Street Racing & Kill Stories - ZL1 vs. GT500 Insideline (Bittersweet)




CyberGrey Z28
06-12-2012, 02:25 AM
1/4 mile

GT500 11.9@123mph
ZL1 12.4@116mph

60-0 Braking

GT500 109ft
ZL1 110ft

Skid Pad:

GT500 .98 G's
ZL1 1.03 G's


"Shelby is the much quicker accelerating car...the Camaro however has it covered in the handling department, NO CONTEST!"

http://youtu.be/Viwp4RuwuYw


Interesting numbers at our home track w/shitty DA.


DoggyB22
06-12-2012, 02:34 AM
1/4 mile times.... :eyes:

odthetruth
06-12-2012, 02:36 AM
I figured this. If you look at the list of cars the ZL1 has beat around the Nurburgring... you'll see they spent way too much time at the road course, and not enough IMO at the strip. Its not a slouch by any means...

HOWEVER, IN MY OPINION

GM needs to figure out what they want their cars to be, and then go at it. Treating the Camaro the same way they treat the CTS-V is killing them. When it comes down to Camaro, fewer people are looking at how great it handles, and more are looking at how it does in a 1/4. Being half a second slower at the end of the day is no great feat.


DoggyB22
06-12-2012, 02:54 AM
I figured this. If you look at the list of cars the ZL1 has beat around the Nurburgring... you'll see they spent way too much time at the road course, and not enough IMO at the strip. Its not a slouch by any means...

HOWEVER, IN MY OPINION

GM needs to figure out what they want their cars to be, and then go at it. Treating the Camaro the same way they treat the CTS-V is killing them. When it comes down to Camaro, fewer people are looking at how great it handles, and more are looking at how it does in a 1/4. Being half a second slower at the end of the day is no great feat.

Well Edmunds 1/4 mile times are ALWAYS slower then they should be. Also if you go back to promotional videos of the ZL1 GM wanted the Camaro ZL1 to be based more on the track then 1/4 mile. So... Its a car that does good in both but it does better in road courses. They just need to change the s/c & lower the damn weight & it be a KILLER car!

CyberGrey Z28
06-12-2012, 02:55 AM
^^I agree. I would take the underrated and luxurious CTS-V(V2) over the ZL1 at this point. Looks like GM needs to loosen up w/the warranty risk factor, increase boost and put the 5th gen on a diet.

I guess I was correct in being skeptical of the GT500 out-handling a C6Z06. :angel:

41863nj
06-12-2012, 03:32 AM
i agree with both DOGGYB22 and CYBERGREY Z28...a diet would be awesome, please call jenny craig...it out weigh's the GTR...shit that's a heavy car...1/4 times are off as well...MOTOR TREND GOT A 12.1@117.4...CAR & DRIVER GOT A 12.3@119MPH...i heard that evan smith ran one with DR's and had gotten a 11.8-11.9...i believe that the shelby can do better then 11.9...evan got a 11.8 hot lapping it...so far the best i heard was a 11.6...i really love the ZL1, just wanted a little more in a straight line is all.

HioSSilver
06-12-2012, 07:00 AM
No real surprises here.

MeentSS02
06-12-2012, 07:11 AM
That is sweet...I love that it can outhandle the GT500 in the twisties. ZL1 owners can finally use the same excuse that ricers have been using for years after they get drug down the road.

Awesome.

ohioborn80
06-12-2012, 07:11 AM
i agree with both DOGGYB22 and CYBERGREY Z28...a diet would be awesome, please call jenny craig...it out weigh's the GTR...shit that's a heavy car...1/4 times are off as well...MOTOR TREND GOT A 12.1@117.4...CAR & DRIVER GOT A 12.3@119MPH...i heard that evan smith ran one with DR's and had gotten a 11.8-11.9...i believe that the shelby can do better then 11.9...evan got a 11.8 hot lapping it...so far the best i heard was a 11.6...i really love the ZL1, just wanted a little more in a straight line is all.

It was motortrend that got 11.6@125 for the GT500. Seems like personal owners are just Modding them though. Not worried about what it does stock.

Nick V.
06-12-2012, 07:22 AM
huh. i figured they wouldve done better. ive only seen one zl1 and it ran 12.5

HioSSilver
06-12-2012, 07:51 AM
The odd part is that the GT500 makes 80hp more, weighs 300lb less and there is only a .5 difference. The difference should be closer to a full second. The 300lb alone should've got it .3.

ohioborn80
06-12-2012, 07:59 AM
The odd part is that the GT500 makes 80hp more, weighs 300lb less and there is only a .5 difference. The difference should be closer to a full second. The 300lb alone should've got it .3.

Manual to auto. The auto zl1 has posted the best times. But. 5 is still a big difference. And the 6mph trap also. I mean usually that all you worry about.

big hammer
06-12-2012, 08:20 AM
Manual to auto. The auto zl1 has posted the best times. But. 5 is still a big difference. And the 6mph trap also. I mean usually that all you worry about.

the manual has actually posted the best times. 12.02 @ 117. this isn't including gm's 11 sec pass.

big hammer
06-12-2012, 08:20 AM
i find both 1\4 mile times disappointing for the hp.

HioSSilver
06-12-2012, 08:32 AM
Manual to auto. The auto zl1 has posted the best times. But. 5 is still a big difference. And the 6mph trap also. I mean usually that all you worry about.

Ive always liked trapp speeds, your the one that flip flops back and forth to whichever one benefits you the most. Now with that said I don't mean a 13.0 120 car, have a little sense about it.

Beans
06-12-2012, 08:49 AM
That is sweet...I love that it can outhandle the GT500 in the twisties. ZL1 owners can finally use the same excuse that ricers have been using for years after they get drug down the road.

Awesome.

I'm glad you said it.

In 99% of real world races by private owners, the ZL1 will have its hands full with a Boss, never mind a GT500.

stockz
06-12-2012, 08:59 AM
odthetruth, is correct, GM Please Learn SOMETHING FOR ONCE! Figure out what your car is suppose to be then do it, Ford got it right, Kudos. IMO why would you even compare the two cars, the camaro is not in the same league and is still a heavy POS and Ugly too. the prototype was sweet till they spliced the darn thing with a 67 rear end but that's my opinion. I wish GM would listen to there BUYERS for once their existence. All that motor the car is still a PIG. GM can put a dress on a pig but its still a PIG. :bang:

zz4camaro1980
06-12-2012, 09:06 AM
I figured this. If you look at the list of cars the ZL1 has beat around the Nurburgring... you'll see they spent way too much time at the road course, and not enough IMO at the strip. Its not a slouch by any means...

HOWEVER, IN MY OPINION

GM needs to figure out what they want their cars to be, and then go at it. Treating the Camaro the same way they treat the CTS-V is killing them. When it comes down to Camaro, fewer people are looking at how great it handles, and more are looking at how it does in a 1/4. Being half a second slower at the end of the day is no great feat.

Didnt GM say this car is ready for any road race circuit right off the showroom floor? I think they did figure out what they wanted to do and accomplished it... "the Camaro however has it covered in the handling department, NO CONTEST!"

As much as everyone here would like it to be (1/4 mile oriented), its not a one trick pony.


That is sweet...I love that it can outhandle the GT500 in the twisties. ZL1 owners can finally use the same excuse that ricers have been using for years after they get drug down the road.

Awesome.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but Ive never heard a ricer say that they can smoke me through the twisties after I smoke them in a straight line...

evangto87
06-12-2012, 09:08 AM
not for nothing guys... but all these car "testers" (motortrend, car and driver, edmunds) all are sallys behind the wheel. The zl1 is the much easier to car drive do to its launch control and technology. The GT500 requires much more drag racing experience to drive it. I think you will find that both cars on drag radial with good drivers.... the ET gap will grow passed a half a second. Ive seen 11.4 at 126 out of the gt500 so far and 11.9 at 116 out of the zl1. If anyone here knows anything about drag racing, you would know that 11.4 at 126 is mediocre driving at best. And 11.9 at 116 is actually fairly efficient. Just saying

MeentSS02
06-12-2012, 09:08 AM
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but Ive never heard a ricer say that they can smoke me through the twisties after I smoke them in a straight line...

You might need to race some more ricers, because I've definitely heard it.

marc97taws6
06-12-2012, 09:32 AM
I'm still disappointed in their times for the ZL1 when C&D managed a 12.2@119 with the heavier CTS-V

F8L BYT
06-12-2012, 09:34 AM
Love how they say that the ZL1 has the gt500 covered in the handling department after this test lol... I'll wait until I see a video of them on a road course and not a parking lot with cones set up and going in a circle and slalom.

Both cars are awesome and I'm glad they are battling again like the old muscle car wars. The problem now days is that the mustang will always be better than the camaro as far as performance goes in the long run because GM cannot produce a pony car that is better than the vette. The mustang is the so to speak top of the line performance car for ford so they have endless possibilities they can go unlike gm and the camaro

zz4camaro1980
06-12-2012, 09:43 AM
You might need to race some more ricers, because I've definitely heard it.

Haha, now that I think about it, most dont want to stop and talk afterwards.

audacious nick
06-12-2012, 09:45 AM
Didnt GM say this car is ready for any road race circuit right off the showroom floor? I think they did figure out what they wanted to do and accomplished it... "the Camaro however has it covered in the handling department, NO CONTEST!"

As much as everyone here would like it to be (1/4 mile oriented), its not a one trick pony.




Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but Ive never heard a ricer say that they can smoke me through the twisties after I smoke them in a straight line...

I have heard it. I tell them to meet me at the road course.

Beans
06-12-2012, 09:55 AM
I have heard it. I tell them to meet me at the road course.

And how many times have they met you there?

Zero i assume...which goes back to the point that the ZL1 is faster on the road course it will probably never see, and the GT500 is faster everywhere else (where the cars will actually be).

zz4camaro1980
06-12-2012, 11:34 AM
And how many times have they met you there?

Zero i assume...which goes back to the point that the ZL1 is faster on the road course it will probably never see, and the GT500 is faster everywhere else (where the cars will actually be).

That goes both ways...
http://jalopnik.com/2013-shelby-gt500/

"But it's also crazy. Despite all the talk of the GT500's amazing all-around abilities, from track to dragstrip to road, the truth is only 7% of GT500 owners ever do anything remotely competitive with the car, and that 7% is just dragstrip use. Any other motorsport use or tracking is much less. So, all this capability, all this power will be at minimum 90% untapped. The Ford SVT engineers were very forthcoming about this, freely admitting most of the GT500s they sell will be garage queens that never do anything more than rev loudly at stoplights."

IMO (Warning: gross generalization below, dont take it to seriously)

Id be willing to bet that you will see more ZL1s gettting snotted on at the drag strip and road courses due to the fact that the people buying the ZL1 will be doing so because of their out of box capabilities (diff/trans/oil/power steering coolers standard, magnetic ride control, etc). The car is made to take extended amounts of abuse right off the showroom floor with standard running gear (no track packs required). People that like to drive the cars the way they are intended will be drawn more towards the ZL1.

On that same note, the people buying the GT500s are the ones that want to go to car shows to bench race/brag about their 662 horses. They would require a lot of options from Ford to really compete on the road course for more than a lap or two.

Not taking anything away from Ford, the new GT500 is just downright amazing. It just comes across as if they stuffed the biggest/most powerful engine they could in there, then built around it as an afterthought. While the ZL1 was/is set up as a great all around car that is capable holding its own anywhere you put it.

EDIT:
Just found the entire article (dont know if OP posted it, I cant see much at work).
http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/camaro/2012/2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-vs-2013-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-comparison-test.html

CyberGrey Z28
06-12-2012, 11:58 AM
^^ good points. I love how the ZL1 is being discredited now that there is proof that it handles better than the Shelby. I guess we should discredit the BMW M series, Audi's R8 other great handling cars. Everyone should get crotch rockets and only roll race on the hwy...

Beans
06-12-2012, 12:20 PM
That goes both ways...
http://jalopnik.com/2013-shelby-gt500/

"But it's also crazy. Despite all the talk of the GT500's amazing all-around abilities, from track to dragstrip to road, the truth is only 7% of GT500 owners ever do anything remotely competitive with the car, and that 7% is just dragstrip use. Any other motorsport use or tracking is much less. So, all this capability, all this power will be at minimum 90% untapped. The Ford SVT engineers were very forthcoming about this, freely admitting most of the GT500s they sell will be garage queens that never do anything more than rev loudly at stoplights."

IMO (Warning: gross generalization below, dont take it to seriously)

Id be willing to bet that you will see more ZL1s gettting snotted on at the drag strip and road courses due to the fact that the people buying the ZL1 will be doing so because of their out of box capabilities (diff/trans/oil/power steering coolers standard, magnetic ride control, etc). The car is made to take extended amounts of abuse right off the showroom floor with standard running gear (no track packs required). People that like to drive the cars the way they are intended will be drawn more towards the ZL1.

On that same note, the people buying the GT500s are the ones that want to go to car shows to bench race/brag about their 662 horses. They would require a lot of options from Ford to really compete on the road course for more than a lap or two.

Not taking anything away from Ford, the new GT500 is just downright amazing. It just comes across as if they stuffed the biggest/most powerful engine they could in there, then built around it as an afterthought. While the ZL1 was/is set up as a great all around car that is capable holding its own anywhere you put it.

EDIT:
Just found the entire article (dont know if OP posted it, I cant see much at work).
http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/camaro/2012/2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-vs-2013-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-comparison-test.html
Interesting stats on the GT500 uses. In a few years i might pick one up from one of the 93% that use them as talking points. I'd love to be $45K into a bolt-on and tune car that can trap 140 reliably.

I'm not saying the ZL1 is a bad car, i'm saying the vast majority of the times it crosses paths with the GT500, it's not going to be on the winning end.

