Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like
08-17-2002, 05:11 PM
#1
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Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like Some of you may remember me, i have had severe oil burning problems since the hot cam install, well i went as far as to put the old cam back in and the problem persisted.... that all started about 7 mths ago <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
Today.... i pulled the motor and completely dissasembled it for a rebuild, the cylinder walls are in great shape, the pistons definatly show signs of blow-by so hopefully the rings are the problems completely... but what is interesting that i found is how the valves and combustion chambers looked. the exhaust valve is white, looks as tho it is running lean, along with the spark plug, but the intake valve is completely balck and carboned up with deposits all over it and the chamber.... the top of the piston looked the same as the intake valve. what would cause this, or is the exhaust valve being white normal? the plugs them self do not look to bad but did have some deposits on them, all 8 cylinders pretty much look the same.
<img src="http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bri315317/cylinderhead.jpg" alt=" - " />
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bri315...linderhead.jpg
how does it look to the experts? on a good note, with 72 k miles, the bearings looked brand new with only small stracthes, and cylinder walls are near perfect. the rings were very obviously worn, had no taper left to them, and many of them had the compression rings almost lined up! most within a 1/2 in of each other on the gaps
give me your thoughts, i know the oil was not coming from the pcv/intake.
Thanks
Brian
www.highperformancetoys.com
<small>[ August 17, 2002, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: SlowLS1 ]</small>
Today.... i pulled the motor and completely dissasembled it for a rebuild, the cylinder walls are in great shape, the pistons definatly show signs of blow-by so hopefully the rings are the problems completely... but what is interesting that i found is how the valves and combustion chambers looked. the exhaust valve is white, looks as tho it is running lean, along with the spark plug, but the intake valve is completely balck and carboned up with deposits all over it and the chamber.... the top of the piston looked the same as the intake valve. what would cause this, or is the exhaust valve being white normal? the plugs them self do not look to bad but did have some deposits on them, all 8 cylinders pretty much look the same.
<img src="http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bri315317/cylinderhead.jpg" alt=" - " />
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bri315...linderhead.jpg
how does it look to the experts? on a good note, with 72 k miles, the bearings looked brand new with only small stracthes, and cylinder walls are near perfect. the rings were very obviously worn, had no taper left to them, and many of them had the compression rings almost lined up! most within a 1/2 in of each other on the gaps
give me your thoughts, i know the oil was not coming from the pcv/intake.
Thanks
Brian
www.highperformancetoys.com
<small>[ August 17, 2002, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: SlowLS1 ]</small>
08-18-2002, 12:52 AM
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Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like i cant really answer the oil question, but heres what my valves looked like at 8K miles: <img src="http://j7.ee.pitt.edu/pictures/head3.jpg" alt=" - " />
i dont think i was running too lean.
whats going on with your one valve though? is that carbon deposits falling off, or actual dents?
i dont think i was running too lean.
whats going on with your one valve though? is that carbon deposits falling off, or actual dents?
08-18-2002, 06:58 AM
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Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like I took some heads off my 50k mile LS1 recently and it looked like yours. I wouldnt worry about it....all the LS1 heads I've removed looked somewhat like that..white exhaust valves, black deposits everywhere else. Yours have a bit more black stuff than most, but at 72k miles thats probably to be expected.
08-18-2002, 07:16 AM
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Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like Just pulled my heads on Friday. The engine had around 65K miles on it. Similar look with both the piston tops and the valves and combustion chambers. Definitely less carbon on the intake valves and combustion chambers. But then mine had no oil problems (a 1998 for what its worth).
08-18-2002, 08:05 AM
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Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like My heads looked similar at 10,000 miles, the white exhaust valves are showing heat of lean mixture, and carbon with some oil is from idling with aftermarket cam.Missfires carbon up chambers at idle and oil control of rings when there is a missfire is reduced. These are not big problems but extreme lean condition under power, can cause exh. valve pitting, this affects valve sealing.Raising idle speed will help with carbon buildup and advancing ignition timing also at idle will help reduce this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
08-18-2002, 08:29 AM
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Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like SlowLS1, what are you doing as part of your rebuild? And if you are having any machining done who will you be using in Knoxville?
