Fueling & Injection - fuel pump booster

I'm deciding between the msd booster or the kenne bell one. Both are about the same price. The msd puts out 22v max and the kenne bell only 17.5.

I like the KB. 17.5 is the max on a walbro without cavitating the pump.

speed sells a tps driven box that ups the enitre voltage to your car 2.2volts for liek 65 bux made by caspers electronics

I'm going to go pick up the MSD one now so we'll see :) You can adjust the MSD to come in gradually. I had a KB in one of my other cars but I didnt like the way it 'hit' when it kicked in. I was also confused since it was a 40 amp unit and only had a 20 amp fuse, didnt like the extra knob either - maybe I'm just too picky :D

I'm a little worried on the current rating of the MSD with the Racetronx pump but since Jack from Racetronix has recommended the MSD unit several times I'll give it a go and see. Find out tonight if it works :D

okkk let me know :)

I'm going to go pick up the MSD one now so we'll see :) You can adjust the MSD to come in gradually. I had a KB in one of my other cars but I didnt like the way it 'hit' when it kicked in. I was also confused since it was a 40 amp unit and only had a 20 amp fuse, didnt like the extra knob either - maybe I'm just too picky :D

I'm a little worried on the current rating of the MSD with the Racetronx pump but since Jack from Racetronix has recommended the MSD unit several times I'll give it a go and see. Find out tonight if it works :D

I was planning on doing one of those myself please post about it in a day or 2, thanks.

Well here you go. All I did was put the MSD voltage booster on and gut the pulse damper in the rail Gutting the pulse damper really never made that much of a difference for me but every little bit helps :)

Anyhow, it definately worked, if you look at the pics (they may not be in order) one was from a couple days ago, the a/f was 15:1 at ~6500, lucky I had some race gas in it for the initial voyage. Notice the injector % on the lower left.

Not touching the tuning with the votage booster it was way too rich and blowing out black smoke (10.0 is as low as my WB reads) so I didnt bother running it up too high. It definately did something.

Last one is knocking a whole 20% off my PE vs RPM table as a guess. Just a tad lean up top but I think this will work - not really into street tuning a car like this so I'll hit the dyno this weekend.

It seems to work OK but I was under the impression that it wouldnt raise the voltage unles it was 5psi of boost like a KB. I have the control only turned up like 25% and when the car isnt running its at 16v and with vacuum its at around 15 volts. My mityvac is busted so I cant see what it does under boost but I'll borrow one in the next couple days. I dont know if running the pump at 15v all the time is going to hurt anything, sure makes that Racetronix pump sing though.

Thre is plenty more adjustment on the MSD if I need a little more but onfire mentioned the walbro cavitates at 17.5v so going over that may hurt more then help. Found a nice out of the way spot to mount it and it certainly helped some, so for now I'll call it a success. I'm sure if I crank the PE up a little at high RPM I'll get it where i want it to be - find out in a couple days on the dyno if it will keep up..

Thanks for the info. Maybe you can get to the track soon and see what it will do :burn: , who cares about dyno #s. I have not run my race car for 6 months had to save $$, hoping I can have it done for the HPP shootout :confused: .

Thanks for the info. Maybe you can get to the track soon and see what it will do :burn: , who cares about dyno #s. I have not run my race car for 6 months had to save $$, hoping I can have it done for the HPP shootout :confused: .

As usual its supposed to rain this weekend but that changes every 5 minutes. Its just easier to deal with the a/f on the dyno the first time (less distractions) but to be honest I'm working in such a narrow window (5000-6500rpm pretty much) its no big deal to get the tune down at the track with the flashscan black box and wideband. I'm not really concerned with the dyno numbers at all, it doesnt have the drivetrain to be a dyno queen thats for sure.

figured I'd move this here instead of the FI section :)

What was involved with installing the MSD BAP? How long did it take as well? I'm starting to max out my Racetronix and need more fuel.

Took me about an hour. Racetronix wants in the back of the car with their harness. Since the MSD box draws more current then it can put out I wanted it as close to the battery as possible. I just used the Racetonix harness and didnt use the relay MSD supplied, its only four wires (two grounds) to hook up so its no big deal. It may drain the battery after a while the way I have it and may have to use the relay but I'll see.