You're probably right about more owners road racing the ZL1. That statistic will probably be similar to what Ford sees for the Boss. I'd bet it's still <5%.

I guess we should discredit the BMW M series, Audi's R8 other great handling cars. Everyone should get crotch rockets and only roll race on the hwy...

BMWs M cars have always been laughed at when it come to straight line performance for the dollar. They're great cars, and they do well at what they're expected to do, which is turn and stop. Camaros aren't expected to go around corners. It's cool that they built one that does, but it's not competitive in the arena it's expected to be strong in, acceleration.

As for the crotch rocket comment, i'm going to leave that one alone. You know nothing of my automotive background, which is primarily road course stuff. Got rid of my last BMW 3 years ago and haven't done much road racing since, but I have a track day on the bike in a week and really can't wait to get it out on the track...with corners.

Coupe Dave
06-12-2012, 12:25 PM
And how many times have they met you there?

Zero i assume...which goes back to the point that the ZL1 is faster on the road course it will probably never see, and the GT500 is faster everywhere else (where the cars will actually be).

WTF? :huh:


Talk about being one sided.

Coupe Dave
06-12-2012, 12:37 PM
Interesting stats on the GT500 uses. In a few years i might pick one up from one of the 93% that use them as talking points. I'd love to be $45K into a bolt-on and tune car that can trap 140 reliably.

I'm not saying the ZL1 is a bad car, i'm saying the vast majority of the times it crosses paths with the GT500, it's not going to be on the winning end.

You're probably right about more owners road racing the ZL1. That statistic will probably be similar to what Ford sees for the Boss. I'd bet it's still <5%.



BMWs M cars have always been laughed at when it come to straight line performance for the dollar. They're great cars, and they do well at what they're expected to do, which is turn and stop. Camaros aren't expected to go around corners. It's cool that they built one that does, but it's not competitive in the arena it's expected to be strong in, acceleration.

As for the crotch rocket comment, i'm going to leave that one alone. You know nothing of my automotive background, which is primarily road course stuff. Got rid of my last BMW 3 years ago and haven't done much road racing since, but I have a track day on the bike in a week and really can't wait to get it out on the track...with corners.

Despite your beliefs, not all pony cars were built solely for the purpose of drag racing. The Mustang Cobra "R" of 1993, '95 & '00 are a prime example of that. GM initially stated from the get, before the '13 GT500 was ever talked about, what their intentions were for the ZL1.

zz4camaro1980
06-12-2012, 12:45 PM
Interesting stats on the GT500 uses. In a few years i might pick one up from one of the 93% that use them as talking points. I'd love to be $45K into a bolt-on and tune car that can trap 140 reliably.
Thats actually my plan also (only im waiting for a Z06). The fact that the majority of the people that buy them dont really use them is great for folks that cant afford them brand new. We get cars that have been babied and already modded for a fraction of the original MSRP. Great time to be a car guy!:cheers:


I'm not saying the ZL1 is a bad car, i'm saying the vast majority of the times it crosses paths with the GT500, it's not going to be on the winning end.

I think I interpreted your previous post the wrong way... I cant agrue with you there. On the street (not much corner carving in a street race, lol) or at the strip, the ZL1 is in trouble.

CyberGrey Z28
06-12-2012, 12:50 PM
Glad I'm not the only one that disagrees w/ Ricky Bobby ^^


When I was a teen all I cared about was straight line performance. Now days I appreciate a well rounded total package vehicle with great accelaration, handling, stopping power, street manners and comfort aka z06/zr1

evangto87
06-12-2012, 01:17 PM
another little wrench in the system.... since when did pony cars setup for the road course get roots blowers? I think you may find that both the gt500 and zl1 will be one lap wonders and laps will get increasingly slower as they continue...

evolve
06-12-2012, 01:25 PM
Despite your beliefs, not all pony cars were built solely for the purpose of drag racing. The Mustang Cobra "R" of 1993, '95 & '00 are a prime example of that. GM initially stated from the get, before the '13 GT500 was ever talked about, what their intentions were for the ZL1.

True, but it didnt help that the Al whatever ran his mouth about the ZL1 dominating its competition (aka GT500) in all areas.

another little wrench in the system.... since when did pony cars setup for the road course get roots blowers? I think you may find that both the gt500 and zl1 will be one lap wonders and laps will get increasingly slower as they continue...

Very, very true... Its already been shown that the ZL1 has issues keeping it cool.

audacious nick
06-12-2012, 01:33 PM
And how many times have they met you there?

Zero i assume...which goes back to the point that the ZL1 is faster on the road course it will probably never see, and the GT500 is faster everywhere else (where the cars will actually be).

Exactly.

zz4camaro1980
06-12-2012, 01:34 PM
True, but it didnt help that the Al whatever ran his mouth about the ZL1 dominating its competition (aka GT500) in all areas.



Very, very true... Its already been shown that the ZL1 has issues keeping it cool.

Just curious where you heard this?

"Chevy officials are also clearly proud of the ZL1's "track-capable standard equipment," including engine oil, transmission and differential coolers, as well as a high-performance fuel system with additional pickups for continuous high-g corners during low-fuel conditions."

I doubt they would put a diff cooler in and neglect the supercharger.

NOLAG05
06-12-2012, 01:46 PM
From SVT site, guy raced a ZL1 auto against his GT500...

Summary of races 60-140, with all factors equal:

GT500 vs CTS-v: Very close, drivers race, slight edge to the Caddy
Gt500 Vs ZL1: Winner goes to GT500
Zl1 vs SRT8: Drivers race again with a small edge to the ZL1

here is the full thread...http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/road-kill-drive-thru-34/843941-11-gt500-vs-cts-v-zl1-vs-392-challenger-srt8.html

Theblacknightls1
06-12-2012, 01:51 PM
That is sweet...I love that it can outhandle the GT500 in the twisties. ZL1 owners can finally use the same excuse that ricers have been using for years after they get drug down the road.

Awesome.

:lol:

Theblacknightls1
06-12-2012, 01:53 PM
From SVT site, guy raced a ZL1 auto against his GT500...

Summary of races 60-140, with all factors equal:

GT500 vs CTS-v: Very close, drivers race, slight edge to the Caddy
Gt500 Vs ZL1: Winner goes to GT500
Zl1 vs SRT8: Drivers race again with a small edge to the ZL1

here is the full thread...http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/road-kill-drive-thru-34/843941-11-gt500-vs-cts-v-zl1-vs-392-challenger-srt8.html

It was a 2011 gt500?

NOLAG05
06-12-2012, 02:05 PM
from his thread on SVT...

2011 gt500 SVTPP vert, lund tune, 2.59 vmp pulley, 170 stat (Has not been on a dyno yet).

It was a 2011 gt500?

NOLAG05
06-12-2012, 02:14 PM
I put this in another thread but it applies here also... here it comes...lol

We all know that Chevy has detuned the Camaro's for years... if they push the envelope it will cause them to spend more money on the R&D for the Vette's to keep them out in front. Ford for as long as i can remember has only made one performance car being the Mustang... Chevy had several thru the years... the chevelle, malibu, nova, and camaro where all knocked down as to not out perform the Vette. But Ford has had the Mustang on top of there line... let Shelby play with it, lil Saleen action and the Roush version... All the top of there class to compete with the Vette... When Chevy gets there head out of their exhaust the ZL1 with eat the GT500 for breakfast and push the hell out of a Z06 but still bow down to the ZR1... Nissan did it years ago with the 300ZX twin turbo killing everything in production including the Mustangs and Vettes but politely taking it in the rear from the Skylines...

HioSSilver
06-12-2012, 02:17 PM
another little wrench in the system.... since when did pony cars setup for the road course get roots blowers? I think you may find that both the gt500 and zl1 will be one lap wonders and laps will get increasingly slower as they continue...

From what I've seen the zl1 doesn't heat soak. No 1 lap wonder car. It's in some vid someone posted on here that the testers said the Camaro was very repeatable.

Theblacknightls1
06-12-2012, 02:20 PM
Well in Japan the skyline was the Nissans car. The US it was the 300zx. Depends on what vette. The zr1 was a beast back in the day also.

Coupe Dave
06-12-2012, 02:23 PM
another little wrench in the system.... since when did pony cars setup for the road course get roots blowers? I think you may find that both the gt500 and zl1 will be one lap wonders and laps will get increasingly slower as they continue...

Wrong. Not in the case of the ZL1 at least.

NOLAG05
06-12-2012, 02:31 PM
I think heat soak will happen in the bigger Eaton TVS2300 before the smaller 1900 of the ZL1 correct? Quick question... if i put a TVS 2300 in the ZL that should be the major difference maker correct? i could b wrong... also going off the no replacement for displacement if given the blower being the TVS 2300 the bigger 6.2 of the Camaro will(should) outperform the smaller 5.8 of the Shelby? I'm no engineer so take for what its worth, just asking general questions...lol

NemeSS
06-12-2012, 02:33 PM
I put this in another thread but it applies here also... here it comes...lol

We all know that Chevy has detuned the Camaro's for years... if they push the envelope it will cause them to spend more money on the R&D for the Vette's to keep them out in front. Ford for as long as i can remember has only made one performance car being the Mustang... Chevy had several thru the years... the chevelle, malibu, nova, and camaro where all knocked down as to not out perform the Vette. But Ford has had the Mustang on top of there line... let Shelby play with it, lil Saleen action and the Roush version... All the top of there class to compete with the Vette... When Chevy gets there head out of their exhaust the ZL1 with eat the GT500 for breakfast and push the hell out of a Z06 but still bow down to the ZR1... Nissan did it years ago with the 300ZX twin turbo killing everything in production including the Mustangs and Vettes but politely taking it in the rear from the Skylines...

Wishful thinking about GM
GM could have easily dropped in the ls9 in the zl1. Easily. And underated to lower hp/tq
figures at lower rpm. with the same mods the vettes are getting. It would be a monster. it is a very strong powerful performer, but the ford fanbois will find anything to discredit it.

Theblacknightls1
06-12-2012, 02:39 PM
Wishful thinking about GM
GM could have easily dropped in the ls9 in the zl1. Easily. And underated to lower hp/tq
figures at lower rpm. with the same mods the vettes are getting. It would be a monster. it is a very strong powerful performer, but the ford fanbois will find anything to discredit it.

Both cars are good just depends what you prefer both have the potential to be made fast. I just don't get why didn't gm forged the motor to the zl1

Coupe Dave
06-12-2012, 03:00 PM
Wishful thinking about GM
GM could have easily dropped in the ls9 in the zl1. Easily. And underated to lower hp/tq
figures at lower rpm. with the same mods the vettes are getting. It would be a monster. it is a very strong powerful performer, but the ford fanbois will find anything to discredit it.

Agreed. And this coming from a Mustang guy too.

audacious nick
06-12-2012, 03:26 PM
I think heat soak will happen in the bigger Eaton TVS2300 before the smaller 1900 of the ZL1 correct? Quick question... if i put a TVS 2300 in the ZL that should be the major difference maker correct? i could b wrong... also going off the no replacement for displacement if given the blower being the TVS 2300 the bigger 6.2 of the Camaro will(should) outperform the smaller 5.8 of the Shelby? I'm no engineer so take for what its worth, just asking general questions...lol

A TVS2300 would make a huge difference, seeing as they're capable of 800rwhp+. The biggest issue is the lack of forged internals, which I honestly don't understand.
But swapping a TVS2300 onto the 6.2l would probably yield higher results, assuming you have a proper cam setup as well.

nmass399
06-12-2012, 03:28 PM
Both cars are good just depends what you prefer both have the potential to be made fast. I just don't get why didn't gm forged the motor to the zl1

Have you seen the price difference in the crate engine for a lsa(around $8900) vs ls9(around $18700) and thats from gm parts direct not everybody else. Forged rods and pistons would bring the price up a decent amount, not sure exactly how much. You know that means more $ for the ZL1. Have you also seen the price of a crate gt500 engine for a 2011 model, i priced one at $18600. I am not sure how much the 2013 gt500 crate motor will cost but i think it will be a little more than $18600.

Somebody tell me what all the money went into for the new gt500 and also for the ZL1 now.

This is not all directed at you blacknightls1 lol. Just trying to make a few points.

AWDTBSS
06-12-2012, 03:32 PM
People can say whatever they want but Ford made that to compete with ANY car you can buy for under 60k not just against the camaro. Never heard anyone say I'm looking for a pony car....its usually I got X amount of money to spend what should/can I get.

NOLAG05
06-12-2012, 03:44 PM
thats what i'm sayin, Ford made it to run anything... might not keep up with everything but in the 60K and under group... she is pretty hard to beat! and i'm not even a Ford guy... just lookin at the numbers.


People can say whatever they want but Ford made that to compete with ANY car you can buy for under 60k not just against the camaro. Never heard anyone say I'm looking for a pony car....its usually I got X amount of money to spend what should/can I get.

NOLAG05
06-12-2012, 03:45 PM
just for shyts & giggles new motor for the CTS-V, LS9 with blower is 20,999... on sale right now...lol
http://www.jegs.com/p/GM-Performance/GM-Performance-Parts-LS9-62L-Supercharged-Engine/1271011/10002/-1


Have you seen the price difference in the crate engine for a lsa(around $8900) vs ls9(around $18700) and thats from gm parts direct not everybody else. Forged rods and pistons would bring the price up a decent amount, not sure exactly how much. You know that means more $ for the ZL1. Have you also seen the price of a crate gt500 engine for a 2011 model, i priced one at $18600. I am not sure how much the 2013 gt500 crate motor will cost but i think it will be a little more than $18600.

Somebody tell me what all the money went into for the new gt500 and also for the ZL1 now.

This is not all directed at you blacknightls1 lol. Just trying to make a few points.