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08-18-2002, 04:15 PM
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Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like So everyone agrees that the white exhaust valve is "normal" for the ls1...?
the intake valves was completely loaded with carbon, I cleaned the heads up today and the valves actually look ok after cleaning with a wire brush on a die grinder, i thought i was never gonna get that white buildup off the exhaust valves!
all eight cylinders were the same, no valves looked like it had burnt edges, all piston tops were smooth as silk after cleaning the carbon off, no signs of detonation on the piston... however one did have a impression of a valve in it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> not sure how that happened, but i will pull all the valves and check them and lap the seats...
how do you check for excessive wear in the valve guides? anthing else i should look at on the heads for wear?
i'm not going to do any port or polish on them....but would it help anything to make the combustion chambers "smooth" instead of the rough texture that it has?
BB, i have a machine shop up in rutledge that is gonna hone the block and check the tolerances on the crank and rods.
this rebuild is just gonna be new rings and bearings and put it back together, funds do not allow anything else at this time
the intake valves was completely loaded with carbon, I cleaned the heads up today and the valves actually look ok after cleaning with a wire brush on a die grinder, i thought i was never gonna get that white buildup off the exhaust valves!
all eight cylinders were the same, no valves looked like it had burnt edges, all piston tops were smooth as silk after cleaning the carbon off, no signs of detonation on the piston... however one did have a impression of a valve in it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> not sure how that happened, but i will pull all the valves and check them and lap the seats...
how do you check for excessive wear in the valve guides? anthing else i should look at on the heads for wear?
i'm not going to do any port or polish on them....but would it help anything to make the combustion chambers "smooth" instead of the rough texture that it has?
BB, i have a machine shop up in rutledge that is gonna hone the block and check the tolerances on the crank and rods.
this rebuild is just gonna be new rings and bearings and put it back together, funds do not allow anything else at this time
08-18-2002, 04:39 PM
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Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like <img src="http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0NAAyPvYQMKWAQyusDSi8K0SX97mUs!PqHVGrdgnyz7lT4LGPR YKIC9lVL4!4s9C43jEjF7vs!jZoNR4LPfKBZA/Pict00140.JPG" alt=" - " />
35,000 miles off of stock everything. I'm not sure about your valves. I would still try to get some opinnions.
It looks like you have pits on then valves, like detanation.
<small>[ August 18, 2002, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: 2000 Camaro SS ]</small>
35,000 miles off of stock everything. I'm not sure about your valves. I would still try to get some opinnions.
It looks like you have pits on then valves, like detanation.
<small>[ August 18, 2002, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: 2000 Camaro SS ]</small>
08-18-2002, 05:17 PM
#10
Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like My heads have been off 3 times (trying to find a ticking problem <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) since my cam install. My heads looked the same as yours.
When I pulled my stock heads, from my totally <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> stock car (w/ bolt-ons and a 918 valvetrain) my heads looked like 2000 Camaro SS.
When I pulled my stock heads, from my totally <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> stock car (w/ bolt-ons and a 918 valvetrain) my heads looked like 2000 Camaro SS.
08-18-2002, 05:46 PM
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Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like it may have been detonating, with all the oil it was drinking, easily a quart during a day at the track
Wizkid is familiar with the battle that i have been having with the car.
i'm still concerned about the exhaust valve, i am seeing mixed answers, anybody else?
Wizkid is familiar with the battle that i have been having with the car.
i'm still concerned about the exhaust valve, i am seeing mixed answers, anybody else?
