Piston Debate - Who is "better?"
06-21-2004, 11:07 AM
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Piston Debate - Who is "better?" Im building my 408 right now and Im undecided on which brand of pistons I want. My Engine builder prefers Wiseco. I do not have a problem with them, but how do brands like Diamond, CP, JE, etc.. compare with them.
06-21-2004, 11:52 AM
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When I had my Blown 347 stang I had a couple of different sets of pistons over the different engine combinations, and to be honest I would recommend a True JE Piston from personal experience.
Diamond, JE, or Ross would be my choice of power adder pistons not in any particular order. I would not use any other brand of pistons for my internals if I was using a power adder.
I've personally seen 300+ shots on the Ross and JE's without any problems, I'm sure diamond is equally good too. I've seen over 21 PSI on JE's without any problems.
Cheers.
Diamond, JE, or Ross would be my choice of power adder pistons not in any particular order. I would not use any other brand of pistons for my internals if I was using a power adder.
I've personally seen 300+ shots on the Ross and JE's without any problems, I'm sure diamond is equally good too. I've seen over 21 PSI on JE's without any problems.
Cheers.
06-21-2004, 12:08 PM
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I would lean towards JEs even though they are more expensive. Faster to get as well. I am using Diamonds in my motor and they are great too but the wait was longer. Ross forged pistons are very good as well.
06-21-2004, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 1blkZ
What about weight/strength ratio? Would it be better to go with the lightest piston possible if your staying NA? And does anyone know who makes the lightest forged?
A custom Wiesco, Cosworth, Mahle, JE (or fill in any number of piston mfgs) piston would be the lightest.
Understand that most forged pistons start out as a forged slug made by TRW, so the material is the same. The only differnece is where they take mateial out of. Its been quite awhile since I verified this, but beside TRW, Cosworth was the only one I knew of making their own slugs.
But, there is only so much skirt and crown you can remove out of the piston using forged pistons.
I've had good luck with JE/SRP, and really it becomes a matter of preference on using them, Diamond, Mahle, or anyone else.
06-21-2004, 09:07 PM
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I am using SRP's(off the shelf JE's vs JE being a piston that comes straight from teh manufacturer) in my 383 SBC and at first I had planned on Ross pistons but I got to looking and I ended up with the SRP's. My 408 with have either Ross or Diamonds in it. I have nothing against JE but I just don't nessarily care to use them.
Josh S.
Josh S.
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06-21-2004, 09:33 PM
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I'll be running the new -25cc Wiseco pistons, not much help to you now since the engine is still being built but I'll post in here after it's all together with my first impressions.
-Sly
-Sly
06-21-2004, 09:49 PM
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If you are running a gen 3 engine NA you should look at CP or Mahle X blank pistons. They have the lightest pistons I have seen for a gen 3. We have steel rod gen 3's under 1600 grams bobweight with Mahle.
I stock some NA pistons and also some forced induction pistons from Mahle.
Kurt
I stock some NA pistons and also some forced induction pistons from Mahle.
Kurt
Originally Posted by 1blkZ
What about weight/strength ratio? Would it be better to go with the lightest piston possible if your staying NA? And does anyone know who makes the lightest forged?
06-21-2004, 11:30 PM
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A lot of what you're going to get is simply a preference or an opinion.
The facts are that most of the major manufactures use very similar CNC and turning equipment and the same materials (mostly 2618) making the products very comparable.
It also depends if you need a shelf stock or if you want a custom piston, some companies do custom pistons differently from others.
SpeedPro pistons are generally very heavy, although they have 'lightweight' versions I would look at Probe pistons before purchasing a Speedpro piece personally. They're both inexpensive and strong.
JE SRP's are also an option, they're more expensive but cheaper than the JE, Ross, Wiseco or CP line of pistons. Don't confuse SRP's and JE's, they're DIFFERENT pistons varying from the underside piston detail, to the actual materials (4032 vs 2618) to the weights and designs.
Also note that Wiseco and JE are owned by the same company, I prefer JE's due to the number of shelfstock options but I'm fairly certain there isn't a lot that both companies don't do similarly.
CP has been making some very nice high end pistons as well. They are also more expensive than all except Mahle (who has several levels of pistons.) One of CP's strengths in my opinion is their market - they are involved in a lot of high end design and custom piston design and their reps have always been very good, experienced and knowledgable IMO. I can't say the same for some of the other piston manufactures.
When choosing a piston you really can't go wrong with most of todays manufactures. It just depends on #1, your budget, and #2 your preference and shelf stock (if you don't want/need/afford a custom.)
$.02
Brian
The facts are that most of the major manufactures use very similar CNC and turning equipment and the same materials (mostly 2618) making the products very comparable.
It also depends if you need a shelf stock or if you want a custom piston, some companies do custom pistons differently from others.
SpeedPro pistons are generally very heavy, although they have 'lightweight' versions I would look at Probe pistons before purchasing a Speedpro piece personally. They're both inexpensive and strong.
JE SRP's are also an option, they're more expensive but cheaper than the JE, Ross, Wiseco or CP line of pistons. Don't confuse SRP's and JE's, they're DIFFERENT pistons varying from the underside piston detail, to the actual materials (4032 vs 2618) to the weights and designs.
Also note that Wiseco and JE are owned by the same company, I prefer JE's due to the number of shelfstock options but I'm fairly certain there isn't a lot that both companies don't do similarly.
CP has been making some very nice high end pistons as well. They are also more expensive than all except Mahle (who has several levels of pistons.) One of CP's strengths in my opinion is their market - they are involved in a lot of high end design and custom piston design and their reps have always been very good, experienced and knowledgable IMO. I can't say the same for some of the other piston manufactures.
When choosing a piston you really can't go wrong with most of todays manufactures. It just depends on #1, your budget, and #2 your preference and shelf stock (if you don't want/need/afford a custom.)
$.02
Brian
06-22-2004, 06:41 AM
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I guess it depends on what your uses will be, if you plan to spray/boost the car then you will want a piston made of 2618 alloy however if you are just wanting a good forged setup and staying NA and are the type of person that is concerned with driveability then go with the 4032 alloy piston, it requires less clearance(less expansion then the 2618) at .004 instead of .005 and thus with the 2618 you have the possibility of a little more noise on cold startups. Plus the 4032 material is a lighter material and extremely durable in a NA setup. If adding a power adder tho I would definately recommend any piston made from 2618.
-Sly
-Sly
06-22-2004, 10:08 AM
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I have used Ross in all my Mustang stuff. With the 398 being built, I let my engine builder chose, he went with JE's. I think Ross and JE are equal. I would stick with one of those for something high hp and/or boosted. SRP's are good for moderate power levels.
06-22-2004, 05:13 PM
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I like the JE pistons, but the diamond rings looked better for controling oil consumption. I waited 5.5 months for a custom set from JE, but they are very light and worked great so far.
Thats what I have. 