AWDTBSS
06-12-2012, 03:53 PM
Exactly new or used they don't care. Not everyone wants or chooses strictly between brand new cars. And so far they did a very good job it looks like at making a good value car for under 60k which the C6Z owned solely pretty much since it came out. Now you almost gotta atleast consider the GT500 and vise versa whether or not its your style its gotta atleast come up imo

NOLAG05
06-12-2012, 03:56 PM
Agreed! Only issue is with a kid on the way(Oct) i won't be able to get either... car seats won't work, and wifey can't drive a stick...lol

Exactly new or used they don't care. Not everyone wants or chooses strictly between brand new cars. And so far they did a very good job it looks like at making a good value car for under 60k which the C6Z owned solely pretty much since it came out. Now you almost gotta atleast consider the GT500 and vise versa whether or not its your style its gotta atleast come up imo

Theblacknightls1
06-12-2012, 03:56 PM
Have you seen the price difference in the crate engine for a lsa(around $8900) vs ls9(around $18700) and thats from gm parts direct not everybody else. Forged rods and pistons would bring the price up a decent amount, not sure exactly how much. You know that means more $ for the ZL1. Have you also seen the price of a crate gt500 engine for a 2011 model, i priced one at $18600. I am not sure how much the 2013 gt500 crate motor will cost but i think it will be a little more than $18600.

Somebody tell me what all the money went into for the new gt500 and also for the ZL1 now.

This is not all directed at you blacknightls1 lol. Just trying to make a few points.

No problem you proved a good point. Just was wondering how much power can the zl1 handle and somone mentioned it didn't have forged internals

Redfire 03
06-12-2012, 03:57 PM
just for shyts & giggles new motor for the CTS-V, LS9 with blower is 20,999... on sale right now...lol
http://www.jegs.com/p/GM-Performance/GM-Performance-Parts-LS9-62L-Supercharged-Engine/1271011/10002/-1

That motor is for the ZR1. The Caddy uses the LSA.

AWDTBSS
06-12-2012, 04:00 PM
Ya if you need auto and 4drs then imo it goes 09+ CTS-V, 63 Series AMGs, or maybe a E60+ M5 not sure what those go for

NOLAG05
06-12-2012, 04:10 PM
my bad... was drooling at the time... here is the one for the V... thanx...lol
http://www.jegs.com/p/GM-Performance/GM-Performance-LSA-62L-CTS-V-Supercharged-Engine/1224593/10002/-1
but that works also...lol

That motor is for the ZR1. The Caddy uses the LSA.

marc97taws6
06-12-2012, 04:30 PM
Ya if you need auto and 4drs then imo it goes 09+ CTS-V, 63 Series AMGs, or maybe a E60+ M5 not sure what those go for
Yeah, if it were me I'd prefer a used 09+ V as you can get them now in the low 40's easily
my bad... was drooling at the time... here is the one for the V... thanx...lol
http://www.jegs.com/p/GM-Performance/GM-Performance-LSA-62L-CTS-V-Supercharged-Engine/1224593/10002/-1
but that works also...lol

I'm surprised how low that price is! :eek2:

nmass399
06-12-2012, 04:31 PM
No problem you proved a good point. Just was wondering how much power can the zl1 handle and somone mentioned it didn't have forged internals

Thats one thing i have been curious about also, they seem to be holding up pretty good as of now. The pistons are quote "High-strength hypereutectic pistons" from allenginelist.com and the rods are forged powder metal with a forged crank. It has the piston oil squirters which helps keep heat out of the pistons and cylinder which also helps detonation.

There are people putting down 700+ with these engines in the ZL1 right now. 10 or more years ago people would probably think your crazy or not believe you if you were running that much power on a hypereutectic or basic cast aluminum piston.

2SSARME
06-12-2012, 05:27 PM
well...

We do live in a year and age where you can take faggoty 1.8L 4cyl engines to 600-700rwhp. So I believe just about anything is possible.

Theblacknightls1
06-12-2012, 07:09 PM
well...

We do live in a year and age where you can take faggoty 1.8L 4cyl engines to 600-700rwhp. So I believe just about anything is possible.

:lurk::huh:

audacious nick
06-12-2012, 07:16 PM
well...

We do live in a year and age where you can take faggoty 1.8L 4cyl engines to 600-700rwhp. So I believe just about anything is possible.

Shit, 1.3l haybusa engines are putting down 5-600rwhp.

Driver_10
06-12-2012, 09:17 PM
fewer people are looking at how great it handles, and more are looking at how it does in a 1/4.

Not so sure if I agree with this. A lot of popular emphasis has been turning towards handling these days.

Ill be frank and just say it... going fast is easy and you don't have to be smart to do it.

enginjoe
06-12-2012, 11:24 PM
If they really cared about handling, they would drop the weight by 500 lbs. What a pig. I saw a vid of a Boss 302 with a couple mods and a tune beating one from a 40 roll. I hope that thing can take a pulley swap to make some more power to haul all that flubber around.

2SSARME
06-12-2012, 11:59 PM
if they really cared about handling, they would drop the weight by 500 lbs. What a pig. I saw a vid of a boss 302 with a couple mods and a tune beating one from a 40 roll. I hope that thing can take a pulley swap to make some more power to haul all that flubber around.

cts-v.

41863nj
06-13-2012, 03:53 AM
OHIOBORN..motor tend got a 11.6 out of the ZL1???...when was this ?? i subscribe to that mag...the best i have seen was a 12.1@117.4 in the march 2012 issue...i am not at doubting you just that i was not aware of another test...what issue was it in ??? as i said, i own every issue for about 9 years now and have never seen anything in ''motortrend'' that backs this up...yes the zl1 has dipped into the 11's, but not by motertrend...car&driver got a 12.3@119mph...

Driver_10
06-13-2012, 05:05 AM
If they really cared about handling, they would drop the weight by 500 lbs. What a pig. I saw a vid of a Boss 302 with a couple mods and a tune beating one from a 40 roll. I hope that thing can take a pulley swap to make some more power to haul all that flubber around.

Agreed... The car is really too heavy, which makes the fact that its faster around the track then an M3 all the more remarkable.

I'm biding my time waiting for the 2014-15 model when they start building on the new lighter-weight Caddy chassis.

At that point, 550-580hp will be more than adequate.

evangto87
06-13-2012, 09:11 AM
Thats one thing i have been curious about also, they seem to be holding up pretty good as of now. The pistons are quote "High-strength hypereutectic pistons" from allenginelist.com and the rods are forged powder metal with a forged crank. It has the piston oil squirters which helps keep heat out of the pistons and cylinder which also helps detonation.

There are people putting down 700+ with these engines in the ZL1 right now. 10 or more years ago people would probably think your crazy or not believe you if you were running that much power on a hypereutectic or basic cast aluminum piston.

u mean the rotating assembly isnt even forged? ugh

Theblacknightls1
06-13-2012, 09:43 AM
u mean the rotating assembly isnt even forged? ugh

Yeah that why I didn't even look so much into it because I assumed it was.

m_liel
06-13-2012, 09:43 AM
OHIOBORN..motor tend got a 11.6 out of the ZL1???...when was this ?? i subscribe to that mag...the best i have seen was a 12.1@117.4 in the march 2012 issue...i am not at doubting you just that i was not aware of another test...what issue was it in ??? as i said, i own every issue for about 9 years now and have never seen anything in ''motortrend'' that backs this up...yes the zl1 has dipped into the 11's, but not by motertrend...car&driver got a 12.3@119mph...

I think he meant GT500.

hugger1975
06-13-2012, 09:52 AM
I'm still lol at faggoty 1.something engines :lol:

ohioborn80
06-13-2012, 10:18 AM
OHIOBORN..motor tend got a 11.6 out of the ZL1???...when was this ?? i subscribe to that mag...the best i have seen was a 12.1@117.4 in the march 2012 issue...i am not at doubting you just that i was not aware of another test...what issue was it in ??? as i said, i own every issue for about 9 years now and have never seen anything in ''motortrend'' that backs this up...yes the zl1 has dipped into the 11's, but not by motertrend...car&driver got a 12.3@119mph...

As above that what they took.the GT500 to.

ScreaminRedZ
06-13-2012, 10:28 AM
I think heat soak will happen in the bigger Eaton TVS2300 before the smaller 1900 of the ZL1 correct? Quick question... if i put a TVS 2300 in the ZL that should be the major difference maker correct? i could b wrong... also going off the no replacement for displacement if given the blower being the TVS 2300 the bigger 6.2 of the Camaro will(should) outperform the smaller 5.8 of the Shelby? I'm no engineer so take for what its worth, just asking general questions...lol

A TVS2300 would make a huge difference, seeing as they're capable of 800rwhp+. The biggest issue is the lack of forged internals, which I honestly don't understand.
But swapping a TVS2300 onto the 6.2l would probably yield higher results, assuming you have a proper cam setup as well.

I could be wrong, but I believe it has been tried with CTS-V's and didn't show much gain if any. This could also be due to a better intercooler design on the V's because there is more room under the hood than there is with a ZR1.

I believe the CTS-V record for stock displacement, stock blower (ported though) is like 9.9 @ 139 mph. 700+ rwhp through the auto.

Wishful thinking about GM
GM could have easily dropped in the ls9 in the zl1. Easily. And underated to lower hp/tq figures at lower rpm. with the same mods the vettes are getting. It would be a monster. it is a very strong powerful performer, but the ford fanbois will find anything to discredit it.

I wish they would have gone with the LS9 also, but it might be better that they didn't. Probably dyno 40 more rwhp and still get beat up with nowhere left to go (from the factory) unless they came out with a new engine.

It is stupid that GM holds back the Camaro due to the vette. No one with any sense would think the two cars would perform the same when one weighs so much more.

u mean the rotating assembly isnt even forged? ugh

I'm not sure why they didn't forge the rotating assembly (cost probably, knowing GM), but they seem to be holding up well. People have made 650-700 rwhp on blower and then sprayed on top of that without issue.

regblkss
06-13-2012, 10:32 AM
If GM is worried about stepping on Corvette toes. Then bump the vette up as well. Give the base vette z06 power and weight. And then give the zl1 the ls9 and lose 300 pounds. Problem solved

wicked383lt1
06-13-2012, 11:04 AM
Does this mean I need to mod up to start the race on the hwy on ramps now...damn ZL1!

PewterScreaminMach
06-13-2012, 11:17 AM
I'm pretty sure GM stated right from the start that the ZL1 was specifically being designed to perform as a badass on the road course. I don't know why people are saying they need to figure out what they want to do with the car. The very first article I ever read on it when they first officially announced it was all about how it was being designed to handle and perform well on the road course. If you disagree with their purpose for the car, that's one thing, but they never gave the impression of trying to make it anything other than a strong performer on the road course. Everyone - magazines, manufacturers, etc - does 1/4 mile testing on their vehicles, but it doesn't mean that was the purpose of the car.

I also doubt anyone at the time of the ZL1 designing expected Ford to drop a super-underrated, 600 rwhp bomb on the market. It clearly wasn't anticipated by GM (or anyone else, for that matter, including even most Ford enthusiasts considering all of the shock and over-joyed reactions going around). The car makes 100 more rwhp than the ZL1 and weighs less, but judging by the twisty numbers we're seeing so far, it looks like the ZL1 is holding up in the area it was designed for based on the design that was seen through to completion, which was long-finished before Ford put the '13 GT500 on the market and people realized the kind of power it actually makes.

The fact that Ford can do whatever the hell they want with the GT500 since it's their current top of the line performance vehicle is also a good point. Whether you agree with it or not (and I personally don't), GM clearly doesn't want to outgun the Corvette with any version of the Camaro, so until a major upgrade happens to the ZR1, I don't see them putting a 600rwhp Camaro on the market to compete with the GT500 in a straight line. Until the '13 GT500 hit the dyno and track publicly, they probably didn't think they had to to at least keep things in the same ball park.

enginjoe
06-13-2012, 11:25 AM
I think it's just the pistons and that aren't forged.

Theblacknightls1
06-13-2012, 11:37 AM
If GM is worried about stepping on Corvette toes. Then bump the vette up as well. Give the base vette z06 power and weight. And then give the zl1 the ls9 and lose 300 pounds. Problem solved

Lol that's what i said or ment and some laugh at the idea. :confused:

41863nj
06-13-2012, 11:47 AM
M_LIEL...ok ...just was wracking my brain, couldn't find where motor trend got that from...11.6 for the shelby sounds right, i would believe 11.4.

41863nj
06-13-2012, 11:53 AM
PEWTERSCREAMINMACH...never seen anyone put in better words then you did...great job..i think it's just that as GM guy i wanted the ZL1 to have a better 1/4 time...but you're 100% correct in you're take on it, i could never buy a shelby over a ZL1 that's for sure.

ScreaminRedZ
06-13-2012, 11:54 AM
I'm pretty sure GM stated right from the start that the ZL1 was specifically being designed to perform as a badass on the road course. I don't know why people are saying they need to figure out what they want to do with the car. The very first article I ever read on it when they first officially announced it was all about how it was being designed to handle and perform well on the road course. If you disagree with their purpose for the car, that's one thing, but they never gave the impression of trying to make it anything other than a strong performer on the road course. Everyone - magazines, manufacturers, etc - does 1/4 mile testing on their vehicles, but it doesn't mean that was the purpose of the car.

I also doubt anyone at the time of the ZL1 designing expected Ford to drop a super-underrated, 600 rwhp bomb on the market. It clearly wasn't anticipated by GM (or anyone else, for that matter, including even most Ford enthusiasts considering all of the shock and over-joyed reactions going around). The car makes 100 more rwhp than the ZL1 and weighs less, but judging by the twisty numbers we're seeing so far, it looks like the ZL1 is holding up in the area it was designed for based on the design that was seen through to completion, which was long-finished before Ford put the '13 GT500 on the market and people realized the kind of power it actually makes.

