BOTTLE ROCKET

iTrader: (4)

I am breaking in my new forged bottom end and will turn the boost up to around 14-15lbs boost.. Should be in the high 700 to low 800rwhp.
This is a 95% street driven car with basically no track aspirations. Just occasionally beating on it for fun and entertainment.
My builder is recommending Rotella 15-40 convent to handle the loads from boost. I would like to run synthetic, so I was looking at the Rotella T6 5-40.
Rotella is supposed to have a high zinc content, but I am being told that the EPA has had an effect on them too.
Anyone running this and have good or bad experience?

Troy5061

iTrader: (19)

I personally like to break in a new engine with regular oil vs synthetic. When I broke in my 383 I was using synthetic and I couldn't get the rings to seat so it was using copious amounts of oil. I switched to conventional oil and it hasn't used any oil since. If I were you I would run conventional rotella 15w-40 for the break in and then switch to the synthetic t6 afterwards if you want.

BOTTLE ROCKET

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Troy
I guess wasn't very clear.
I am still breaking it in. Im using val 20-50 and changed oil at 30 miles, 150 miles, and 500miles. I have around 600 now, and was planning on changing oil around 1200-1500, then start tuning WOT, and I wanted to pick a good fit for my driving AND the engine.
Was planning on running mobil 1, but seems the consistence is that M1 is not what it used to be.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Rotella 15W40 is the ONLY oil that has ever been in my 383. Been running for something like 6-7 years with zero issues. Spark plugs and oil changes. I believe changing it often is more important that what oil, but back when I did my motor Rotella is what Comp Cams and others recommended for all their high hp street cars.

conan

iTrader: (5)

I'm running Valvoline VR-1 10w-30 in my 383. One of the highest zinc oils out there.

moehorsepower

iTrader: (3)

How are you breaking it in, some people will say, I have 300 miles but most were hi way miles, Stop and go is the best way to seat rings, under acceleration and decell, the rings will angle up and down and this is what seats the rings. Not even going to go into the debate of how many miles to put on a motor. You will hear from 0 to 1000 miles.. Good Luck...

BOTTLE ROCKET

iTrader: (4)

I should be breaking this in RIGHT!!!
I have been super **** on the early miles. I NEVER drove steady speeds for even a few seconds. I have a lightly traveled 4 lane about 1 1/2 miles from my house, so every afternoon, I would take it out and CONSTANTLY rev it up (4500) and coast it down. Over and over and over. After around 250 miles, I started driving it to and around town, making sure to drive like I normally don't (speed off from the redlight and coast back down) I read a lot of post on the need to "flair" the rings by accelerating pretty strong so they would wear evenly, and I have certainly done that. Too soon to tell anything, but it's definitely not smoking, so I think it is good.
I'm in no hurry, so I want the bearings worn/mated properly before I go WOT, so I will put a few more on it.
A lot of guys say synthetic is a waste of money, but all I know is an oil that is so good that the rings wont wear "break in" must be pretty good.

moehorsepower

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like you are doing it right, me......hell no, I built the engine, ran it to operating temp, changed the oil and then let her rip on the dyno...

Busa_rob

iTrader: (1)

Here's what I can tell you. 3 years ago EPA stepped in and really toughened up laws in regards to emissions in regular gasoline engine oils. Requiring zinc, and a few other minerals) to be less then 200ppm. Those are the minerals that are critical to an oils anti-ware package. To give you an idea how much 200ppm is, rub a penny between your fingered. You'll get roughly 200ppm of copper tender to your skin.

Well roughly 2 years ago now they put the same restrictions on diesel oil. Including rotella. I own a motorcycle shop specializing in turbocharged hayabusas. For years the oil to run was rotella, but it wasn't until 2 years ago our race engines weren't lasting through a season due to excessive bearing wear in prostreet class bikes. Yes these are 5-600hp bikes, the oil was usually changed before every race weekend. After some research and talking to a friend of mine that works at royal purple, he informed me of the federal mandates.

Basically it comes down to this. If it has an API logo on the bottle has no buisness going in to a high performance engine. The reasons royal purple, redline, brad pen ect don't have API is because they don't follow federal guidelines for emissions standards. That's why those oils say "for off highways use only". Those oils have hardcore additives packages that protect hi performance engines.

From switching over to non API oils we've found that our race engines come apart looking as good as they did when they went together. Clean, and minimal signs of wear if any.

So that's my experience first hand. I suggest brad penn or joe Gibbs oil. And always recamemnd actual break in oil for the first start. Then break the engine in like your gonna use it.

Cam72aro

iTrader: (28)

I run Mobil 1 5w40 because I get it for free at the dealer I work at. It has been ran in my car since right after it was broken in. I run it in all my cars because its free, lol. With the heat here in Houston and how thin the oil gets I think the 5w40 does well.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Your break in procedure sounds nutty to me! It won't get any better at this point, no need to "break in" any further.

Here is some great info on proper break in procedures with tons of real world testing.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

According to this article.

None of the over the shelf oils contain the amount of Zinc that would make it very beneficial in terms of wear over another. You really need to get into the racing "non street legal" oils to see elevated zinc levels. Better off to just use the ZDDP additive and pick up a 5 gallon bucket of rotella at walmart IMO.

Here is a pretty in depth look at all the oils and the PPM levels of zinc in most of the name brands we see. LS engines are also roller cam motors. Oils with huge amounts of Zinc in them are usually only necessary on older flat tappet cam engines.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398916

BOTTLE ROCKET

iTrader: (4)

WOW; seriously

I must have read at least a dozen articles, and none said ,"what the heck, after 20 mins., forget about it; slap some synthetic in it and drive on the interstate for a few hrs. My builder specifically said to give the rings and bearings several hundred miles at varying rpms to "mate". And just about every article states to hold off for 1500 to 3000 miles before adding synthetic, because the rings and bearings are still breaking in, and the synthetic wont let it...
Different opinions, but I think the rings are still seating for at least 350-500 miles.

