DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

So I'm counting my 2000 Z28's 125k mile Ls1/4L60E/10 bolt down for the count.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6drFiD1s-E

It runs and drives, but I'm sure it's on it's last legs. I posted in another thread and got a lot of "I hope you didn't pay a lot for it." type responses.

So..

I need a new motor.. now to start off I guess I should say I don't know much about engine specifics beyond the concept of how they work. I've done top end work before, but I've never built an engine myself and when you talk duration lift etc. I don't really follow all that well. It's been a very slow learning curve for me on that since I've never had my hands in an engine.

At any rate, this car is a project car. The goal is to be a good reliable fun and fast street car. If it can track that's fine..but I'm not building a competition car, a dragster, or a show car necessarily.

Last year, I traded a 2007 corvette c6 auto for a 2010 gmc sierra because the car was my daily driver, and repairs of constant flat tires, the need for custom tools etc. was costing me a fortune.. but.. the performance from that car is where I'm trying to get with this one.

a 2007 c6 has what 400hp and weighs about 3300 pounds? So.. from what I've read the camaro also weighs about 3300 pounds, but with a 4 speed and a live rear axle.. I'm going to need more power than that to get that same kind of performance.

so I'm thinking 400-450whp would be a good start to get that kind of performance out of this car. suspension mods and all will follow/may come before the motor depending on how I do this.

still reading? thanks. I tend to be long winded.. anyway, so this is my HP goal, 400-450WHP from an auto tranny 2000 camaro Z28 that IS EMISSIONS LEGAL. It must pass emissions and be 100% street legal for the next 14 years. Whats more, it must pass emissions for the stock ls1 engine, so if I upgrade to a larger engine, like a 427 or something.. I need to make sure that this larger displacement engine is clean enough to have the smog of the stock ls1 in perfect health.

OK, so that's all on the table, here's my options..

I do not have the tools here at home to drop the engine and lift the car, so a shop will have to remove/replace. My idea is to either buy a crate motor (pace performance has a stock replacement ls1 complete engine for about $5k) have my existing ls1 rebuilt, considering there's no block damage from the problems it has, or buying a short block and learning to build myself in my garage.

The latter would be more fun, but spending that kind of dough on a first time project with no supervision, no assistance, and little tools could be a good way to burn through money.

What would you recommend considering all this? I want another motor/tranny that can last another 100k+ miles. I don't want a race motor that requires 100 octane and burns oil by 10k miles.

I've looked into texas speed's short blocks, I've talked to a local performance shop and I've looked at the crate motor+mods route. the minimum cost JUST FOR THE MOTOR looks like about $7-10k. That's ok in small doses, but I don't believe in credit cards, so I'll have to be stroking a check for whatever I do. The bigger the single purchase price tag, the less likely I'll be to keep my motivation of saving to buy it.

short blocks from TSP I'm seeing in the $7-8k price range easy, $10-12k if you go with a 427.

I hope this all makes sense. I know it's a LONG post. the TLDR here is that I have a running ls1 camaro that's got both feet in the grave and I have to figure out what's the best way to get what I want out of this project.

thx.

devlmaycry

iTrader: (2)

Ok, if you don't mind going iron you can get an lq4 or lq9 for dirt cheap for the numbers your are looking at spending with low miles. There's a TON of build info for these engines. Aluminum blocks add about $1000-$2000. If you get your build done a piece at a time then you can pay a shop to swap the engine and trans and do labor only that way.

Patg on the forums is the source for cam info if you can settle on an engine. The amt of HP your looking for is totally achievable for a DD, not sure about emissions, but again the experts here will chime in I'm sure.

Hope this helps!

Austinma62

I would say go for the rebuild. Yeah you might not know exactly what your doing. But its cheaper and more fun than paying someone else to do it. Just educate yourself ahead of time and try and get a friend or someone to help you out along the way. And if you need help ask on here!

Shutdown Theory

iTrader: (2)

i would tear down that ls1 and freshen up the block and build from there...you already have the biggest tool which is this forum..use the search for engine info and hell you might make a couple buddys on here that live in your area that would be willing to lend a extra pair of hands to your project, if you want to have fun and arent constrained by needing this car running quick i wouldnt go the turn key option

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

Thanks guys. I'm tryin to get my list together. I read the "so you want to go fast" thread, it was informative, but I'm not looking to dragrace or lift the front end or street race or anything like that..

