Thinking of switching blowers
11-14-2012, 08:57 PM
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Thinking of switching blowers Well the time has come again to upgrade my heap. I'm wanting to make quite a bit more power than my YSi is able to give me and I'm up in the air which one to go with.
Here's the combo: 370 cubes
6.0 Iron block. .030 over with 1/2" head studs, LS9 gaskets. Forged bottom end. PRC 237 heads, Vic Jr with elbow. 2" LT's. The car is making fantastic power, runs really good. Last time on the dyno I spit out a head gasket due to a nitrous mishap and we didn't realize it until the next n/a pull. It still pulled 903/845 on 7 cylinders.
Do you guys think a F2 is too much blower for this combo?
Is a F1X the better choice?
The current set up is pretty damn effiecient and I haven't seen too many people put a F2 on smaller cubes in the LS realm. I know there are some drag radial guys that run that blower on 360 cubes but I'd be kidding myself thinking my bullet makes the jam n/a that theirs do.
I'm pretty much set on the F2, just wanting some other opinions or thoughts.
Here's the combo: 370 cubes
6.0 Iron block. .030 over with 1/2" head studs, LS9 gaskets. Forged bottom end. PRC 237 heads, Vic Jr with elbow. 2" LT's. The car is making fantastic power, runs really good. Last time on the dyno I spit out a head gasket due to a nitrous mishap and we didn't realize it until the next n/a pull. It still pulled 903/845 on 7 cylinders.
Do you guys think a F2 is too much blower for this combo?
Is a F1X the better choice?
The current set up is pretty damn effiecient and I haven't seen too many people put a F2 on smaller cubes in the LS realm. I know there are some drag radial guys that run that blower on 360 cubes but I'd be kidding myself thinking my bullet makes the jam n/a that theirs do.
I'm pretty much set on the F2, just wanting some other opinions or thoughts.
11-14-2012, 09:06 PM
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Not so sure on the brackets. I only have to change the front bracket of my A&A kit to mount a F2 and from what I understand, they have the same mounting.
Even so, the Cartek brackets are around 1k and they work very well for the F1X.
11-14-2012, 09:21 PM
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The plugs have given me no reason to switch to a billet/sheetmetal or whatever intake yet.
I can kinda understand your concerns with the PCM, but again this thing drives great, doesn't eat plugs, head gaskets etc has been trouble free until I tried to hit it with a nitrous tune up that I got too greedy with. Our one concern has been when trying to do tuning on the dyno, this engine spins so damn fast that its hard to get good steady reads on. But tuning on the street has been easy breezy. There is no reason I can't make 1,200-1,300 on the stock PCM. But, my tuner and I have already had a few conversations about changing to an aftermarket PCM if need be.
Are you changing PCM's with your new set up? I know one thing, I am not going with the Haltech after hearing Brett's issues with it.
11-15-2012, 12:35 PM
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R U kidding? Spider intake, stock pcm, poor fuel distribution.
Been there done that-everybody spits out gaskets first-then pop.
Nitrous with the blower baffles me as well.
Been there done that-everybody spits out gaskets first-then pop.
Nitrous with the blower baffles me as well.
11-15-2012, 03:45 PM
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Spider intake gets a bad rap from folks who don't know how to read plugs and think just going off the a/f gauge is fine IMO. My plugs (with this intake and elbow) have always been very, very consistent and I will trust them over a a/f gauge anyday.
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11-15-2012, 04:04 PM
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I go to the track, change plugs-make a run-shut the car down as soon as I cross the strip. Coast to the end and pull the plug.
On the dyno-I go as far as cutting the plug and then read them.
When I see guys going fast with the spyder intake and stock pcm-then I'll be convinced.
There is one camp I know that is using the AEM with 8 widebands to log in each pipe-not the collector, but still using the stock pcm to tune-and they can back my claims-the fueling sucked. And this is with a big plenum sheet metal intake. They make up for this by changing jet sizes for each cylinder-which the AEM will show on the data log.
A good friend of mine with the Vic Jr and sheet metal elbow is already on his second set of pistons.
Another good friend was hoping for better luck with the Super Victor and he had issues as well.
Now my third friend is gonna be smarter-he's gonna use BS3 so he can control the fueling properly.
FWIW-a lttle birdie told me you can do a LITTLE individual cylinder tuning with HPT.
And they have-but on a sheet metal intake.
But HPT cannot change enough to compensate for the spyder intakes.
11-15-2012, 05:34 PM
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Why is it some people rant about the carb intake and how good it is for even flow...and it's being suggested here that they are pretty poor ?
I use one myself, and have never had any issues relating to it. But I still do not believe it offered me any benefit over the LS6 in terms of performance. I did it primarily for looks, and now stuck with it for 2 inj per cylinder unless I modify another alloy intake.
The new Holley looks nice, but it would never fit my car. And I'm not convinced the Edelbrock has a large enough plenum to make the swap worthwhile.