Thanks, I just ordered the MSD. ;)

hellooooo...

Caspers
V-Plus Volt Booster
Your alternator is designed to put out a specific voltage, generally 13.8 volts. The only problem is when there's a greater demand on the electrical system, such as a WOT blast, the alternator falls a little short. The V-Plus is designed to overcome voltage taper at WOT by stepping up the alternator voltage 2.2v. at 70% throttle. Result? More power to your fuel pump and ignition system. Unit plugs in, with no wires to cut or tap into. Includes hardware.

CSP102130 LS1 V-Plus Volt Booster $69.99

http://www.ls1speed.com/catagory.cfm?catagory=PCM%20/%20Electrical

I have never had good luck with LS1 alternators at higher RPM so I dont want to trust my motor to the alternator's whim. Nice thing about the MSD and KB BAP they will put out the same voltage even if the input voltage drops to 11v, they will just draw more current.

Plus I can crank this up to 19v with 11psi if need be and it affects nothing but the fuel pump.

To each their own :)

I have never had good luck with LS1 alternators at higher RPM so I dont want to trust my motor to the alternator's whim. Nice thing about the MSD and KB BAP they will put out the same voltage even if the input voltage drops to 11v, they will just draw more current.

Plus I can crank this up to 19v with 11psi if need be and it affects nothing but the fuel pump.

To each their own :)


I like the KB. 17.5 is the max on a walbro without cavitating the pump.


if your alt is weak enough to drop to 11 under load, it is also weak enough to not handle the amp draw required to sustain the msd at 19v.

just trying to save you some cheddar :)

chedder is already spent :)

I used something similar in one of my old GNs many years ago, worked I guess but there want much else out there.

If the fuse and the wire on the input side is big enough to handle the current load it will put what ever it is set to. I would bet if the stock alternator stopped charging the output of this wouldnt change much, couldnt say that for the other one. Thats the nice thing about a regulated DC-DC converter as oppsed to upping the field voltage on the alternator. They both work, but I have had 2 LS1 alternators fall apart at higher RPM so I prefer not to rely on it :) That doesnt mean this thing wont stop working in the middle of a pass either so you never know :D

I just ran my car with NO alternator when the belt flew off. Just a lightweight batt powering everything.
Not exactly good for performance.:cry:
Anyhow, I like the MSD and KB units.
But If you wanted full 22 volt power with no amperage restrictions, just run a small 6 volt batt in series with a SPDT relay directly to the pump. Well actually the only restriction would be the relay used and wiring. But more than enough for any pump on the market.
Some of you may remember when I used to do this moons ago on tech-ls1.com.
I ran that system for a couple of years without any sort of issue.22+ volts to the stock 98 pump for at least 100 runs. Still have that pump and it never missed a beat.

It's a 30$ mod that worked incredibly well.

Steve

Found a nice out of the way spot to mount it
Hey some one showed you my pics LOL! That is where I mounted mine lol! funny how alot of us think alike. Looks good and looks like it is wokring for you .

Took me about an hour. Racetronix wants in the back of the car with their harness. Since the MSD box draws more current then it can put out I wanted it as close to the battery as possible. I just used the Racetonix harness and didnt use the relay MSD supplied, its only four wires (two grounds) to hook up so its no big deal. It may drain the battery after a while the way I have it and may have to use the relay but I'll see.The MSD unit is suppose to plug into the Racetronix harness after the relay with the connector set supplied. Do NOT deviate from this procedure. The system is perfectly thought out and there is NO reason to change the layout!

The MSD unit is suppose to plug into the Racetronix harness after the relay with the connector set supplied. Do NOT deviate from this procedure. The system is perfectly thought out and there is NO reason to change the layout!


Sorry, its been changed. I have a pretty good electrical backround and this will work just fine. If it doesnt work I wont blame it on you - dont worry :)

Hey some one showed you my pics LOL! That is where I mounted mine lol! funny how alot of us think alike. Looks good and looks like it is wokring for you .

Actually I mounted my KB boost a pump in the same spot back in 2000 on my Z28, one of the first LS1 prochargers sold. Not many other places to put it really :)

"Since" its recommended to wire the booster as close as you can to the pump I'm going mount mines where the stock moonsoon amp goes and use the hole that suppiles the wire to the fuel pump as a wire feed hole. Unless the lenght of the vaccum hose to the unit can cause a delay they I will mount it elsewhere.