I was beginning to think the same thing about the zinc additive. Seems like using a good viscosity synthetic oil (10-40, 15-40) and add some zinc for the bearings.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Alot of different theories on break in for sure, and anyone can write an article. How many of those articles you read had pistons examples from 14 different factory stock engines? All of which were broken in with the following procedure showing far superior ring seal then the engines that were broken in per the factory recommendations?

If you read the article he doesn't say they are completely broken in in 20 minutes. He says the majority of the wear takes place at this time. He also has the data to back up his claims on a HUGE amount of engines. Makes perfect sense to me. I don't usually run new motors, but the few that I have built I have broken in this way. Rings always seated very well.

So even though "Billybobs Engine Rebuilder Service" breaks in his engines the way his pappy did... that doesn't mean there isn't a better way.

Lastly... If you think bearings "break in" you really need to do a little more research. And if your engine builder told you that, I'd be looking for a new one quick!

Tally TransAm

iTrader: (17)

i run and will continue to run rotella t6 in everything i own and build

BOTTLE ROCKET

iTrader: (4)

One of the articles"
Guess I should have used the term "mate" to make it clear

During the first several hundred miles of operation, the metal parts of the engine "mate" to each other. While advances in technology mean that engine parts are manufactured to more exacting tolerances than ever before, the microscopic uniqueness of any one piece of metal that comes off of the assembly line or out of a machinist's cylinder honing machine continues to endure. Think of this mating like the last step in machining: all surfaces that contact one another "wear" or "finish" each other to the point they'll operate at for the rest of the life of the engine. We want this initial wear-in to occur, but if we try to get it to happen too fast, the engine parts will instead wear out prematurely. As far as GM small-block engines go, allowing flat-tappet lifters to properly mate with the camshaft lobes was a huge concern back in the day. This necessitated special lubricants, and also required the engine to be spun above a minimum rpm for the moments following initial start up. Happily, those days are ancient history, and thanks in part to this advance, no elaborate, "ceremonial" break-in is required for an LS1-based engine. But our beloved V-8s still have important parts like bearings--and most significantly, piston rings--that require a wear-in period to operate properly.

So, how to go about this? We spoke to Mark Chacon, Lunati's East Coast Regional Rep., about his thoughts on this issue. "As motors are breaking in, and in regards to piston ring seal, they want a constantly changing engine rpm environment. This is why city driving is generally the optimal condition for any motor break-in. The worst thing that you can do with a new engine is to put it together, fire it up, and then head down the interstate with the cruise control on. While a little bit of freeway driving is OK, certainly for the first 500 to 1,000 miles I would try to avoid long trips or periods where you're operating at a constant engine speed," says Chacon.

OK, so staying at any one engine speed is bad, but this isn't to say you can go take your new engine to six grand the first time out. On the contrary, restraint must be used to keep engine speeds and loads reasonably in check. "Don't go out there and just hammer through the gears all the time; you need to be a little more conservative about how you drive the vehicle. A varied range of rpm usage, combined with keeping it easy on the motor, allows the face on the ring to do a better job of seating to the cylinder wall," says Chacon

Of course this guy is not a MOTORCYCLE builder, but maybe he knows a little

Tally
I'm leaning toward T6 myself

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

The bearings don't "mate" either. During operation, there should be absolutely no metal to metal contact on a bearing...ever!

I'm sure you could copy and paste a million articles on break in procedures. Fact is, none of them have done it the "moto man" way. And there is no direct comparison.

These days half the motorcycles and cars are filled with synthetic oil before they are even fired! Mazda drove my wifes brand new 2014 SUV (with zero miles) on a 3 hour highway cruise to deliver it to her. They also bragged that it was full of synthetic oil! Fact is manufacturers could care less if you get an optimal break in. Most owners will be blissfully ignorant of that improper break-in the life of the engine. (like my wife). When your racing competitively in a stock engine class (like the writer of the moto-man article) even a small power advantage is a huge edge over the competition. That is why you see these guys doing things a little differently than the average joe. If there was not an advantage to breaking in a motor this way, they wouldn't do it. They have documented the gains and have the data to back it up. If someone is to blinded by conventional hearsay BS to accept that, they are only hurting themselves.

Now, if Mr. Chacon was delivered 14 new camaros with zero miles. Broke-in half of the engines the "GM method" and half the "moto man method". After break-in all cars were then dyno tested, road raced full season, dyno tested again, then disassembled/inspected. That would be an article worth paying attention to!

BOTTLE ROCKET

iTrader: (4)

Looks like you the Moto man

The one thing that is consistent in most of the "articles" is "Break it in hard and fast, = more power, shorter lifespan. Break it in slow and easy, less power, longer life"
I couldn't care less if I lose 10-20hp on a 800+rwhp engine, since I don't race for money (at least not "officially") I just want a good strong engine that last and last

I'll make sure to send Lunati's rep a email telling him he is wrong about the bearings and Journals not "mating", and to check with the motorcycle man to get the facts.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Oh I don’t swing on them… It’s more of a gentle cupping and squeezing.



No, that’s not what the article says at all.

Breaking in the rings the "moto man" way will end up with a better overall ring seal. You will have a longer service life with a properly broken in ring than doing it the way you are. Try reading the article instead of looking at the pictures maybe?

Lunati needs a new rep if they are telling you your bearings need to broken in. Google it, it’s common knowledge.