08-18-2002, 06:10 PM
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Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like I would say you were running pretty lean by the look of the exhaust valves and the spark plugs. They look realy white. They should be a light brown color, kinda like toasted bread. Are they stock heat range plugs? Looks like the deposits on the intake valve are from burning excessive oil. None of this really makes any difference now though since your rebuilding it. After you get it back together I would try to get it on ATap or have the dealer scan it to make sure your O2's are in line. About the inprint on the valve, it might have come from a stuck lifter a high RPM. I would have your machine shop check the lifters and also check your spring pressures. Also, I would definatly check your pushrods making sure they're not bent. Hope this helps you out a little bit.
Chris
Chris
08-18-2002, 06:28 PM
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Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like I've saw SBC and SBF heads look similar. The exhaust valve runs a lot hotter and burns off the carbon. I've heard that if you run very rich that the fuel will wash the cylinder wall and ruin the ring seal. This may be what happened to yours. What kind of gas did you use?
08-18-2002, 06:32 PM
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Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like CW, yes, they are stock heat range, tr-55's
if it was really lean, wouldn't the intake valve also show signs of it also? the exhaust valve was more of a tannish color, kind of hard to tell in the pic, the flash on the camera seems to have make it look very white, however the plug looked like it was very clean, however there was no sign of Detonation, no flaking,metal specs, or craking like i have seen in the past when it was running lean...
as for the mark on the piston, i believe that it has been there for some time now, i did not even find it until i cleaned the pistons up, it was covered in carbon buildup, the motor has been running very dirty with all the oil going thru it. When i get it back up and running, hopefully i wil be able to get it on ATAP.
if it was really lean, wouldn't the intake valve also show signs of it also? the exhaust valve was more of a tannish color, kind of hard to tell in the pic, the flash on the camera seems to have make it look very white, however the plug looked like it was very clean, however there was no sign of Detonation, no flaking,metal specs, or craking like i have seen in the past when it was running lean...
as for the mark on the piston, i believe that it has been there for some time now, i did not even find it until i cleaned the pistons up, it was covered in carbon buildup, the motor has been running very dirty with all the oil going thru it. When i get it back up and running, hopefully i wil be able to get it on ATAP.
08-18-2002, 06:41 PM
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Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like Hey Jeremy, how you doing man!
Right now our assumtions as to what happened are as follows:
1 the hot cam made the car run very rich intially washing the cylinders
2 the rings were ready to go anyways, and the added cylinder pressure from the hotcam, finished the job for it
3 the hotcam could have been possibly ground out of time Longshot, but i won't put that cam back in just in case
4 the car may have gotten to hot to quick while filling with Antifreeze taking the tensile strength out of the oil scrapers after the cam install
which ever it was, it happened immedeatily after the header and cam install, the motor was fine untill then with no smoking , or oil consumption.
have always run 93 in it, every once in a while some 110 race fuel
You should drop by Tony's shop sometime and get to see a trans am that has gone to pieces, litteraly Haha it's scattered everywheres,pulled it from the bottom
Right now our assumtions as to what happened are as follows:
1 the hot cam made the car run very rich intially washing the cylinders
2 the rings were ready to go anyways, and the added cylinder pressure from the hotcam, finished the job for it
3 the hotcam could have been possibly ground out of time Longshot, but i won't put that cam back in just in case
4 the car may have gotten to hot to quick while filling with Antifreeze taking the tensile strength out of the oil scrapers after the cam install
which ever it was, it happened immedeatily after the header and cam install, the motor was fine untill then with no smoking , or oil consumption.
have always run 93 in it, every once in a while some 110 race fuel
You should drop by Tony's shop sometime and get to see a trans am that has gone to pieces, litteraly Haha it's scattered everywheres,pulled it from the bottom
08-19-2002, 06:31 AM
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Re: Pulled cylinder heads and this is what it looked like I may try to stop by and see it before you put it back together. You think you might sell that cam? I know someone who might be interested. <img border="0" alt="[Firebird]" title="" src="graemlins/formula.gif" />
