Turbo Experts - Plan my build......69 Camaro LS
12-24-2011, 09:31 AM
#1
Turbo Experts - Plan my build......69 Camaro LS Hey guys, since I am totally turbo illiterate, I was hoping you guys could chime in based on my current set up and plan a build to suit my goals.
Build is based on a 1969 Camaro with a 2000 LS1 that is currently fitted with SLP stage III heads, cam, LS6 intake, 36# injectors, roll master chain, 2,800 street fighter TCI converter, built 4L60E trans, 3.5" shaft, and 9" Ford axle with 3.5 gears. Currently a stock throttle body drive by cable and 98 Camaro LS1 computer. I am using a 97 Corvette fuel rail and a 1996 Impala SS plastic fuel tank and stock style 96 impala in-tank pump and factory nylon feed and return lines.
The car currently makes 377 rwhp and is a pleasure to drive. GREAT care was taken to fit the LS into the engine bay as a jewel box so that it is neat, clean, and fresh. It is running F body brackets with a Sanden a/c comp tucked low and power brakes from a 2004 GTO with Vintage a/c hidden under the dash with cruise control also hidden and a VW wiper mod to keep the firewall clean.
Goal: I want to be able to hear the turbo(s) and have reliable clean fully streetable (a/c - cruise control...etc) power that doesn't take away from the pleasure of a cruise to and from work. I want to have ridiculous power, but not at the cost of the car becoming tricky to drive.
It has to L@@K cool under the hood and fit in smooth and nice. Fit and finish of the build is AS important as the performance. Since the car spends most of the time obeying the law with occasional strip use...this is about putting a smile on my face when I squeeze the throttle and hear/feel the turbo(s) going to work.
I want to use as many of my current parts as possible - sky is not the limit on the $$$$$$ I do all my own work possible, and need to be considering something that I can mostly assembly on my own except any machine work and computer tuning.
So...tell me, what do I need to plan on - what parts should I use...HOW do we cram this under the hood in the pics below?????
Build is based on a 1969 Camaro with a 2000 LS1 that is currently fitted with SLP stage III heads, cam, LS6 intake, 36# injectors, roll master chain, 2,800 street fighter TCI converter, built 4L60E trans, 3.5" shaft, and 9" Ford axle with 3.5 gears. Currently a stock throttle body drive by cable and 98 Camaro LS1 computer. I am using a 97 Corvette fuel rail and a 1996 Impala SS plastic fuel tank and stock style 96 impala in-tank pump and factory nylon feed and return lines.
The car currently makes 377 rwhp and is a pleasure to drive. GREAT care was taken to fit the LS into the engine bay as a jewel box so that it is neat, clean, and fresh. It is running F body brackets with a Sanden a/c comp tucked low and power brakes from a 2004 GTO with Vintage a/c hidden under the dash with cruise control also hidden and a VW wiper mod to keep the firewall clean.
Goal: I want to be able to hear the turbo(s) and have reliable clean fully streetable (a/c - cruise control...etc) power that doesn't take away from the pleasure of a cruise to and from work. I want to have ridiculous power, but not at the cost of the car becoming tricky to drive.
It has to L@@K cool under the hood and fit in smooth and nice. Fit and finish of the build is AS important as the performance. Since the car spends most of the time obeying the law with occasional strip use...this is about putting a smile on my face when I squeeze the throttle and hear/feel the turbo(s) going to work.
I want to use as many of my current parts as possible - sky is not the limit on the $$$$$$ I do all my own work possible, and need to be considering something that I can mostly assembly on my own except any machine work and computer tuning.
So...tell me, what do I need to plan on - what parts should I use...HOW do we cram this under the hood in the pics below?????
12-24-2011, 10:39 AM
#2
The easiest way would be a set of flipped truck manifolds with v bands welded on to changed the outlet direction a little. They do stick up close to the valve cover and coils would have to be relocated. It frees up a bunch of room for down pipes. You could either run a single or twins.
I could build a kit for you if your interested as well. A set of custom headers could be built too if the flipped manifolds are not clean enough for you.
Sent you a pm too.
I could build a kit for you if your interested as well. A set of custom headers could be built too if the flipped manifolds are not clean enough for you.
Sent you a pm too.