The fact that Ford can do whatever the hell they want with the GT500 since it's their current top of the line performance vehicle is also a good point. Whether you agree with it or not (and I personally don't), GM clearly doesn't want to outgun the Corvette with any version of the Camaro, so until a major upgrade happens to the ZR1, I don't see them putting a 600rwhp Camaro on the market to compete with the GT500 in a straight line. Until the '13 GT500 hit the dyno and track publicly, they probably didn't think they had to to at least keep things in the same ball park.

I agree that GM stated right from the beginning that they built the car to be good on a road course, but if that's the case then why does it weigh the same as a full size, 4 door, 75k, luxury Cadillac? Imagine if GM had pulled their head out of their ass and put the same motor into a car weighing the same as a Boss Mustang (never mind if it had the LS9).

I think the car is great and performs well for what it is, but I also think it could have been so much more than a cheap CTS-V.

41863nj
06-13-2012, 11:56 AM
OHIOBORN.. i re-read your post...sorry, by bad...you did mention the shelby...sorry.

PewterScreaminMach
06-13-2012, 12:19 PM
I agree that GM stated right from the beginning that they built the car to be good on a road course, but if that's the case then why does it weigh the same as a full size, 4 door, 75k, luxury Cadillac? Imagine if GM had pulled their head out of their ass and put the same motor into a car weighing the same as a Boss Mustang (never mind if it had the LS9).

I think the car is great and performs well for what it is, but I also think it could have been so much more than a cheap CTS-V.

I agree, but then again I don't know much about the specifics of the weight of all those gizmos they put on it to make it perform well. Seems like a give and take to me. Why a track-oriented coupe of similar quality weighs significantly more than a large, 4-door, high end family sedan (G8 GT) is beyond me.

I like creature comforts as much as anyone, but I personally think it would have been badass if they made this specialty car something more along the lines of the 2000 Cobra R. Maybe not to that stripped down extreme, but if you're making a special edition car whose purpose is road course domination, not all of the luxury-oriented features are necessary.

At the same time, with those skid pad numbers, etc, the weight doesn't exactly seem to be holding it back in the handling department. Perhaps GM is of the opinion that the extra weight of all the higher tech, handling-oriented parts outweighs the benefits of weight savings (somewhat ironically).

4,100 pounds for a performance-based 2-door coupe just looks god-awful on paper, though. And it sucks to see these weights just keep rising and rising in such an extreme fashion that it almost makes you wonder if the manufacturer even cares, especially if you're of more of a drag racing mentality. Strip 500 pounds out of it and it still weighs over a hundred pounds more than a stock LS1 Fbody. 500 pounds is more than three of me. I could clone myself three times and ride around in an LS1 Fbody with all four of me in the car and we'd still weigh less than one of me driving a ZL1. That's just depressing.

ScreaminRedZ
06-13-2012, 12:40 PM
At the rate things are going, in 10 years the badass new coupes will be out with 5200lbs curb weights and we'll be longing for the good old days of 4100 lbs cars.

evangto87
06-13-2012, 12:49 PM
as far as tackling straight line performance. Evolution has had a gt500 for a few weeks.. Changed the pulley, air intake, full exhaust, and wheels/tires.....10.0 at 140 first track visit. 748whp. And i dont think the ZL supercar should have its hands full with the boss. While they did make it do what they wanted on the corners, its straight line performance is sub par at best. At least give it a tvs 2300 along side a forged rotating assembly. Im really in shock they are running cast pistons and powdered metal rods...O well. The only way to fix this error is to come out with a more boss-like camaro. As in: 3500lb curb weight, ls7 n/a powerplante, 6 spd 6060, with atleast a 3.73 gear. To me... thats a badass car. But ive always been N/A biast..

PewterScreaminMach
06-13-2012, 01:06 PM
as far as tackling straight line performance. Evolution has had a gt500 for a few weeks.. Changed the pulley, air intake, full exhaust, and wheels/tires.....10.0 at 140 first track visit. 748whp. And i dont think the ZL supercar should have its hands full with the boss. While they did make it do what they wanted on the corners, its straight line performance is sub par at best. At least give it a tvs 2300 along side a forged rotating assembly. Im really in shock they are running cast pistons and powdered metal rods...O well. The only way to fix this error is to come out with a more boss-like camaro. As in: 3500lb curb weight, ls7 n/a powerplante, 6 spd 6060, with atleast a 3.73 gear. To me... thats a badass car. But ive always been N/A biast..

I wouldn't call it an error. As previously stated, the design of the ZL1 was done well before anyone knew Ford was gonna be putting a 2.3L blower on top of a 5.8L V8 and cranking out 600rwhp (except for maybe Ford, obviously). These cars are a year apart and when the ZL1 was designed, its competition was the previous generation GT500 (which had just seen a bump in power), and which I imagine the ZL1 will handle well on a road course, as it was designed to do (time will tell).

They didn't exactly slap the ZL1 together with leftover shop parts and hope it would do OK at its intended purpose. It also clearly wasn't designed to compete with a 600 rwhp car in a straight line, particularly considering there was no 600 rwhp factory Mustang in sight when they designed the thing. Hindsight is 20/20, but even the most die-hard Ford fans didn't expect that kind of power from this thing (though I'm sure many hoped for it someday). Hell, the rated power was more than most expected, and it's still greatly under-rated for even those numbers. It has like a 9% drivetrain loss according to its already shocking "rated" numbers...

evangto87
06-13-2012, 01:53 PM
I just feel the zl1 should have a definitive win over a stock boss, but it doesnt. In retrospect, a GT with a few bolt ons will give a stock ZL1 a run. I just feel its lacking. Too heavy

Daz
06-13-2012, 02:03 PM
Owning a '04 STi for a few years made me look at other aspects of racing other than just a straight line. I love the fact that the ZL1 handles and doesn't do excessively bad in a straight line(like the STi/Evo)especially at its weight ! Just like the Evo/STi, the Evo was the less powerful car but handled awesomely and with a few mods(way cheaper to mod than a STI) was smoking my STi. I hope this is the case. I'd like to think that the camaro was built this same way though I do wish the weight would come down a good 500lbs.

I also like to think that the ZL1 is just a base just so GM can see where they stand at against the competion and with the results they make the appropriate changes/mods. I mean 4400lbs and it handles the way that it does ?

PewterScreaminMach
06-13-2012, 02:11 PM
I just feel the zl1 should have a definitive win over a stock boss, but it doesnt. In retrospect, a GT with a few bolt ons will give a stock ZL1 a run. I just feel its lacking. Too heavy

Define "win"? Have you seen both of them with solid drivers on the same road course on the same day? Because that's where the ZL1 was designed to "win", not on a drag strip.

Daz
06-13-2012, 02:20 PM
Here's one for the drag strip ! No #'s though, Hmmm !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2XBGbkSEEM&feature=relmfu

NOLAG05
06-13-2012, 02:28 PM
At the end of the day the question still remains... which would you take... the str8 line guys will go with the Shelby and the track guys will go with the ZL... the creative guys will get the ZL and make the mods to run down a Shelby, while the Shelby guys will be making mods to beat Supra's and ZR1's... right or wrong... I know when i built my STi it was to smack that smile off most V8 owners faces...lol. Some guy somewhere has been waiting on one of these two platforms to create a monster out of... I'll b sitting at the track waiting and watching...http://mlkshk.com/r/9DBU

stockz
06-13-2012, 02:29 PM
I just feel the zl1 should have a definitive win over a stock boss, but it doesnt. In retrospect, a GT with a few bolt ons will give a stock ZL1 a run. I just feel its lacking. Too heavy

When did they run them? As far as I can tell no one has ran these two and I think the Boss will be put down, by how much??? whom knows.

IMO it is still disappointing due to the Uglyness and heavy weight.

NOLAG05
06-13-2012, 02:35 PM
at the .35 second mark looking under the hood looks like a TVS2300 not the 1900 from the ZL1... i could be mistaken but looks like the 2300 https://www.phastekperformance.com/v/vspfiles/photos/MAGNACHARGER-MP-TVS-2300-2.jpg?216.4072

Here's one for the drag strip ! No #'s though, Hmmm !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2XBGbkSEEM&feature=relmfu

Theblacknightls1
06-13-2012, 02:39 PM
Watching this .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLZdKnDAMnE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

m_liel
06-13-2012, 02:41 PM
I just feel the zl1 should have a definitive win over a stock boss, but it doesnt. In retrospect, a GT with a few bolt ons will give a stock ZL1 a run. I just feel its lacking. Too heavy

Good point, BUT then the guy in the ZL1 can simply pulley up with a couple bolt-ons and return the favor x2! That's the good thing about having blowers from the factory. Remember the 03/04 Cobra? :)

I agree that GM stated right from the beginning that they built the car to be good on a road course, but if that's the case then why does it weigh the same as a full size, 4 door, 75k, luxury Cadillac? Imagine if GM had pulled their head out of their ass and put the same motor into a car weighing the same as a Boss Mustang (never mind if it had the LS9).

I think the car is great and performs well for what it is, but I also think it could have been so much more than a cheap CTS-V.

Heck, IMO that is quite the accomplishment. GM managed to build a heavy car that could still out-handle its lighter competition along with more expensive automobiles like the BMW M3. They (GM) obviously knew what they were doing.

ScreaminRedZ
06-13-2012, 03:09 PM
At the end of the day the question still remains... which would you take... the str8 line guys will go with the Shelby and the track guys will go with the ZL...

There will be some of this, but mostly the GM guys will choose the ZL1 and the Ford guys will choose the GT500. Way's it's been for a long time and nothing will change soon. At the end of the day I would choose based on looks because both cars are very easy to mod up (even if one will take a few more mods to match the performance of the other).

Another thing I was thinking about is the hot topic of that video with the Boss beating the ZL1. I'd be curious to see the comments if the Boss beat a 2012 GT500 the same way.

stockz
06-13-2012, 03:58 PM
There will be some of this, but mostly the GM guys will choose the ZL1 and the Ford guys will choose the GT500. Way's it's been for a long time and nothing will change soon. At the end of the day I would choose based on looks because both cars are very easy to mod up (even if one will take a few more mods to match the performance of the other).

Another thing I was thinking about is the hot topic of that video with the Boss beating the ZL1. I'd be curious to see the comments if the Boss beat a 2012 GT500 the same way.

Good Points, I can't wait to see some real life vids on this subject. :eek2:

Daz
06-13-2012, 04:39 PM
at the .35 second mark looking under the hood looks like a TVS2300 not the 1900 from the ZL1... i could be mistaken but looks like the 2300 https://www.phastekperformance.com/v/vspfiles/photos/MAGNACHARGER-MP-TVS-2300-2.jpg?216.4072

Not sure but definitely a blower on a 5.3 ! And they have a bigger engine Na that they're testing too !

Good point, BUT then the guy in the ZL1 can simply pulley up with a couple bolt-ons and return the favor x2! That's the good thing about having blowers from the factory. Remember the 03/04 Cobra? :)



Heck, IMO that is quite the accomplishment. GM managed to build a heavy car that could still out-handle its lighter competition along with more expensive automobiles like the BMW M3. They (GM) obviously knew what they were doing.

This ^ !







I must've missed something cause the last I heard was that the ZL1 ate the Boss up at Leguna Seca !

NOLAG05
06-13-2012, 04:48 PM
^^2nd that... i heard the ZL kicked tail... here is the vid, its not "at" Leguna... its the ZL against the Leguna Seca Edition Boss 302 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE4AH4DZtEI&feature=colike

gregsss
06-13-2012, 05:12 PM
not for nothing guys... but all these car "testers" (motortrend, car and driver, edmunds) all are sallys behind the wheel. The zl1 is the much easier to car drive do to its launch control and technology. The GT500 requires much more drag racing experience to drive it. I think you will find that both cars on drag radial with good drivers.... the ET gap will grow passed a half a second. Ive seen 11.4 at 126 out of the gt500 so far and 11.9 at 116 out of the zl1. If anyone here knows anything about drag racing, you would know that 11.4 at 126 is mediocre driving at best. And 11.9 at 116 is actually fairly efficient. Just saying

The most biast comment ever.

enginjoe
06-13-2012, 05:20 PM
One thing I like about the ZL1 over the GT500...auto transmission option.

enginjoe
06-13-2012, 05:24 PM
The most biast comment ever.

Or biased...

marc97taws6
06-13-2012, 10:04 PM
Looking up videos of new 2013 SVT now. Definitely an impressive car. Wish I was in a better state to warrant driving a toy car year round :lol:

evangto87
06-13-2012, 11:40 PM
Good point, BUT then the guy in the ZL1 can simply pulley up with a couple bolt-ons and return the favor x2! That's the good thing about having blowers from the factory. Remember the 03/04 Cobra? :)


Yes i remember the 03/04 cobra.... I also remember that it had forged internals from the factory unlike the zl1..

As far as straight line muscle is concerned.. They anchored the car to the ground with a 4200lb curb weight.. and put cast internals in it.

evangto87
06-13-2012, 11:45 PM
The most biast comment ever.

call it biased*... but i call it like i see it. I was expecting more out of the zl1 in a straight line. It is what it is. Accept it. In a straight line, the GT500 will quite literally suck the zl1 up with equal drivers. Things are different on a road course however. GT500 quite literally weighs 400lbs less and makes 100whp, has forged internals... its no contest.

Either way... I would throw both of those cars in the trash for a c6 z06.

2SSARME
06-13-2012, 11:48 PM
still waiting on a 2013 Zl1.