I was thinking a tsp longblock (or a short but there doesn't seem to be any cost savings)

a 4L80E, looking at jakesperformance, he has "core" prices, I don't know what's the price without a core? I have a 60.. and though it shifts, it's not in perfect operating condition. 1-2 shift is like an old man getting out of his chair. It winds up and makes a fuss, does a lunge, then the other gears are fine.

a moser 12 bolt or 9" rearend

a driveshaft from ???

walboro..? fuel pump? The car needs a new sending unit I'm sure so if for any reason the tank has to come down I want to replace what's in it so it has to only come down ONCE. It'd be nice if it didn't come down until the rearend was being replaced and do that at the same time honestly.

this all sounds rather pricey lol. But I did buy a PROJECT car..

body/suspension wise my only plans are basically a stock SS appearance with some minor mods, whisler headlights, black accents (car's pewter) the umi subframe connectors, new control arms front and rear, strano springs/shocks, upgraded stock brake pads (for now, wilwoods later if I find I just have to have them..) SS brake hoses, new sway bars, that's about it really.

Unertl42

iTrader: (63)

if you are looking to do this on a budget, why not get an iron block 408? The weight gain isn't going to be that significant, especially for a street driven car. The extra cubes will help with the power, but you'll be able to maintain street manners with the extra cubes also.
I still have my stock T-56 (other than an upgraded clutch and flywheel) and 10-bolt. As Grandpa always said, "If you beat the **** out of your car, you're just beatin the **** out of your pocket book." I don't have any issues with either, but I don't take mine to the drag strip or rag the hell out of it either.
If you have any more questions, you can PM guys on here, or just keep posting. It's fun to help other people spend their $, but you'll also get other guys 1st hand experience, so you don't have to make the same mistakes that we did.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

I feel like I'd be betraying my car to take the aluminum block engine out and plop an "old truck engine" in it's place. No offense to iron block guys.. I've had the vortec 5.3s for a long time now and certainly I like the 5.3 and 6.0 engines, I feel like I'd be doing my car a dis-service to go "back" to iron after GM has had it for so long and FINALLY got away from it in these cars.

Yea, budget is an issue, but I also want to do this right. I want to be able to "set it and forget it" of sorts. very slowly blow the bank on it, then not need major repairs for 100k miles of abuse. (I don't necessarily "abuse" my cars, but.. I am an aggressive driver by nature and it needs to be able to stand up to that.)

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

so, I'm researching this some more here..

spoken with some people, done some lurking here (and some posting.. yea I'm annoying sry.)

Looks like 400-450WHP is "easy to come by" out of these motors... but.. not really.

After speaking with the guys at TSP they pretty much said.. not going to happen and still pass emissions.

I also did some reading up on the ls2/3 engines, to me they seem like the same thing, apparently not the case.. and there's chances that even these newer "cleaner" motors.. still won't pass emissions.

so.. I have to stick with an ls1 based block and all my original emissions equipment. I cannot have a CEL or an aggressive cam because it will cause the car to fail.

I DETEST emissions..... I gave up on my last ls1 swap project truck because of emissions. I was taking an old beat up 88 gmc, taking the old barely running TBI 302 out and putting in an ls1.. guys at the emissions shop said don't bother, it won't pass.

so I sold the truck for 1/10th what I paid.

anyway..

moving right along here..

my idea right now is to go with a good strong 383 ls1 aluminum bottom end, and supercharge it. this seems to be the best way to maintain stock mannerisms and emissions requirements and still have a reasonable amount of power.

trying to do research on superchargers, so far all I have found are centrifugal chargers which I do not want.

what kind of compression ratio should I be looking at for this motor? How strong dose the bottom end have to be for a blown application, and what should I be looking for in a charger?

right now i'm looking at getting a tsp 383 shortblock, or a longblock, and either using AFR heads (people have said 225 but all I see is 215 and 230? ) and I suppose.. a cam that is a good companion for forced induction systems.

lexva_58

iTrader: (1)

rebuild it and spray it....
it will pass emissions lol

PSnewbie

as far as emissions goes, as long as there isn't a sniff test it is very easy to pass, all you need is hptuners or ls1edit or such to delete the cel codes out of the computer. That way they will never get tripped and your emissions place will be none the wiser.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

I don't want to run nitrous.. ever. I don't believe in such things. (if the power's there.. it should ALWAYS be there.. ) so that's absolutely out.

still reading.. apparently there's no GOOD superchargers for this car because of hood and firewall clearance.

I do not want to fraud the emissions people and/or spend a ton of money on a motor only to hve the car not drivable at all for 14 years.

I don't understand I thought these were performance cars? How is it I can't get a reasonable mount of power?

08 vettes have 430hp stock, You can get an auto tranny on those.. and they're perfectly streetable. So why is it my 450 goal is unobtainable without boost?

rather frustrated with the research I'm coming up with.