12-24-2011, 12:53 PM
#5
The easiest way would be a set of flipped truck manifolds with v bands welded on to changed the outlet direction a little. They do stick up close to the valve cover and coils would have to be relocated. It frees up a bunch of room for down pipes. You could either run a single or twins.
I could build a kit for you if your interested as well. A set of custom headers could be built too if the flipped manifolds are not clean enough for you.
Sent you a pm too.
I could build a kit for you if your interested as well. A set of custom headers could be built too if the flipped manifolds are not clean enough for you.
Sent you a pm too.
Hey Badge - your opinion does not fall on deaf ears. I am very happy with the car and enjoy it as is. It is fast, clean, reliable...and fun. It was a plan that came together on a shoe string budget far above my expectations. It is hard to mess with a good thing...Don't fix it...if it isn't broke. I hear you, and it is a hard decision.
Nova...My engine sits way forward on a set of Brewer Performance motor mounts - you think the plumbing on twins could fit in there? Intercooler?
Now...on the engine, pistons? cam? etc. etc???????
I'm on a good stock bore
12-24-2011, 01:18 PM
#6
I like the idea of turbocharging your beautiful '69 Camaro and thought I would throw out some ideas.
We have a budget style manifold setup that we have used on a first generation Camaro with good results that would be a nice, less expensive way to go, or we can supply you with the parts to do about any direction you may choose if you desire.
The single setup we did used a thick, custom 3/16ths steel manifold on the passenger setup with a T4 turbo flange (the size you would want in a single setup) and uses a stock style manifold on the drivers side with a crossover tube running underneath the trans bellhousing area and running into the back of the custom turbo manifold. This works well with situations with limited room up front such as the first generation Camaros. Then you would run your own piping from the turbo to the intercooler out front and from the intercooler back to the throttle body. You could even lay it out so it still looks the same as it does now with the intake pipe routing under the hood.
A basic, inexpensive intercooler setup would do the job fine and has been proven time and time again, so no reason to get too exotic there. You could go non-intercooled for simplicity but you would want to keep the boost low to be real safe and enjoyable and the power output would obviously be lower.
A 38-44mm wastegate and a 50mm blow-off valve would round out the turbo related parts. Tial, Turbosmart and Turbonetics all make top quality pieces for this.
60# Mototron injectors are the normal style for this type of setup and will drop in place and are easy to tune for any talented tuner once the boost setup is complete.
Modifying the sending unit some to fit a single Bosch "044" fuel pump in your tank would satisfy your fuel requirements up to around 700hp at the wheels.
You could also do a twin turbo setup for more eye candy utilizing some custom built turbo headers/ manifolds and two smaller t3/t4 hybrid or even small t4 turbos. You would want 2-38mm wastegates then and a single blow-off valve would work fine. The rest of the parts list would be the same.
I included an unfinished pic of one of our customers 67 camaro with the manifold setup with the crossover pipe underneath. You can see how clean and unseen the main hot-piping is and this just leaves the intercooler piping left to place carefully to keep the look clean.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Randy@YatesEFI.com
563.514.1642
We have a budget style manifold setup that we have used on a first generation Camaro with good results that would be a nice, less expensive way to go, or we can supply you with the parts to do about any direction you may choose if you desire.
The single setup we did used a thick, custom 3/16ths steel manifold on the passenger setup with a T4 turbo flange (the size you would want in a single setup) and uses a stock style manifold on the drivers side with a crossover tube running underneath the trans bellhousing area and running into the back of the custom turbo manifold. This works well with situations with limited room up front such as the first generation Camaros. Then you would run your own piping from the turbo to the intercooler out front and from the intercooler back to the throttle body. You could even lay it out so it still looks the same as it does now with the intake pipe routing under the hood.
A basic, inexpensive intercooler setup would do the job fine and has been proven time and time again, so no reason to get too exotic there. You could go non-intercooled for simplicity but you would want to keep the boost low to be real safe and enjoyable and the power output would obviously be lower.
A 38-44mm wastegate and a 50mm blow-off valve would round out the turbo related parts. Tial, Turbosmart and Turbonetics all make top quality pieces for this.
60# Mototron injectors are the normal style for this type of setup and will drop in place and are easy to tune for any talented tuner once the boost setup is complete.
Modifying the sending unit some to fit a single Bosch "044" fuel pump in your tank would satisfy your fuel requirements up to around 700hp at the wheels.