Let's stop comparing 2012 to 2013, like you ford boys love to do.

evangto87
06-13-2012, 11:50 PM
^^2nd that... i heard the ZL kicked tail... here is the vid, its not "at" Leguna... its the ZL against the Leguna Seca Edition Boss 302 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE4AH4DZtEI&feature=colike

One thing you should know about this comparison. Not saying the boss would win around the road course against the zl1... but... in this particular comparison, The laguna Seca lapped the track 2 seconds slower then the standard boss did previously... Sketchy much?

wicked383lt1
06-13-2012, 11:51 PM
If I had to pick I'd go with the gt500 all day. After having a nicely set-up zo6.

evangto87
06-13-2012, 11:54 PM
still waiting on a 2013 Zl1.

Let's stop comparing 2012 to 2013, like you ford boys love to do.

Not a ford boy... ive owned both. Love both... ZL1 was a let down to me. I know i get flamed for saying that...

I have a 2012 NA 5.0 and cant wait to run into a supercharged 6.2l 2012 ZL1 on the highway.... All im saying.

To me, chevys cars are still the CTS-V and Z06. I like the ZR1... but to me... Z06 is the badder of the 2. Then again... always favor the "suck, squish, bang, blow" way of making HP.

Redfire 03
06-14-2012, 12:02 AM
Yes i remember the 03/04 cobra.... I also remember that it had forged internals from the factory unlike the zl1..

As far as straight line muscle is concerned.. They anchored the car to the ground with a 4200lb curb weight.. and put cast internals in it.

There are CTS-V's with the LSA pushing ~615whp on the stock bottom end. I don't think a Boss can do that with simple bolt-on mods. Not comparing the two directly, just reiterating my point.

evangto87
06-14-2012, 12:06 AM
There are CTS-V's with the LSA pushing ~615whp on the stock bottom end. I don't think a Boss can do that with simple bolt-on mods. Not comparing the two directly, just reiterating my point.

Your right it cant do that with simple bolt ons... however, my bottom end can handle well over that power from the factory if i so choose to boost it, which i in fact may be very well doing this winter. And even still... 615whp on a cast bottom end may be do-able... but i wouldnt be comfortable with it. Ive personally seen how easy cast can fall apart with the slightest hint of detonation.

Redfire 03
06-14-2012, 12:06 AM
Not a ford boy... ive owned both. Love both... ZL1 was a let down to me. I know i get flamed for saying that...

I have a 2012 NA 5.0 and cant wait to run into a supercharged 6.2l 2012 ZL1 on the highway.... All im saying.

To me, chevys cars are still the CTS-V and Z06. I like the ZR1... but to me... Z06 is the badder of the 2. Then again... always favor the "suck, squish, bang, blow" way of making HP.

Actually, from a performance standpoint, the ZR1 is the baddest GM car out right now...by far.

Redfire 03
06-14-2012, 12:08 AM
Your right it cant do that with simple bolt ons... however, my bottom end can handle well over that power from the factory if i so choose to boost it, which i in fact may be very well doing this winter. And even still... 615whp on a cast bottom end may be do-able... but i wouldnt be comfortable with it. Ive personally seen how easy cast can fall apart with the slightest hint of detonation.

But that wasn't the point MLiel was trying to make, but I see what you're getting at.

odthetruth
06-14-2012, 01:33 AM
call it biased*... but i call it like i see it. I was expecting more out of the zl1 in a straight line. It is what it is. Accept it. In a straight line, the GT500 will quite literally suck the zl1 up with equal drivers. Things are different on a road course however. GT500 quite literally weighs 400lbs less and makes 100whp, has forged internals... its no contest.

Either way... I would throw both of those cars in the trash for a c6 z06.

I fully agree with you on the bold part. However, I'd have to see the GT500 with the same driver vs the ZL1 to see. Can't call road course based on whp and weight. Handling, suspension, and gearing factors can sometimes trump that. Course itself plays a factor too.

I'm disappointed in the straightline of the ZL1. But I knew it would be on the slower side, considering the 5th gen needs a diet.

BlackDemonSS
06-14-2012, 03:13 AM
Do you guys think the reason the new 5th gens eay so much is cause all the creature comforts. Ex: nice powered seat, high quality sound systems, etc. Hand it to Ford they kept weight down by sacrificing a little. What do you guys think? GM might diet the fat girl in a year ot so?

Heater
06-14-2012, 03:22 AM
The way GM is selling them and the target audience that is buying them now (middle age men and women), they are probably better off keeping the weight on them so that they keep all the creature comforts.

Locally I see way more middle aged women driving than any other age group or gender.

HioSSilver
06-14-2012, 06:36 AM
Yes i remember the 03/04 cobra.... I also remember that it had forged internals from the factory unlike the zl1..

As far as straight line muscle is concerned.. They anchored the car to the ground with a 4200lb curb weight.. and put cast internals in it.

Those forged internals were needed to keep that pos 4.6 together. Did'nt seem to help the rods bearings staying in it. Once you get to looking there is a whole pile of spun bearings in those things.

I would take my chances with the bigger piston(6.2) distributing the load over a bigger area over the smaller more stressed piston(5.8).

zz4camaro1980
06-14-2012, 06:47 AM
Those forged internals were needed to keep that pos 4.6 together. Did'nt seem to help the rods bearings staying in it. Once you get to looking there is a whole pile of spun bearings in those things.

I would take my chances with the bigger piston(6.2) distributing the load over a bigger area over the smaller more stressed piston(5.8).

:bang: Sorry to get off topic, but that must be the most ridiculous over-simplification I have ever heard. You know there is alot more to determining what kind of pressures a piston can take than bore size right?

HioSSilver
06-14-2012, 07:02 AM
Yep. Ford had to go forged years ago on the 03-04 cobra......at a measily by todays standard 390 hp to keep that thing together. That tells me on the normal 4.6 piston they were having problems keeping it together in testing. Only stands right to figure the threshold is lower for piston material holding up is lower in that engine.....whatever those variables may be.

NOLAG05
06-14-2012, 07:09 AM
Didn't know that... thanx. is there any major differences between the two? Leguna Seca edition and regular Boss 302?


One thing you should know about this comparison. Not saying the boss would win around the road course against the zl1... but... in this particular comparison, The laguna Seca lapped the track 2 seconds slower then the standard boss did previously... Sketchy much?

Heater
06-14-2012, 07:22 AM
Those forged internals were needed to keep that pos 4.6 together. Did'nt seem to help the rods bearings staying in it. Once you get to looking there is a whole pile of spun bearings in those things.


Funny you should say that considering how many LS engines have spun their bearings. When you lean on an engine, there is always the chance that something is going to fail...no matter the brand.

I would take my chances with the bigger piston(6.2) distributing the load over a bigger area over the smaller more stressed piston(5.8).


I like bigger bore engines, but I have never heard or even thought of load distribution as a reason.

evangto87
06-14-2012, 07:35 AM
Didn't know that... thanx. is there any major differences between the two? Leguna Seca edition and regular Boss 302?

The Laguna comes with competition tires, a beefier rear sway and diff rear springs. The rest is literally all cosmetic. In theory the Laguna is the stronger of the 2 yet somehow it was 2 seconds slower. Ill tell you why... and people will flame for it because its against the zl1 but it happens all the time. Its just another comparison paid for by chevy. Ford does it, chevy does it, bmw does it.. etc etc. The car randomly lost 2 seconds to put the zl1 on the winning side of the comparison.

Not saying the zl1 is stronger around the track. But i would like to see a legit comparison that isnt biased towards either car. 2 cars, one real driver. It also has been proven the boss is the drivers car or the 2. If you dont literally know how to race a car around a track, you cant race it around a track.

zz4camaro1980
06-14-2012, 07:35 AM
Yep. Ford had to go forged years ago on the 03-04 cobra......at a measily by todays standard 390 hp to keep that thing together. That tells me on the normal 4.6 piston they were having problems keeping it together in testing. Only stands right to figure the threshold is lower for piston material holding up is lower in that engine.....whatever those variables may be.

:huh:

Funny you should say that considering how many LS engines have spun their bearings. When you lean on an engine, there is always the chance that something is going to fail...no matter the brand.

I like bigger bore engines, but I have never heard or even thought of load distribution as a reason.

Thats because its a retarded reason.

I dont feel like writing a couple pages about structural considerations on piston designs, but at a high level all things being equal it would be easier to build a stronger piston in a smaller bore.

evangto87
06-14-2012, 07:37 AM
Those forged internals were needed to keep that pos 4.6 together. Did'nt seem to help the rods bearings staying in it. Once you get to looking there is a whole pile of spun bearings in those things.

I would take my chances with the bigger piston(6.2) distributing the load over a bigger area over the smaller more stressed piston(5.8).

This is a bit of a weak statement. How can the 04/04 cobra motor be called a piece of shit? Do i think its the greatest motor... no. I prefer my motor 10 times out of 10. But to call that motor a pos, is just ludicrous.

evangto87
06-14-2012, 07:38 AM
:huh:



Thats because its a retarded reason.

I dont feel like writing a couple pages about structural considerations on piston designs, but at a high level all things being equal it would be easier to build a stronger piston in a smaller bore.

agreed.... hence why the 5.3s and 4.8s do so much better in stock form then the bigger motors under boost.

big hammer
06-14-2012, 07:39 AM
sure like that 4"+ bore for breathability when n\a though.

HioSSilver
06-14-2012, 09:04 AM
:huh:



Thats because its a retarded reason.

I dont feel like writing a couple pages about structural considerations on piston designs, but at a high level all things being equal it would be easier to build a stronger piston in a smaller bore.
We are not at a high level. We are at a pretty low level as far as ultimate power is conserned.
This is a bit of a weak statement. How can the 04/04 cobra motor be called a piece of shit? Do i think its the greatest motor... no. I prefer my motor 10 times out of 10. But to call that motor a pos, is just ludicrous.

I didn't call a 03-04 motor a pos. I called 4.6's a pos. Clearly the 03/04 motor is upgrade, but still not that great.

stockz
06-14-2012, 09:07 AM
The Laguna comes with competition tires, a beefier rear sway and diff rear springs. The rest is literally all cosmetic. In theory the Laguna is the stronger of the 2 yet somehow it was 2 seconds slower. Ill tell you why... and people will flame for it because its against the zl1 but it happens all the time. Its just another comparison paid for by chevy. Ford does it, chevy does it, bmw does it.. etc etc. The car randomly lost 2 seconds to put the zl1 on the winning side of the comparison.

Not saying the zl1 is stronger around the track. But i would like to see a legit comparison that isnt biased towards either car. 2 cars, one real driver. It also has been proven the boss is the drivers car or the 2. If you dont literally know how to race a car around a track, you cant race it around a track.
I would think, they stuck on the cosmetics and that extra weight slowed the car down, GM was always shoving ugly heavy plastic on things and simply making them heavier so they could acheive a certin LOOK..IMO

Also, GM has to be careful because we all know the LS1 camaros 65% of the time RAPED stock LS1 vette in the f-body years, to me this is why they discontinued them. why would I spend 50+k on a car thats Slower than my 17+k car, and it had back seats for groseries and golf clubs LOLOL

I worked at a race track for 9 years, most stock vettes could Barley go in the 8's 1/8 mile, and Most f-bodies would go 8.9-8.80's stock.
Just saying

916 BREDWNR
06-14-2012, 09:10 AM
The Laguna comes with competition tires, a beefier rear sway and diff rear springs. The rest is literally all cosmetic. In theory the Laguna is the stronger of the 2 yet somehow it was 2 seconds slower. Ill tell you why... and people will flame for it because its against the zl1 but it happens all the time. Its just another comparison paid for by chevy. Ford does it, chevy does it, bmw does it.. etc etc. The car randomly lost 2 seconds to put the zl1 on the winning side of the comparison.

Not saying the zl1 is stronger around the track. But i would like to see a legit comparison that isnt biased towards either car. 2 cars, one real driver. It also has been proven the boss is the drivers car or the 2. If you dont literally know how to race a car around a track, you cant race it around a track.

:rotflmao: I've heard it all now.


I've heard it all.

zz4camaro1980
06-14-2012, 09:22 AM
We are not at a high level. We are at a pretty low level as far as ultimate power is conserned.


I didn't call a 03-04 motor a pos. I called 4.6's a pos. Clearly the 03/04 motor is upgrade, but still not that great.

LOL, I meant high level in terms of explaining what goes in to piston design, not power level.

Daz
06-14-2012, 09:22 AM
:rotflmao: I've heard it all now.


I've heard it all.

Agree !

PewterScreaminMach
06-14-2012, 09:26 AM
Your right it cant do that with simple bolt ons... however, my bottom end can handle well over that power from the factory if i so choose to boost it, which i in fact may be very well doing this winter. And even still... 615whp on a cast bottom end may be do-able... but i wouldnt be comfortable with it. Ive personally seen how easy cast can fall apart with the slightest hint of detonation.

Rumor has it you're quite experienced with cast internal engines going boom...:lurk:

:angel:

:D

evangto87
06-14-2012, 09:50 AM
Rumor has it you're quite experienced with cast internal engines going boom...:lurk:

:angel:

:D

popped quite a few ls motors in my day

evangto87
06-14-2012, 09:55 AM
for those who dont think motor trend or car and driver ever get paid off to put a car on top, you fooling yourselves. It happens all the time. Not just chevy or ford. Its done ALL THE TIME. They are known for this actually. Why the hell would the boss slow down a full 2 seconds during this certain comparison? But this is LS1tech... so people of course will take the zl1 to the grave with them.


