2001CamaroGuy

iTrader: (6)

I'm going to be building a motor for my daily driver and want to know which would be the best all around street/road race N/A motor (shooting for ~500rwhp w/ 6600 max RPM).

All three motor combinations will have:

- MTI re-sleeved LS6 block with 4.125" bore
- forged 4.125" bore pistons


Diffences.....

388 all bore:

- stock crank
- 6.250" Eagle forged rods


427:

- Callies 4" stroke forged crank
- 6.125" Eagle forged rods

441:

- Callies 4.125" stroke forged crank
- 6.125" Eagle forged rods

Visceral

iTrader: (1)

well, while I havent driven a 427 Camaro, I do own a 388. Let me explain why I think the extra 2200 or so is money very well spent on a daily driver to buy the 427.

First off, the 388 I have is amazing. It is the fastest car Ive ever owned, and keeping it civilized during breakin is really a massive undertaking self-discipline wise. MTI built a hell of a motor for me and I am incredibly satisfied.

I would spend the extra 2200$ because the 427 would surpass the 388 as a daily driver in the following ways;

a) You could run a cam without insane ramp rates and the car will be extremely civilized and the valvetrain will not sound nearly like a sewing machine. Putting in for instance a 232/236 on a 112 or similar (R1) shouldnt sound particularly obnoxious.

b) the torque of the 427 is totally daily driver addictive. I giggle like a child on a sugar high when I wind my car up past 4500. It makes a hell of a racket and some time soon a cop is going to hear me. I'd love to be able to get that kind of response at 2500-4500 rpm.

c) There is nothing cooler than a honest, real 427 Camaro. Period. Im not a badge guy, but when I do swap out the crank in my engine (and yeah, it wont be more than a year or two I hope) Im going to put the old 427 badges on the front fenders, or the SS scoop.

I dont think the 441 is much more powerful than the 427, and it wouldnt be a 427. Thats enough reason to avoid it for me

chris

chevydan

iTrader: (4)

Visceral what did u put down on the dyno? Just wondering hoping to do a all bore next year

2001CamaroGuy

iTrader: (6)

if I go with the 427 I WILL be doing the old school 427 badges on the fenders......

then thought I would get the Z series hood to make it total .....

Colonel

I'd take the 441. The extra cubes would make the idle really smooth at only 500 RWHP (you could use a moderate cam with a fairly wide LSA.) I'm assuming a set of finely ported stage III LS6 heads. Drivability would be excellent. It's also not so much stroke that 6600 would be a problem at all. If you were wanting 7500 RPM or more I might say go with the 4" stroke.

Visceral

iTrader: (1)

I have to wait to dyno until
a) I have tuning
b) I have a broken in motor
c) I have a clutch that holds

And at the rate that the summer is ending around here, that may not be for awhile.

I do know this... If its powerful enough on a 346ci tune to blow thorugh this clutch during a 4th gear only run to 5000 rpm, its going to make nice numbers (someday)

chris

robertbartsch

Viseral:
Any chance you and JMX will soon finish the documentory on the long-block F-Body swap?

Many here would like to tackle the same project at home and your write up would be a BIG help!

...so you blew through your stock clutch before the motor is broken-in? ...wow!

...your motor is an all stroke engine; right ?

Visceral

iTrader: (1)

All-bore. 4.125 bore and stock stroke (3.622)

Its not a stock clutch...its a 02 Z06 clutch that I hoped would hold up to normal non-dragstrip fun driving.

Its going to be a little bit before we get the Engine swap how-to done... tooooooo many things going on for either of us.

chris

2001CamaroGuy

iTrader: (6)

I really don't want to spin past 6600-6800.....I want this motor to last a long time

The heads are fully ported stage 3 (2.08"/1.60" valve) LS1 heads with a 0.020" mill to make a 60cc chamber....they flowed ~280cfm with an LS1 intake ....so I figure they should work really well (I hope) on whatever motor I build...


How "big" of a cam "should" I go with on this motor? My Z has a M6 with 3.73s. I want something that is equivalent to the drivability of the TR230/224 111LSA on a 346 (LOPE = hot rod).



Do I gain that much my doing a solid roller over getting some Comp R hydraulic lifters? I don't really mind doing valve lash every 6 months/oil change if it gains me more hp and drivability. ~500rwhp was the minimum.....the more I can get, the happier I will be....

FASST

The advantage of a solid roller is the increased rpm you can spin to. If you want to keep the redline/shift points at 6600-6800, you won't see much of an advantage with a solid roller setup.

As for cam, I like a 246-242 (lift at whatever your heads flowed 280 at with a 112lsa for the 427. Slightly smaller for a 388 all-bore. If you use a 441...well, sky's the limit. Try a 25x/25x just for ***** and giggles

Linear Velocity

iTrader: (1)

I have a 388 all bore, I can drive it daily although I use my Blaer to commute to work and back. See the numbers in my sig, I take long drives on the weekends ranging from 50-100 miles with no problems whatsoever. Torque is a great thing for a the track with slicks and suspension setup, it can actually work against you though on the street since you really don't have a decent tire. I would go with the 388, it will be cheaper, get better gas mileage, make 500rwhp and plenty (not too much) torque for the street. Just my .02

50ETR

Plus you can spray the 388 all bore with forged internals and make much more than 500rwhp for cheaper than the extra 2200 for the 427! My .02 cents

chevydan

iTrader: (4)

Linear velocity
What are your specs on the cam and what heads are you using?
Thanks for your info

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

Id say go with the all-bore motor if you plan on road racing it. Simply becasue that bigger crank is gona give you hella tq and its gona be hard to keep it in check when your shooting out of a turn if your not running anything less than a full road race tire. After someone gets a new intake out, 500 at the wheels on a bore motor wont be a problem.

Slow Z28

iTrader: (19)

What are the DISADVANTAGES to building a 441?

Chris

2001CamaroGuy

iTrader: (6)

Not that I have the money, but would a sheet metal intake be a "good" thing on a big bore motor?

I know they are supposed to be a big no no for 346s (too much flow...no low end...) but what about 388+ CI motors?

verbs

I say 441 ci motor...once the lsx intake and AFR heads come out, those extra cubes will really make a difference.

2001CamaroGuy

iTrader: (6)

AFR?

Linear Velocity

iTrader: (1)

ChevyDan: I have a pretty mild cam 230/236 .595/.598 114 lsa cam and Stage III 5.7 heads (337 cfm @ .600 on the intake), very steetable and made awesome power.

2001CamaroGuy: FMS has a custom sheet metal intake on their solid roller 346 and gained 20rwhp and lost no toqrue, so I think that all motors will benefit from sheetmetal intakes that can be port matched. Unfortunately since they are all "custom" at this point cost is still a major factor. AFR is a top of the line head porting company for LT1's and I believe SBC's, some specualte that their LS1 heads will be the best thing since sliced bread, we'll have to wait on see.

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

Air Flow Research.

I have been waiting ALL to long for them to start making LS1 heads. Rumor mill is saying that they are making 300cfm @ .600 on thier test heads.