You could also do a twin turbo setup for more eye candy utilizing some custom built turbo headers/ manifolds and two smaller t3/t4 hybrid or even small t4 turbos. You would want 2-38mm wastegates then and a single blow-off valve would work fine. The rest of the parts list would be the same.
I included an unfinished pic of one of our customers 67 camaro with the manifold setup with the crossover pipe underneath. You can see how clean and unseen the main hot-piping is and this just leaves the intercooler piping left to place carefully to keep the look clean.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Randy@YatesEFI.com
563.514.1642
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12-25-2011, 07:32 AM
#9
When I built this car I came across the engine on the cheap. It has a spun rod. I bought a crank kit, new rings, performance oil pump, chain...then the SLP head/cam kit with new OEM gaskets and TTY bolts.
In other words, pistons are stock.
I assume I would need to put better pistons in and drop the compression to do this right. I like the idea of twins for the eye candy and balance under the hood, but I also love the pic above of that 67 on the single.
With that said....what kind of DYI kit would I be looking at and how far would that take me in terms of turn key results????
12-26-2011, 11:04 AM
#12
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in the process of doing the same to my 68 ls nova . i have a guy that is building my hot side setup for a single for me right know. it is all stainless and all hand built. he is making a few of them based off my nova now. and a nova is the same as your camaro. mine should be done in about 2 weeks or so. you dont want to put some rusty manifolds on that nice car they look ugly and thats all u see on our cars. pm me if intrested im lacated near u i think cause i have seen your car a coupple times.
12-26-2011, 03:18 PM
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Goal: I want to be able to hear the turbo(s) and have reliable clean fully streetable (a/c - cruise control...etc) power that doesn't take away from the pleasure of a cruise to and from work. I want to have ridiculous power, but not at the cost of the car becoming tricky to drive.
I think a polished D1SC Procharger mounted on a polished Corvette bracket would be simpler to install, possibly cheaper, and would compliment that engine bay very nicely. Not to mention being a "SC" (self contained) you wouldnt have to tap the pan for oil feeds like you would with a turbo.
Reading your goals.... reliable, clean, keeping a/c, and being a breeze to drive the Procharger fits the bill. Oh.. and you cant forget the sweet music a Procharger makes!
12-26-2011, 05:40 PM
#14
Are you open to doing a Procharger on the car?
I think a polished D1SC Procharger mounted on a polished Corvette bracket would be simpler to install, possibly cheaper, and would compliment that engine bay very nicely. Not to mention being a "SC" (self contained) you wouldnt have to tap the pan for oil feeds like you would with a turbo.
Reading your goals.... reliable, clean, keeping a/c, and being a breeze to drive the Procharger fits the bill. Oh.. and you cant forget the sweet music a Procharger makes!
I think a polished D1SC Procharger mounted on a polished Corvette bracket would be simpler to install, possibly cheaper, and would compliment that engine bay very nicely. Not to mention being a "SC" (self contained) you wouldnt have to tap the pan for oil feeds like you would with a turbo.
Reading your goals.... reliable, clean, keeping a/c, and being a breeze to drive the Procharger fits the bill. Oh.. and you cant forget the sweet music a Procharger makes!
But - you said something interesting. I am running F body brackets - are you saying the Corvette bracket/mount will work with this?
12-26-2011, 05:56 PM
#15
Yes and no. It would get the job done, and they sound super cool, but the turbo simply intrigues me for other reasons. Otherwise, the sc is the way to go for every reason you mentioned and more.
But - you said something interesting. I am running F body brackets - are you saying the Corvette bracket/mount will work with this?
But - you said something interesting. I am running F body brackets - are you saying the Corvette bracket/mount will work with this?
12-26-2011, 06:38 PM
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Yes and no. It would get the job done, and they sound super cool, but the turbo simply intrigues me for other reasons. Otherwise, the sc is the way to go for every reason you mentioned and more.
But - you said something interesting. I am running F body brackets - are you saying the Corvette bracket/mount will work with this?
But - you said something interesting. I am running F body brackets - are you saying the Corvette bracket/mount will work with this?
You sure could run the Vette bracket... I dont even think you need to move any accessories... in the F-body its just a matter of room, or not enough of it. I believe the only difference in accessories from the Vette LS1 to F-body LS1 is the alternator and PS location, which neither is affected when using a Procharger.
*edit*
Heres a illustration of both right next to each other.
http://www.fpartssalvage.com/tech.htm