The ZL1 is the best car ever.. happy? I wish i had one... shouldnt have bought my car. CHEVY CHEVY CHEVY CHEEEEEVYYYYYYYY!!!!! Im done with this thread.. Peace out hommies!

zz4camaro1980
06-14-2012, 10:04 AM
for those who dont think motor trend or car and driver ever get paid off to put a car on top, you fooling yourselves. It happens all the time. Not just chevy or ford. Its done ALL THE TIME. They are known for this actually. Why the hell would the boss slow down a full 2 seconds during this certain comparison? But this is LS1tech... so people of course will take the zl1 to the grave with them.


The ZL1 is the best car ever.. happy? I wish i had one... shouldnt have bought my car. CHEVY CHEVY CHEVY CHEEEEEVYYYYYYYY!!!!! Im done with this thread.. Peace out hommies!

You have any proof/can you quote a source or is this one of those tin-foil hat discussions?

evangto87
06-14-2012, 10:15 AM
You have any proof/can you quote a source or is this one of those tin-foil hat discussions?

i would have to dig up both articles or if anyone is interest/cares... they can look for them. The original testing of the boss lapped the test course faster then the laguna Seca did in the comparison test. It also had a higher top speed, and higher lateral G. I cant remember if it was the motor trend or the car and driver tests.

I remember this specifically since i was actually looking forward to seeing how the 2 cars would compare on the track. The single test of the boss by itself, they loved it. They even stated it was a drivers car and you need to know how to throw a car into a turn and trust it and thats why it was so well approved of. Then in the test against the ZL1, all of this traits were twisted to now be a negative. I remember being pissed off because it was an absolute Boss bash session instead of a legit comparison of the 2 cars. At one point they said how much better the ZL1 was because the suspension could be adjusted via dash board electronically and the boss you had to get out of the car and adjust the suspension at the actual shock tower (like a normal track car).

I just laughed because somehow a boss with pirelli p zero garbo tires can lap the course faster then the same car with factory competition tires. Please.

The article reminds me much more of a presidential election. They focus more on bashing the other car then talking about the preferred car

Im not saying the Boss is faster around a track then the ZL1. Im just saying that there comparison test was a joke and biased. I want to see legitimate tests and comparisons. I want to see the ZL1 be the faster car because IT IS the faster car, not because someone just wants it to be. Get my point?

zz4camaro1980
06-14-2012, 10:37 AM
i would have to dig up both articles or if anyone is interest/cares... they can look for them. The original testing of the boss lapped the test course faster then the laguna Seca did in the comparison test. It also had a higher top speed, and higher lateral G. I cant remember if it was the motor trend or the car and driver tests.

I remember this specifically since i was actually looking forward to seeing how the 2 cars would compare on the track. The single test of the boss by itself, they loved it. They even stated it was a drivers car and you need to know how to throw a car into a turn and trust it and thats why it was so well approved of. Then in the test against the ZL1, all of this traits were twisted to now be a negative. I remember being pissed off because it was an absolute Boss bash session instead of a legit comparison of the 2 cars. At one point they said how much better the ZL1 was because the suspension could be adjusted via dash board electronically and the boss you had to get out of the car and adjust the suspension at the actual shock tower (like a normal track car).

I just laughed because somehow a boss with pirelli p zero garbo tires can lap the course faster then the same car with factory competition tires. Please.

The article reminds me much more of a presidential election. They focus more on bashing the other car then talking about the preferred car

Im not saying the Boss is faster around a track then the ZL1. Im just saying that there comparison test was a joke and biased. I want to see legitimate tests and comparisons. I want to see the ZL1 be the faster car because IT IS the faster car, not because someone just wants it to be. Get my point?

Got it. I thought you meant that Motor Trend and Car and Driver in general are biased (for all comparisons) not just these two tests in particular. The "they are known for this" threw me off, as this doesnt seem to be a very prevalent view. Id have to read the articles though, to officially pass judgement, haha.

stockz
06-14-2012, 10:39 AM
for those who dont think motor trend or car and driver ever get paid off to put a car on top, you fooling yourselves. It happens all the time. Not just chevy or ford. Its done ALL THE TIME. They are known for this actually. Why the hell would the boss slow down a full 2 seconds during this certain comparison? But this is LS1tech... so people of course will take the zl1 to the grave with them.


The ZL1 is the best car ever.. happy? I wish i had one... shouldnt have bought my car. CHEVY CHEVY CHEVY CHEEEEEVYYYYYYYY!!!!! Im done with this thread.. Peace out hommies!

Until they "GM" does something about the half 67 half 69 ugly heavy PIG of a car, the new camaro will NEVER be the best car ever, and Ill keep my f-body forever or until i can afford a C6-Z06 or better. GM you are Screwing up the camaro and your so-called new fix is not good enough! what are we all turning into europeans now???? Twisties??? I can see them now in a large all glass room on the top floor of the GM building in detroit. " well, our car is ugly and heavy and on top of that SLOW, let make it turn well instead of having a great car" YEAH that is the ticket. Or something like that. :gruffy:

Daz
06-14-2012, 10:54 AM
i would have to dig up both articles or if anyone is interest/cares... they can look for them. The original testing of the boss lapped the test course faster then the laguna Seca did in the comparison test. It also had a higher top speed, and higher lateral G. I cant remember if it was the motor trend or the car and driver tests.

I remember this specifically since i was actually looking forward to seeing how the 2 cars would compare on the track. The single test of the boss by itself, they loved it. They even stated it was a drivers car and you need to know how to throw a car into a turn and trust it and thats why it was so well approved of. Then in the test against the ZL1, all of this traits were twisted to now be a negative. I remember being pissed off because it was an absolute Boss bash session instead of a legit comparison of the 2 cars. At one point they said how much better the ZL1 was because the suspension could be adjusted via dash board electronically and the boss you had to get out of the car and adjust the suspension at the actual shock tower (like a normal track car).

I just laughed because somehow a boss with pirelli p zero garbo tires can lap the course faster then the same car with factory competition tires. Please.

The article reminds me much more of a presidential election. They focus more on bashing the other car then talking about the preferred car

Im not saying the Boss is faster around a track then the ZL1. Im just saying that there comparison test was a joke and biased. I want to see legitimate tests and comparisons. I want to see the ZL1 be the faster car because IT IS the faster car, not because someone just wants it to be. Get my point?

Makes senses I got it !

Its like that british car show Top Gear, it seems that they hate American cars in general. When they do comparisons they're always drifting the American cars around the track while the others cars are driven in a real race fashion.

PewterScreaminMach
06-14-2012, 11:17 AM
for those who dont think motor trend or car and driver ever get paid off to put a car on top, you fooling yourselves. It happens all the time. Not just chevy or ford. Its done ALL THE TIME. They are known for this actually. Why the hell would the boss slow down a full 2 seconds during this certain comparison? But this is LS1tech... so people of course will take the zl1 to the grave with them.


The ZL1 is the best car ever.. happy? I wish i had one... shouldnt have bought my car. CHEVY CHEVY CHEVY CHEEEEEVYYYYYYYY!!!!! Im done with this thread.. Peace out hommies!

Personally, I'd take the new GT500 seven days a week over the ZL1. It looks way better, it makes WAY more power, I like the interior a lot better, and from the sounds of it, it handles PLENTY well enough for my needs as it sits. I doubt I'd even mod the thing. I'm more than fine with a 100% factory, 600 rwhp street car that looks mean as hell and retains the full warranty. I'd have a blast for the next couple years just seeing what I could get out of it as a driver with nothing more than stock tires and then drag radials.

1ltcap
06-14-2012, 11:19 AM
I put this in another thread but it applies here also... here it comes...lol

We all know that Chevy has detuned the Camaro's for years... if they push the envelope it will cause them to spend more money on the R&D for the Vette's to keep them out in front. Ford for as long as i can remember has only made one performance car being the Mustang... Chevy had several thru the years... the chevelle, malibu, nova, and camaro where all knocked down as to not out perform the Vette. But Ford has had the Mustang on top of there line... let Shelby play with it, lil Saleen action and the Roush version... All the top of there class to compete with the Vette... When Chevy gets there head out of their exhaust the ZL1 with eat the GT500 for breakfast and push the hell out of a Z06 but still bow down to the ZR1... Nissan did it years ago with the 300ZX twin turbo killing everything in production including the Mustangs and Vettes but politely taking it in the rear from the Skylines...

mustang
cobra
gran torino
galaxy 500
fairlane
falcon
maverick

evangto87
06-14-2012, 11:20 AM
Makes senses I got it !

Its like that british car show Top Gear, it seems that they hate American cars in general. When they do comparisons they're always drifting the American cars around the track while the others cars are driven in a real race fashion.

agreed. It drives me up a wall to read stuff like that. I want to read about legit tests and track data... not whats in most articles. In the first boss article done alone, they stated they were hesistant about it having a solid axle due to the bumpy track (the one down side to solid axle is hitting a bump). But then later stated that even though at times u felt awkward with the solid axle, it would stay planted on bumps and were able to power through the turns and it didnt have the slightest bit of loss of traction which was impressive to them for the solid axle. During the testing with the zl1 (mind u its the laguna now which has FAR better tires then the standard boss), they stated they had to let out on a few turns because they did not trust the solid axle keeping the back of the car planted.... ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? You said in your first article that you could push it to the edge and it gripped on a pirelli tire, but in the second article you didnt trust the same car on a competition tire????? Things like that are where they swung points in the favor of the zl1.

If you compared the original times of the boss to the zl1, it is in fact a drivers race on the track. The boss proved to be the more drivers car while the zl1 proved to be the more comfortable consumer track car. Neither car bad, just different tastes.

evangto87
06-14-2012, 11:22 AM
Personally, I'd take the new GT500 seven days a week over the ZL1. It looks way better, it makes WAY more power, I like the interior a lot better, and from the sounds of it, it handles PLENTY well enough for my needs as it sits. I doubt I'd even mod the thing. I'm more than fine with a 100% factory, 600 rwhp street car that looks mean as hell and retains the full warranty. I'd have a blast for the next couple years just seeing what I could get out of it as a driver with nothing more than stock tires and then drag radials.

from what ive seen and read in tests, the GT500 is just as capable around a road course as the boss is, however prone to a bit more over steer as it has a much more torquey throttle kick to it and is much more nose heavy.

NOLAG05
06-14-2012, 11:30 AM
i think you missed the point of that...lol all the brands had several cars that they built... the Mustang has always been Ford's number 1 sports car. The ones you named are nice Fords but, none did for Ford what the Mustang has like the Vette for Chevy... And the Cobra is a Mustang still...

Chevy- Vette
Ford- Mustang
Dodge- Dart, Challenger, Cuda?
Pontiac- Firebird

mustang
cobra
gran torino
galaxy 500
fairlane
falcon
maverick

HioSSilver
06-14-2012, 11:30 AM
Personally, I'd take the new GT500 seven days a week over the ZL1. It looks way better, it makes WAY more power, I like the interior a lot better, and from the sounds of it, it handles PLENTY well enough for my needs as it sits. I doubt I'd even mod the thing. I'm more than fine with a 100% factory, 600 rwhp street car that looks mean as hell and retains the full warranty. I'd have a blast for the next couple years just seeing what I could get out of it as a driver with nothing more than stock tires and then drag radials.

The thing is it's harder address the handling short comings of the Mustang then it is to make more power out of the Camaro.

evangto87
06-14-2012, 11:34 AM
The thing is it's harder address the handling short comings of the Mustang then it is to make more power out of the Camaro.

Hio... i would love to take you for a ride in my car just to show you the mustangs "short comings" because theres is nothing short about the GT500s handling capabilities. Not for nothing, but add 100whp to the zl1... im willing to bet it has a bit of an over steer issue.

But regardless of all of that ricer comparison ish... Chances are if you get 2 of these cars near each other on the street, they will more likely be pushed closer to there limitations in a straight line then on a turn.

NOLAG05
06-14-2012, 11:36 AM
I seen your point... but still it comes down to the buyers. With the correct pocket depth you can make either car out perform the other... I'm a Chevy guy since birth but would take the Shelby in this given situation. Sorry grandpa...

agreed. It drives me up a wall to read stuff like that. I want to read about legit tests and track data... not whats in most articles. In the first boss article done alone, they stated they were hesistant about it having a solid axle due to the bumpy track (the one down side to solid axle is hitting a bump). But then later stated that even though at times u felt awkward with the solid axle, it would stay planted on bumps and were able to power through the turns and it didnt have the slightest bit of loss of traction which was impressive to them for the solid axle. During the testing with the zl1 (mind u its the laguna now which has FAR better tires then the standard boss), they stated they had to let out on a few turns because they did not trust the solid axle keeping the back of the car planted.... ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? You said in your first article that you could push it to the edge and it gripped on a pirelli tire, but in the second article you didnt trust the same car on a competition tire????? Things like that are where they swung points in the favor of the zl1.

If you compared the original times of the boss to the zl1, it is in fact a drivers race on the track. The boss proved to be the more drivers car while the zl1 proved to be the more comfortable consumer track car. Neither car bad, just different tastes.

evangto87
06-14-2012, 11:39 AM
I seen your point... but still it comes down to the buyers. With the correct pocket depth you can make either car out perform the other... I'm a Chevy guy since birth but would take the Shelby in this given situation. Sorry grandpa...

In this comparison... id take the GT500... but i would take the boss over both... but i would take a c6 z06 over the boss. See what i did there?

1ltcap
06-14-2012, 11:42 AM
Wrong. Not in the case of the ZL1 at least.

doubtful in the shelby too. didnt they run it 35 consecutive runs at the dragstrip? i think it'll be fine.

1ltcap
06-14-2012, 11:44 AM
Agreed. And this coming from a Mustang guy too.

ya know on that post you quoted? go looking through all the zl1 vs shelby threads. you'll find more chevy guys putting the zl down than you might imagine.

NOLAG05
06-14-2012, 11:51 AM
yep, i follow ya

In this comparison... id take the GT500... but i would take the boss over both... but i would take a c6 z06 over the boss. See what i did there?