Plus I'm still to see anyone post any actual back to back results for them !
I use one myself, and have never had any issues relating to it. But I still do not believe it offered me any benefit over the LS6 in terms of performance. I did it primarily for looks, and now stuck with it for 2 inj per cylinder unless I modify another alloy intake.
The new Holley looks nice, but it would never fit my car. And I'm not convinced the Edelbrock has a large enough plenum to make the swap worthwhile.
Plus I'm still to see anyone post any actual back to back results for them !
11-15-2012, 05:50 PM
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I agree, but my findings we alot different.
I go to the track, change plugs-make a run-shut the car down as soon as I cross the strip. Coast to the end and pull the plug.
On the dyno-I go as far as cutting the plug and then read them.
When I see guys going fast with the spyder intake and stock pcm-then I'll be convinced.
There is one camp I know that is using the AEM with 8 widebands to log in each pipe-not the collector, but still using the stock pcm to tune-and they can back my claims-the fueling sucked. And this is with a big plenum sheet metal intake. They make up for this by changing jet sizes for each cylinder-which the AEM will show on the data log.
A good friend of mine with the Vic Jr and sheet metal elbow is already on his second set of pistons.
Another good friend was hoping for better luck with the Super Victor and he had issues as well.
Now my third friend is gonna be smarter-he's gonna use BS3 so he can control the fueling properly.
FWIW-a lttle birdie told me you can do a LITTLE individual cylinder tuning with HPT.
And they have-but on a sheet metal intake.
But HPT cannot change enough to compensate for the spyder intakes.
I go to the track, change plugs-make a run-shut the car down as soon as I cross the strip. Coast to the end and pull the plug.
On the dyno-I go as far as cutting the plug and then read them.
When I see guys going fast with the spyder intake and stock pcm-then I'll be convinced.
There is one camp I know that is using the AEM with 8 widebands to log in each pipe-not the collector, but still using the stock pcm to tune-and they can back my claims-the fueling sucked. And this is with a big plenum sheet metal intake. They make up for this by changing jet sizes for each cylinder-which the AEM will show on the data log.
A good friend of mine with the Vic Jr and sheet metal elbow is already on his second set of pistons.
Another good friend was hoping for better luck with the Super Victor and he had issues as well.
Now my third friend is gonna be smarter-he's gonna use BS3 so he can control the fueling properly.
FWIW-a lttle birdie told me you can do a LITTLE individual cylinder tuning with HPT.
And they have-but on a sheet metal intake.
But HPT cannot change enough to compensate for the spyder intakes.
Difference in all those are that I am using the Edelbrock low profile elbow with the divider in it? Maybe that's the difference? Who knows, they swear that makes a HUGE difference in the distribution and obviously my plugs are showing that.
Sorry but if he's burning pistons, its not just the intakes fault, you really believe that? If he was reading plugs and creeping up on the tune, he wouldn't be burning it down.
But like I said I know how to read plugs, and have for years. I know they are not the best, but they do work and work well to an extent.
I also know all to well the limitations of the stock PCM and how far away from being the best in a boosted application they are.
The nitrous was to try and get a leg up on the competition at TI. I knew my YSI wasn't gonna cut it, and I got to greedy with the tune up and burped the gasket. It wasn't the fault of the intake or my tuner, I was the one changing the jets....
I'd like to know more about what that little birdie told you
I totally respect what you're saying Arun as you've been fast, and have offered up plenty of help and insightful info each time I've asked for it. I'm just now going down that road with my Z.
11-15-2012, 09:17 PM
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Why is it some people rant about the carb intake and how good it is for even flow...and it's being suggested here that they are pretty poor ?
I use one myself, and have never had any issues relating to it. But I still do not believe it offered me any benefit over the LS6 in terms of performance. I did it primarily for looks, and now stuck with it for 2 inj per cylinder unless I modify another alloy intake.
The new Holley looks nice, but it would never fit my car. And I'm not convinced the Edelbrock has a large enough plenum to make the swap worthwhile.
Plus I'm still to see anyone post any actual back to back results for them !
I use one myself, and have never had any issues relating to it. But I still do not believe it offered me any benefit over the LS6 in terms of performance. I did it primarily for looks, and now stuck with it for 2 inj per cylinder unless I modify another alloy intake.
The new Holley looks nice, but it would never fit my car. And I'm not convinced the Edelbrock has a large enough plenum to make the swap worthwhile.
Plus I'm still to see anyone post any actual back to back results for them !
11-19-2012, 08:37 PM
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If I wasn't running one myself and saw first hand how even my plugs are between cylinders, it would only take a look at the fast drag cars. Super Vic JR's, Mast Carb style, Marcella's carb style on some of the fastest D/R cars on the planet. Granted, they all use PCM's that have individual cylinder tuning, but if the intakes sucked that bad, they wouldn't be using them.
