helpful.
ATI's use several rings of rubber of various stiffness between the inner and outer shell. By using several different types of rubber they dampen vibrations at more frequencies than other dampers that just use one type of rubber.
The Fluidampr takes a completely different approach using a metal ring in a thick fluid to dampen the vibrations. The advantage of this approach is the fluid dampens more frequencies than can be covered by several types of rubber. I've read conflicting things on how effective the Fuildampr is at high RPMs (7k+), but that's not really a factor fo most of us.
I ended up buying the Fluidampr but I have yet to install it. It does look nice and I've talked to their engineers on the phone and they were nice and helpful.
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02-21-2009, 04:48 PM
#9
I know you think I wasted my money, and if you wanted to come off like a *****, you did a fantastic job. I don't shift at 7300 like you - more like 6500-6700.
Do you have the testing equipment to really tell what's going on with engine harmonics? I certainly don't, and have no other choice but to pay attention to what top engine builders use - not just the random bits of data from unreliable sources (like you).
02-21-2009, 05:07 PM
#11
02-21-2009, 05:40 PM
#14
Ok, it's obviously not an LSx engine, but a BBC.
http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/posti...quote&p=151768
http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/posti...quote&p=151768
Originally Posted by srv601
I broke a crank in half this fall in a marine engine 496 cast steel crank w/ carrillo rods. The crank broke right behind number 2 throw - rod 1 and 2 stayed with the crank,crank chopped the bottom of the 1-2 pistons off, I am not worried about this engine, short block is shot. engine was internal balanced w/mallory last ten minutes of it's life was ran against the rev limit
7000 rpm off and on throttle thru the turns.
Ok i took what was left of the crank and harmonic damper to my balance shop for a laugh, as he did laugh. his statement was '' the only broken cranks he has had in his shop over the last few years all had the same balancer '' Yep water damper! maybe this isn't fair to them because i can miss up a anvil...
7000 rpm off and on throttle thru the turns.
Ok i took what was left of the crank and harmonic damper to my balance shop for a laugh, as he did laugh. his statement was '' the only broken cranks he has had in his shop over the last few years all had the same balancer '' Yep water damper! maybe this isn't fair to them because i can miss up a anvil...
02-21-2009, 06:51 PM
#15
so the fact that i shift 800 higher than you is not test data as you like to say.
i never said that you wasted money.
valvetrain harmonics will hurt the hp output by far more than the crank shaft harmonics
and do you have the testing equipmeant like you ask me or do you just spend more than i do and run a slower 1/4 mile
all i am saying is i will run 9's this year with a stock bottom end and a lot of peaple waste thousands of dollars on **** they dont need
and you just happen to be one of them
beleive all you read. spend all you want dont blame me when i go faster than you for half the cost
like i said a bone stock junk yard 6.2 made 825 rwhp on race gas@19 psi
for 2 years now
i know it is junk ,wont last but has been around for 2 years
i am not trying to start a war just make you fat pocket peaple realize you can make big hp with stock ****
damn if i made 130k plus a year i would buy all the stupid **** too
but i dont and i still go just as fast on my measly 65k a year
if not faster
i am done . i know how to go fast not buy fast so have fun
my data is what my time slip says every weekend
after i turned 7400 through the traps not what youre engine builder told you it said
don't chalenge me i have earned what i know not just bought what a vender suggested i buy
i never said that you wasted money.
valvetrain harmonics will hurt the hp output by far more than the crank shaft harmonics
and do you have the testing equipmeant like you ask me or do you just spend more than i do and run a slower 1/4 mile
all i am saying is i will run 9's this year with a stock bottom end and a lot of peaple waste thousands of dollars on **** they dont need
and you just happen to be one of them
beleive all you read. spend all you want dont blame me when i go faster than you for half the cost
like i said a bone stock junk yard 6.2 made 825 rwhp on race gas@19 psi
for 2 years now
i know it is junk ,wont last but has been around for 2 years
i am not trying to start a war just make you fat pocket peaple realize you can make big hp with stock ****
damn if i made 130k plus a year i would buy all the stupid **** too
but i dont and i still go just as fast on my measly 65k a year
if not faster
i am done . i know how to go fast not buy fast so have fun
my data is what my time slip says every weekend
after i turned 7400 through the traps not what youre engine builder told you it said
don't chalenge me i have earned what i know not just bought what a vender suggested i buy
If you want to blame me for your lot in life, by all means - just don't expect me to feel sorry that you don't make enough money to buy quality parts, and then troll the internet spreading your wealth of knowledge.
02-21-2009, 06:57 PM
#16
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Amen to that. I'm running an ATI as well and I don't make $65K a year. If I did I'd keep one for a spare lol. This guy asked a simple question. Not what he could do to save a few bucks and live on the edge. I'm glad to see you abuse your motor and it takes it. Alot of us wish we were so lucky.
02-22-2009, 12:18 PM
#17
what you missed is that you can do more with less.
spending less i just get tired of reading buy more spend more when you dont have too
what ever do as you will.i try to save you some cash and i get flamed
yeah i prob got 50 plus k into my 04 gto but it is my life . and when i try to help others save some money i get ripped on
do as you will
i now remember why i just read and not post
because sometimes the silent one is the wiseman among fools
spending less i just get tired of reading buy more spend more when you dont have too
what ever do as you will.i try to save you some cash and i get flamed
yeah i prob got 50 plus k into my 04 gto but it is my life . and when i try to help others save some money i get ripped on
do as you will
i now remember why i just read and not post
because sometimes the silent one is the wiseman among fools
You just have to remember a few things:
1. I don't even make $65K a year
2. If you have $50K in your GTO, you've spent way more money than me
3. Some people don't live at the drag strip trying to get that elusive 9 second slip. I enjoy my car for other reasons.
If what you want to hear is "You know man - you're right. You really are a wise man among us fools," then there you have it. But only if it makes you feel better about yourself. You were the one that originally questioned why I got rid of my SLP/Powerbond underdrive pulley in the first place.
02-22-2009, 01:52 PM
#18
what you missed is that you can do more with less.
spending less i just get tired of reading buy more spend more when you dont have too
what ever do as you will.i try to save you some cash and i get flamed
yeah i prob got 50 plus k into my 04 gto but it is my life . and when i try to help others save some money i get ripped on
do as you will
i now remember why i just read and not post
because sometimes the silent one is the wiseman among fools
spending less i just get tired of reading buy more spend more when you dont have too
what ever do as you will.i try to save you some cash and i get flamed
yeah i prob got 50 plus k into my 04 gto but it is my life . and when i try to help others save some money i get ripped on
do as you will
i now remember why i just read and not post
because sometimes the silent one is the wiseman among fools
Lastly, read the title of this thread again... "BEST HARMONIC DAMPER" not, "Where's the cheapest junk yard I can find to pick up a used old rusted balancer (which isn't even a damper)"
Have a looksie at your bearings. Money has it they're not looking too pretty.
02-22-2009, 04:19 PM
#19
it all depends on how much power you are making.
stock shortblock or 400hp or so, i say money better spent elsewhere.
you get into 500+whp and its a must.
ati told me on anything 600hp+ they dont even recommend an underdrive, to use the std version. never can be too careful.
think of it as insurance.
spending 400 might save you 4000.......