HioSSilver
06-14-2012, 11:51 AM
Hio... i would love to take you for a ride in my car just to show you the mustangs "short comings" because theres is nothing short about the GT500s handling capabilities. Not for nothing, but add 100whp to the zl1... im willing to bet it has a bit of an over steer issue.

But regardless of all of that ricer comparison ish... Chances are if you get 2 of these cars near each other on the street, they will more likely be pushed closer to there limitations in a straight line then on a turn.

I'm sure your car handles good as I'm sure the gt500 does. Have you drove a fe4 '12 camaro? They handle pretty damn good too. I would love to see a test between the boss and '12 Camaro on the roadcoarse. The 1Le should do pretty well also. It's pretty hard to beat IRS in most handling situations and a car with 50% weight distribution..

evangto87
06-14-2012, 12:00 PM
I'm sure your car handles good as I'm sure the gt500 does. Have you drove a fe4 '12 camaro? They handle pretty damn good too. I would love to see a test between the boss and '12 Camaro on the roadcoarse. The 1Le should do pretty well also. It's pretty hard to beat IRS in most handling situations and a car with 50% weight distribution..

Saw a youtube video a while back of an SS camaro racing a boss around the track. Both drivers race the track and know it well.. Boss started off behind the SS. By the end of the race you couldnt even see the Boss on the camaros go pro.

Beans
06-14-2012, 12:03 PM
I'm sure your car handles good as I'm sure the gt500 does. Have you drove a fe4 '12 camaro? They handle pretty damn good too. I would love to see a test between the boss and '12 Camaro on the roadcoarse. The 1Le should do pretty well also. It's pretty hard to beat IRS in most handling situations and a car with 50% weight distribution..

Having chased Evan around off-ramps and various curves, i can vouch for the fact that his Boss can turn a corner. I haven't driven Evan's car, but i have driven the regular 5.0 and the '12 SS, and the 5.0 is better.

The one i drove had crap tires on it (not a brembo package car) and was about as good as the SS. With comparable rubber it's no question the mustang is better.

The SS feels huge, very nose heavy. It doesn't turn in very well and the steering doesn't offer the feedback of the mustangs.

Overall i think the SS looks better and is a better quality vehicle overall (interior and general build quality) than the 5.0, but the 5.0 is the better car to drive.

1ltcap
06-14-2012, 12:38 PM
i think you missed the point of that...lol all the brands had several cars that they built... the Mustang has always been Ford's number 1 sports car. The ones you named are nice Fords but, none did for Ford what the Mustang has like the Vette for Chevy... And the Cobra is a Mustang still...

Chevy- Vette
Ford- Mustang
Dodge- Dart, Challenger, Cuda?
Pontiac- Firebird

i was just arguing. :D

the cobra, btw isn't a mustang. the cobra whipped the vettes ass for a few years. and ferrari's too. :devil:

Daz
06-14-2012, 12:39 PM
I seen your point... but still it comes down to the buyers. With the correct pocket depth you can make either car out perform the other... I'm a Chevy guy since birth but would take the Shelby in this given situation. Sorry grandpa...

I'm a Chevy guy to heart also but I would go for the ZL1 because I think it has a lot of potential in it. I love the way it looks(I had a '67 !)and I think it handles great for it weight, plus its not that much slower IMO for a car with less HP and more weight, not bad !

PewterScreaminMach
06-14-2012, 01:05 PM
The thing is it's harder address the handling short comings of the Mustang then it is to make more power out of the Camaro.

As I said, in bone stock form straight off the showroom floor with a full warranty, that GT500 is going to handle well enough and put down more than enough power to fit my needs for a true street car. I have much more of a rider/driver improvement type of personality rather than a mod it to go faster mentality. My bike is a perfect example. Every time I've taken this bike to the strip, I went faster every time (and continued to improve all day the last day until they shut down for rain). Why mod it if I'm continuing to improve? I'd rather spend more time getting that 10.8 out of it stock than mod it to go low 10's next week, which I could easily do if I felt like it.

On a road course, this rider/driver improvement potential is magnified about a thousand times. It could literally take an amateur rider/driver years to hit their full potential on a road course with a new, factory stock car or bike, especially if they don't get to a ton of track days throughout the year. To me, the fun of racing is seeing improvement in myself, not the car or bike. On the road course, I ride mid-pack with the advanced group on a stock 600 with street tires, and there's still plenty left in this bike with more improvement in myself. Why mod it if I can go faster by improving myself first? The situation is the same with a car for me.

Anyone can spend money to go faster, but I'm much more impressed and pleased when I see someone greatly improve their times in a stock vehicle over the course of a couple seasons than seeing their buddy spend $10k in mods on the same car and run a second or two faster than that. But that's just me. Everyone has their own thing they enjoy doing. A stock '13 GT500 would satisfy my desire to practice and see improvement for years to come, as would a ZL1, most likely, but the GT500 looks way better. :D

MeentSS02
06-14-2012, 01:13 PM
i think you missed the point of that...lol all the brands had several cars that they built... the Mustang has always been Ford's number 1 sports car. The ones you named are nice Fords but, none did for Ford what the Mustang has like the Vette for Chevy... And the Cobra is a Mustang still...

Chevy- Vette
Ford- Mustang
Dodge- Dart, Challenger, Cuda?
Pontiac- Firebird

You keep forgetting the Ford GT...during its short-lived production, it was Ford's #1 sports car.

1ltcap
06-14-2012, 01:15 PM
You keep forgetting the Ford GT...during its short-lived production, it was Ford's #1 sports car.

isn't ford rumored to be bringing that one back?

MeentSS02
06-14-2012, 01:20 PM
isn't ford rumored to be bringing that one back?

Not that I've heard, but I'm deaf.

It would be awesome if they did though...drop the current GT500 powerplant in that platform and :eek2: :drool:

PewterScreaminMach
06-14-2012, 01:49 PM
Not that I've heard, but I'm deaf.

It would be awesome if they did though...drop the current GT500 powerplant in that platform and :eek2: :drool:

500 pounds lighter lighter than a GT500, designed for a road course, and the potential for probably 700+ rwhp without swapping the blower or doing internal engine mods...that would be a serious car. :eek2:

1ltcap
06-14-2012, 01:50 PM
Not that I've heard, but I'm deaf.

It would be awesome if they did though...drop the current GT500 powerplant in that platform and :eek2: :drool:

i think doing that would rate pretty high on the scare-o-meter.

evangto87
06-14-2012, 01:53 PM
Down the pulley size a hair and make 725hp and have a zr1 killer lol

NOLAG05
06-14-2012, 01:59 PM
i think i missed it because of the short lifespan...lol. Actually i left it out because... the Ford GT was not any everyday car you see on the road like you Mustangs and Vette's and total different pricing... The Ford GT is supercar status in my eye's like the ZR1... Would be awesome if they brought it back to push Chevy to go back to the drawing board on the ZR1!! Would be nice for American Supercars to sit on top of the class... hear that the 2013 Viper GTS has been seen testing at the ring...

You keep forgetting the Ford GT...during its short-lived production, it was Ford's #1 sports car.

CyberGrey Z28
06-14-2012, 02:14 PM
mustang
cobra
gran torino
galaxy 500
fairlane
falcon
maverick

Really? Might as well add in the Salsa lol

ya know on that post you quoted? go looking through all the zl1 vs shelby threads. you'll find more chevy guys putting the zl down than you might imagine.

That's because GM guys recognize the shortcomings and that GM could have easily put the ZL1 on a diet and increase boost.

Where as Ford nutswinger believed the GT500 would out-handle the C6Z and still think the Mach 1 is a 10 sec car with bolt-ons :sack:

Daz
06-14-2012, 02:16 PM
Viper GTS-R !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QeW4TPKC2Q

1ltcap
06-14-2012, 02:19 PM
i think i missed it because of the short lifespan...lol. Actually i left it out because... the Ford GT was not any everyday car you see on the road like you Mustangs and Vette's and total different pricing... The Ford GT is supercar status in my eye's like the ZR1... Would be awesome if they brought it back to push Chevy to go back to the drawing board on the ZR1!! Would be nice for American Supercars to sit on top of the class... hear that the 2013 Viper GTS has been seen testing at the ring...

can you imagine the crying if american cars ruled:? especially the top gear stooges? :D

1ltcap
06-14-2012, 02:30 PM
Really? Might as well add in the Salsa lol



That's because GM guys recognize the shortcomings and that GM could have easily put the ZL1 on a diet and increase boost.

Where as Ford nutswinger believed the GT500 would out-handle the C6Z and still think the Mach 1 is a 10 sec car with bolt-ons :sack:

galaxy500, think thunderbolt. if not, think 427,.
fairlane, think thunderbolt too. i can't remember if those ever came with 427's, but i've seen em with 390's.
falcon, was almost as good as the mustangs.
maverick, think grabber.

CyberGrey Z28
06-14-2012, 03:07 PM
galaxy500, think thunderbolt. if not, think 427,.
fairlane, think thunderbolt too. i can't remember if those ever came with 427's, but i've seen em with 390's.
falcon, was almost as good as the mustangs.
maverick, think grabber.

All these cars remind me of the 70's --> overrated unstylish boats.

Galaxy= Boat.
Fairlane= 70's Boat
Falcon= decent w/ a motor swap
Maverick = Pinto

Dont forget this beauty:
http://themustangsource.com/timeline/74-78/74/Blue.jpg


I'll take a 90's S/C Thunderbird or SHO over ^^^.

BLWNV10
06-14-2012, 03:17 PM
Down the pulley size a hair and make 725hp and have a zr1 killer lol

Then after that, GM will release its C7 ZR1 with its brand new power plant and the game starts all over again. :D

BLWNV10
06-14-2012, 03:21 PM
Oh and ill be buying one as soon as they release it. :D

evolve
06-14-2012, 03:31 PM
Really? Might as well add in the Salsa lol



That's because GM guys recognize the shortcomings and that GM could have easily put the ZL1 on a diet and increase boost.

Where as Ford nutswinger believed the GT500 would out-handle the C6Z and still think the Mach 1 is a 10 sec car with bolt-ons :sack:

Only if you consider a built motor and a 200 shot "bolt ons"!

1ltcap
06-14-2012, 03:40 PM
All these cars remind me of the 70's --> overrated unstylish boats.

Galaxy= Boat.
Fairlane= 70's Boat
Falcon= decent w/ a motor swap
Maverick = Pinto

Dont forget this beauty:
http://themustangsource.com/timeline/74-78/74/Blue.jpg


I'll take a 90's S/C Thunderbird or SHO over ^^^.

thunderbolt fairlane....i think this one's a 64
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7103/7187571511_1370b0801c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70148615@N03/7187571511/)
DSC00119 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70148615@N03/7187571511/) by 1LtCap (http://www.flickr.com/people/70148615@N03/), on Flickr

lightweight(thunderbolt) galaxy500...63 or 64.....
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7213/7372815920_81f10907f7.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70148615@N03/7372815920/)
MecumlightweightGalaxie_700 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70148615@N03/7372815920/) by 1LtCap (http://www.flickr.com/people/70148615@N03/), on Flickr

falcon. this one is 65'ish i think....
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7228/7372815864_85536c6292.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70148615@N03/7372815864/)
falcon (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70148615@N03/7372815864/) by 1LtCap (http://www.flickr.com/people/70148615@N03/), on Flickr

maverick grabber......72 they had 302's in em.....
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7221/7372816052_b5c09495d9.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70148615@N03/7372816052/)
1972Grabber14_original (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70148615@N03/7372816052/) by 1LtCap (http://www.flickr.com/people/70148615@N03/), on Flickr

HioSSilver
06-14-2012, 05:57 PM
Saw a youtube video a while back of an SS camaro racing a boss around the track. Both drivers race the track and know it well.. Boss started off behind the SS. By the end of the race you couldnt even see the Boss on the camaros go pro.
Yea....take a close look at that vid. They used a 10 SS Camaro with who knows how many miles vs a brand new Boss. Does that seem fair? The Boss beat it by 2.5 sec. or so. I would like to see that vid done again with a 12 SS Camaro and the fe4 suspension with a new car on new tires and not some 2yr old tires.
Having chased Evan around off-ramps and various curves, i can vouch for the fact that his Boss can turn a corner. I haven't driven Evan's car, but i have driven the regular 5.0 and the '12 SS, and the 5.0 is better.

The one i drove had crap tires on it (not a brembo package car) and was about as good as the SS. With comparable rubber it's no question the mustang is better.

The SS feels huge, very nose heavy. It doesn't turn in very well and the steering doesn't offer the feedback of the mustangs.

Overall i think the SS looks better and is a better quality vehicle overall (interior and general build quality) than the 5.0, but the 5.0 is the better car to drive.
How can the car be nose heavy with 50/50 weight distribution?....think about it. It does feel big at first, but if you drive it for a few hours it comes around. 03turbmach has drove both and said he thought the Camaro handled better so to each his own on that. Could just be the feel someone prefers.
As I said, in bone stock form straight off the showroom floor with a full warranty, that GT500 is going to handle well enough and put down more than enough power to fit my needs for a true street car. I have much more of a rider/driver improvement type of personality rather than a mod it to go faster mentality. My bike is a perfect example. Every time I've taken this bike to the strip, I went faster every time (and continued to improve all day the last day until they shut down for rain). Why mod it if I'm continuing to improve? I'd rather spend more time getting that 10.8 out of it stock than mod it to go low 10's next week, which I could easily do if I felt like it.

On a road course, this rider/driver improvement potential is magnified about a thousand times. It could literally take an amateur rider/driver years to hit their full potential on a road course with a new, factory stock car or bike, especially if they don't get to a ton of track days throughout the year. To me, the fun of racing is seeing improvement in myself, not the car or bike. On the road course, I ride mid-pack with the advanced group on a stock 600 with street tires, and there's still plenty left in this bike with more improvement in myself. Why mod it if I can go faster by improving myself first? The situation is the same with a car for me.