Also notice the elbows there using-low profile is not being used-it's the elbow with least amount of bend in it-I'm sure you seen Marcella's intake?
I think the Proflow in our cars would kick as-I wish they would make a low profile version.
But at the same time-I could be 100% wrong totally.
At this point I'm not even sure if my FAST 102 was worth anything over my LS6 intake.
We'll just have to wait till spring.
11-19-2012, 09:29 PM
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That's the ticket buddy-there using the above mentioned intakes with cylinder to cylinder tuning-that makes all the difference.
Also notice the elbows there using-low profile is not being used-it's the elbow with least amount of bend in it-I'm sure you seen Marcella's intake?
I think the Proflow in our cars would kick as-I wish they would make a low profile version.
But at the same time-I could be 100% wrong totally.
At this point I'm not even sure if my FAST 102 was worth anything over my LS6 intake.
We'll just have to wait till spring.
Also notice the elbows there using-low profile is not being used-it's the elbow with least amount of bend in it-I'm sure you seen Marcella's intake?
I think the Proflow in our cars would kick as-I wish they would make a low profile version.
But at the same time-I could be 100% wrong totally.
At this point I'm not even sure if my FAST 102 was worth anything over my LS6 intake.
We'll just have to wait till spring.
I don't like the fast on big boost. Seen too many of them leak with over 25psi.
What did you end up deciding to go with? Keeping the YSi or going to shove the new XB11 under the hood? Me, I think for now I am just going to stick with the YSi and see exactly what I can wring out of it. My tuner is on board to do some serious testing and tweaking of it all so.... Also I am giving serious, serious thought to putting a Pro EFI set up in my heap. A friend of mine is going to use it and LMR is having really good luck with it. PLUS, its a plug and play in C5 and C6's. Keeps all the stock gauges, get traction control, individual cylinder timing, blah, blah.
11-19-2012, 09:41 PM
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The Mast and All-Pro cast intakes are in a different realm than the victor JR as far as air flow distribution. Just take a look at the runner design, no comparison. Here are the flow numbers from my Vic jr setup I was going to run. Look at the initial flow numbers:
11-19-2012, 09:45 PM
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I'm with ya on the proflow, I think it would be worth some ponies.
I don't like the fast on big boost. Seen too many of them leak with over 25psi.
What did you end up deciding to go with? Keeping the YSi or going to shove the new XB11 under the hood? Me, I think for now I am just going to stick with the YSi and see exactly what I can wring out of it. My tuner is on board to do some serious testing and tweaking of it all so.... Also I am giving serious, serious thought to putting a Pro EFI set up in my heap. A friend of mine is going to use it and LMR is having really good luck with it. PLUS, its a plug and play in C5 and C6's. Keeps all the stock gauges, get traction control, individual cylinder timing, blah, blah.
I don't like the fast on big boost. Seen too many of them leak with over 25psi.
What did you end up deciding to go with? Keeping the YSi or going to shove the new XB11 under the hood? Me, I think for now I am just going to stick with the YSi and see exactly what I can wring out of it. My tuner is on board to do some serious testing and tweaking of it all so.... Also I am giving serious, serious thought to putting a Pro EFI set up in my heap. A friend of mine is going to use it and LMR is having really good luck with it. PLUS, its a plug and play in C5 and C6's. Keeps all the stock gauges, get traction control, individual cylinder timing, blah, blah.
I have heard of Pro-EFI but did not know it was plug and play on the C5.
I have the Haltech-but have yet to hook it up. Bret's got a way to make it pretty close to plug and play and navigating it is pretty much just like HPT.
There was only a few features that I really wanted-but the Haltech offers so much more.
11-20-2012, 07:49 AM
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I was in no way shape or form comparing a as cast vic jr. I was just using them for arguements sakes. BTW, did you ever sell that intake?
11-20-2012, 07:54 AM
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I'm sticking with the YSi, I think I have lot more left in my combo-for me making power is not the hard part-it's getting all that power to the ground.
I have heard of Pro-EFI but did not know it was plug and play on the C5.
I have the Haltech-but have yet to hook it up. Bret's got a way to make it pretty close to plug and play and navigating it is pretty much just like HPT.
There was only a few features that I really wanted-but the Haltech offers so much more.
I have heard of Pro-EFI but did not know it was plug and play on the C5.
I have the Haltech-but have yet to hook it up. Bret's got a way to make it pretty close to plug and play and navigating it is pretty much just like HPT.
There was only a few features that I really wanted-but the Haltech offers so much more.
The Haltech seems very nice and I even talked to Doug at ECS about it, but wanted to wait and see how the "street car" guys liked it before taking the plunge. But seeing how the Pro EFI is a complete plug and play is where its at for me. If Holley had a plug and play to keep all the BCM's and other functions happy, I'd be all over that like stink on ****.