Anyone can spend money to go faster, but I'm much more impressed and pleased when I see someone greatly improve their times in a stock vehicle over the course of a couple seasons than seeing their buddy spend $10k in mods on the same car and run a second or two faster than that. But that's just me. Everyone has their own thing they enjoy doing. A stock '13 GT500 would satisfy my desire to practice and see improvement for years to come, as would a ZL1, most likely, but the GT500 looks way better. :D

I like the looks of both. But your not ever gonna make a live axle feel like a IRS car. It don't have the adjustabilty to compensate as well to irregular roads or to be able to independently adjust for toe/camber . This is what makes the Camaro better to me, I can add power and it would not stay stock for long.

For sure practice makes perfect.....well for some anyway.

Oh yea for the email I got from evangto87 saying IRS has no real advantage......I see you wised up and deleted where you said that ;)

stockz
06-14-2012, 06:19 PM
500 pounds lighter lighter than a GT500, designed for a road course, and the potential for probably 700+ rwhp without swapping the blower or doing internal engine mods...that would be a serious car. :eek2:

I posted a ride I got in a GT this one had 1000+ HP we went ?? 7.1X first run in the 1/8th and I got out, and he went faster and faster as he got use to it. it was in SRK section, that would be Sick with the new motor and some mods.

stockz
06-14-2012, 06:29 PM
Only if you consider a built motor and a 200 shot "bolt ons"!

LOL, Yeah... I do

You simply bolt-n a 200 shot, you do not have to break into the motor, sounds like a bolt-on to me :)

odthetruth
06-14-2012, 06:32 PM
I'm not doubting the ZL1 is faster around a track than the Laguna Seca Boss. I wouldn't even see the logic behind saying it ISN'T. Did you see the ZL1 Nurburgring lap time? Its no slouch in the corners. I can respect the 5.0 being underrated, I can respect the GT500 handing the ZL1 its ass on the straight... but I won't bullshit about the Laguna Seca Boss being faster around a course then the ZL1. Sorry, but I don't see that happening. Just don't. Same driver, I'd bet ZL1 each time.

GT500 vs ZL1 in road course, we'll have to see...
But no... I don't think Boss > ZL1 on road course.

Straight line... whatever. But road course, no.
I said GM should have made it more straight line, but I DIDN'T say they did a horrible job of making it go around corners. You'd be surprised at what some heavier weight cars can overtake on a course with the right factory tuning.

CyberGrey Z28
06-14-2012, 06:39 PM
Then after that, GM will release its C7 ZR1 with its brand new power plant and the game starts all over again. :D

ZR1 (aka exotic hunter) has been king since 2008 only the GTR came close. Ford can only speculate about beating it with a new platform. C7 ZR1 will once again set the standard while the base C7 handles the GT500. History repeats itself.

Oh and ill be buying one as soon as they release it. :D

:hail::hail:.... and I'll buy your C6 ZR1 off you :pimp:

ohioborn80
06-14-2012, 09:14 PM
ZR1 (aka exotic hunter) has been king since 2008 only the GTR came close. Ford can only speculate about beating it with a new platform. C7 ZR1 will once again set the standard while the base C7 handles the GT500. History repeats itself.



:hail::hail:.... and I'll buy your C6 ZR1 off you :pimp:

That's hard to say when nothing is set for the c7.

evolve
06-14-2012, 09:43 PM
ZR1 (aka exotic hunter) has been king since 2008 only the GTR came close. Ford can only speculate about beating it with a new platform. C7 ZR1 will once again set the standard while the base C7 handles the GT500. History repeats itself.



:hail::hail:.... and I'll buy your C6 ZR1 off you :pimp:

I can say with absolute certainty that Ford is NOT trying to compete with the ZR1/Z06 (with the GT500).

evangto87
06-14-2012, 11:34 PM
Yea....take a close look at that vid. They used a 10 SS Camaro with who knows how many miles vs a brand new Boss. Does that seem fair? The Boss beat it by 2.5 sec. or so. I would like to see that vid done again with a 12 SS Camaro and the fe4 suspension with a new car on new tires and not some 2yr old tires.

How can the car be nose heavy with 50/50 weight distribution?....think about it. It does feel big at first, but if you drive it for a few hours it comes around. 03turbmach has drove both and said he thought the Camaro handled better so to each his own on that. Could just be the feel someone prefers.


I like the looks of both. But your not ever gonna make a live axle feel like a IRS car. It don't have the adjustabilty to compensate as well to irregular roads or to be able to independently adjust for toe/camber . This is what makes the Camaro better to me, I can add power and it would not stay stock for long.

For sure practice makes perfect.....well for some anyway.

Oh yea for the email I got from evangto87 saying IRS has no real advantage......I see you wised up and deleted where you said that ;)

Only reason i deleted it is because i didnt feel like starting another debate on here about IRS VS Solid axle. I still stand by what i said.. but id rather not debate on it so lets not discuss it.

HioSSilver
06-15-2012, 06:40 AM
LOL.....you would rather not debate it because your wrong about what you said.

zz4camaro1980
06-15-2012, 06:42 AM
Oh yea for the email I got from evangto87 saying IRS has no real advantage......I see you wised up and deleted where you said that ;)

LOL, I see you did the same about bore size vs boost.;)

HioSSilver
06-15-2012, 06:54 AM
Actually no I did'nt. I had a double post and deleted one. :P

zz4camaro1980
06-15-2012, 07:06 AM
Actually no I did'nt. I had a double post and deleted one. :P

Damn, would it be to ironic if I deleted my post now, haha? I guess I got a case of foot in mouth this morning.

evangto87
06-15-2012, 08:49 AM
LOL.....you would rather not debate it because your wrong about what you said.

no because wasting my time arguing with someone on a forum is rather pointless.... and i can assure you, a current ss will not have anything for the car on a road course. But anyway... your right, im wrong.

1ltcap
06-15-2012, 10:55 AM
no because wasting my time arguing with someone on a forum is rather pointless.... and i can assure you, a current ss will not have anything for the car on a road course. But anyway... your right, im wrong.

you don't have to be wrong for him to be right.

that said, i agree with your previous statements.

HioSSilver
06-15-2012, 11:28 AM
no because wasting my time arguing with someone on a forum is rather pointless.... and i can assure you, a current ss will not have anything for the car on a road course. But anyway... your right, im wrong.
or because you have no valid points. Now I'm not say the new fe4 car would beat a boss. I am saying it would be ALOT closer, maybe to close to call. You never even commented on if you thought that was a fair comparison. 2yr old car vs the lastest greatest Boss Laguna Seca
you don't have to be wrong for him to be right.

that said, i agree with your previous statements.

Of coarse you agree with him.....you have his nutsack in your mouth.

92cobranotch
06-15-2012, 11:57 AM
Of coarse you agree with him.....you have his nutsack in your mouth.

sounds like they are in his mouth for the oral support thats mentioned in the mach1 vs 5gen thread lol

1ltcap
06-15-2012, 12:15 PM
Talk about weaksauce...........

Beans
06-15-2012, 01:51 PM
How can the car be nose heavy with 50/50 weight distribution?....think about it. It does feel big at first, but if you drive it for a few hours it comes around. 03turbmach has drove both and said he thought the Camaro handled better so to each his own on that. Could just be the feel someone prefers.


It's actually 52/48, which isn't too bad.

It could feel nose heavy with 50/50 because of chassis and suspension design. A little negative camber on the front tires could make the car feel much more balanced.

evangto87
06-15-2012, 01:57 PM
shoulda just bought a 5th gen...and installed some muffler deletes...

HioSSilver
06-15-2012, 02:13 PM
It's actually 52/48, which isn't too bad.

It could feel nose heavy with 50/50 because of chassis and suspension design. A little negative camber on the front tires could make the car feel much more balanced.

I new it was close. They do have a little push to them but you have to be working them pretty hard for it to show up. Most pony cars have about 56%- 58% front bias......could be why they're on the ass happy side.

HioSSilver
06-15-2012, 02:15 PM
shoulda just bought a 5th gen...and installed some muffler deletes...

Once the mods start it would not have been a bad idea for ya.

Did you ever get that thing to the track?

evangto87
06-15-2012, 08:07 PM
Once the mods start it would not have been a bad idea for ya.

Did you ever get that thing to the track?

Not yet... just installed some headers (still running the stock cats). Gotta get a driveshaft on it then figure out a wheel/tire combo.

Trying to prepare it for a 1.5X 60 ft. If i cant achieve that off that bat, some Strange 2-ways will be added to the back

big hammer
06-15-2012, 09:41 PM
or because you have no valid points. Now I'm not say the new fe4 car would beat a boss. I am saying it would be ALOT closer, maybe to close to call. You never even commented on if you thought that was a fair comparison. 2yr old car vs the lastest greatest Boss Laguna Seca


Of coarse you agree with him.....you have his nutsack in your mouth.

the 1LE camaro and the boss will be very close. the 1LE supposedly will run a sub 3 second lap at VIR.

FlatBlackZ28
06-15-2012, 11:10 PM
Down the pulley size a hair and make 725hp and have a zr1 killer lol

The GT500 is already pushing 15 lbs of boost (and that's straight from the mouth of FORD). No way they offer a warrantied production V8 with more boost than that. They would up the power in other ways.

2SSARME
06-16-2012, 01:50 AM
We're all still waiting for fords answer to the vette.

evangto87
06-16-2012, 08:32 AM
We're all still waiting for fords answer to the vette.

Unless the GT comes back, its never gonna happen.

HioSSilver
06-16-2012, 08:42 AM
Not yet... just installed some headers (still running the stock cats). Gotta get a driveshaft on it then figure out a wheel/tire combo.

Trying to prepare it for a 1.5X 60 ft. If i cant achieve that off that bat, some Strange 2-ways will be added to the back

So you mean to tell me you and that other ford nutswinger are on here bashing gm shit all the time and neither of you have taken your shit to the track........what pussies.:jest: oh and :owned:

HioSSilver
06-16-2012, 08:44 AM
the 1LE camaro and the boss will be very close. the 1LE supposedly will run a sub 3 second lap at VIR.

I saw the too. The boss has'nt did a sub 3min lap there yet from what I read.

big hammer
06-16-2012, 10:59 AM
I saw the too. The boss has'nt did a sub 3min lap there yet from what I read.

i know. i'm not sure if the 1le actually has or not either. gm just said it would?

evangto87
06-16-2012, 11:15 AM
So you mean to tell me you and that other ford nutswinger are on here bashing gm shit all the time and neither of you have taken your shit to the track........what pussies.:jest: oh and :owned:

wow you turned out to be a pompous ass. And when do i bash on GM... i love GM products with the exception of the 5th gen. Ive said numerous times i throw my car in the trash for a c6z06. But take it how you like.

HioSSilver
06-16-2012, 11:36 AM
I would hope you would throw it in the trash for a c6 z06.....be pretty dumb not to unless you need the rear seats. Fact is both of you are always talking shit. Take it to the track already. You live near some of the fastest tracks in the country.

evangto87
06-16-2012, 12:52 PM
I would hope you would throw it in the trash for a c6 z06.....be pretty dumb not to unless you need the rear seats. Fact is both of you are always talking shit. Take it to the track already. You live near some of the fastest tracks in the country.

ok sweet pea...

1ltcap
06-16-2012, 01:05 PM
so how did this go from zl1 vs shelby to "trashing my current car for a z06" to "you guys talk trash"(directed at guys not talking trash) 'cause you don't take your cars to the track again?

marc97taws6
06-16-2012, 01:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpgDtoj73DQ

big hammer
06-16-2012, 02:11 PM
fords are gay

Heater
06-16-2012, 06:52 PM
fords are gay


They are, but they're fast and I like whats fast. :drive:

big hammer
06-16-2012, 09:41 PM
They are, but they're fast and I like whats fast. :drive:

nah. they're slow.

evolve
06-16-2012, 09:47 PM
nah. they're slow.

Very. My car is proof.

enginjoe
06-16-2012, 09:51 PM
Embarrassing...

NemeSS
06-16-2012, 10:18 PM
nah. they're slow.

U talkin u shit right now, but just u wait til u come across a billy muddafuken ass non pi 2v gt mod motor gt with just strait up bolt ons.
Thatll learn ya a lesson. See how much shit u talken then
Yea!

Theblacknightls1
06-16-2012, 11:00 PM
nah. they're slow.

Says the guy with the bolt on ls1 :eyes:

2SSARME
06-17-2012, 01:49 AM
U talkin u shit right now, but just u wait til u come across a billy muddafuken ass non pi 2v gt mod motor gt with just strait up bolt ons.
Thatll learn ya a lesson. See how much shit u talken then
Yea!

yeeehawwwwwww billly u tell em gud
u no we aint got nuddin to do. lez go shoot up some squirrelz billy joeee
ifuckmysister
yeeeeeehawww

odthetruth
06-17-2012, 02:26 AM
LMAO I have a habit of scroll-button-clicking all the new posts in the SRK section with my mouse, which puts them all in new tabs. I was looking thru the tabs one by one... and could have SWORE this was the Mach1 thread 2SS made with the way the last few comments have looked. LOL

89ThirdGenCamaro3310
06-17-2012, 03:48 AM
yeeehawwwwwww billly u tell em gud
u no we aint got nuddin to do. lez go shoot up some squirrelz billy joeee
ifuckmysister
yeeeeeehawww


lol UMERICA fuckya! Hilarious

big hammer
06-17-2012, 06:38 AM
Says the guy with the bolt on ls1 :eyes:

you mad?