"Since" its recommended to wire the booster as close as you can to the pump I'm going mount mines where the stock moonsoon amp goes and use the hole that suppiles the wire to the fuel pump as a wire feed hole. Unless the lenght of the vaccum hose to the unit can cause a delay they I will mount it elsewhere.

The vacuum hose length wont hurt anything, just make sure it doesnt get kinked, crushed or cut along the way. If you are uncomfortable with electronics its best to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. I wanted it under the hood where I can see it and if it quits I can bypass it easily, there is no reason for me to believe it wont work just fine where its at.

"Since" its recommended to wire the booster as close as you can to the pump I'm going mount mines where the stock moonsoon amp goes and use the hole that suppiles the wire to the fuel pump as a wire feed hole. Unless the lenght of the vaccum hose to the unit can cause a delay they I will mount it elsewhere.
Mount it outside the car behind the rear seat keeping the booster close to the relay in the Racetronix harness. Both the MSD and KB BAP are encapsulated in epoxy so you don't have to worry about the elements getting inside. It is much cooler in this location than under the hood of your car. Interfacing the BAP in the proper location prevents the booster from placing a parasitic load on the battery when the car is off.

Note: If you cut into the Racetronix harness you void its lifetime warranty.

hellooooo...

Caspers
V-Plus Volt Booster
Your alternator is designed to put out a specific voltage, generally 13.8 volts. The only problem is when there's a greater demand on the electrical system, such as a WOT blast, the alternator falls a little short. The V-Plus is designed to overcome voltage taper at WOT by stepping up the alternator voltage 2.2v. at 70% throttle. Result? More power to your fuel pump and ignition system. Unit plugs in, with no wires to cut or tap into. Includes hardware.

CSP102130 LS1 V-Plus Volt Booster $69.99

http://www.ls1speed.com/catagory.cfm?catagory=PCM%20/%20Electrical
Now you have me rethinking that MSD I just ordered.

Has anyone used this item? Will it work on a '02 Z06? How does it boost the voltage sellectively? Will it harm anything else in the car (ECU...)? Where does it install?

if your car has a tps sensor it will.

they say it does not go up high enough to harm anything.. i assume they have done their homework on it.

you plug your tps clip into it and plug it into your tps sensor. it sits right under the throttlebody. it has a plug that goes to your alternator and splices in between its plug, and then has one last connection to a positive terminal on the car

for me it was really the only choice.. since i run two pumps and kb and msd both said their boosters were only rated for one pump and i would have to buy two.. NO WAY.

So you've had no problems?

i have one, but its not on the car yet since my fuel pressure is still holding strong

i have seen them work before on other cars.

I'm a little leary about taking advise from someone with such a slow car, but I think I'll order one and try it out.

Thanks MM!

Alright the reason I say anything about the length of vaccume line is a simple concept to understand, if you add to the line then it will take longer for the booster to react to the vaccume change. But if it's not even that sensitive then its ok then. About the parasetic how does that work? I mean don't the msd have a on/off switch? I know parasetic draw is the draw of current with car off but little things like pcm memory and clock memory draw some current but total parasetic draw of current should not exceed .5 amps or else you will have dead battery problems of morning start ups. I don't really want to mount it in the front either, 1 it looks not clean 2 it won't pass smog. Yes I'm going to try to make my turbo car pass smog when I need to and having that will make me fail visual and yes I can remove it but that all that work I aint' trying to be doing everytime smog comes around.

Alright the reason I say anything about the length of vaccume line is a simple concept to understand, if you add to the line then it will take longer for the booster to react to the vaccume change. But if it's not even that sensitive then its ok then. About the parasetic how does that work? I mean don't the msd have a on/off switch? I know parasetic draw is the draw of current with car off but little things like pcm memory and clock memory draw some current but total parasetic draw of current should not exceed .5 amps or else you will have dead battery problems of morning start ups. I don't really want to mount it in the front either, 1 it looks not clean 2 it won't pass smog. Yes I'm going to try to make my turbo car pass smog when I need to and having that will make me fail visual and yes I can remove it but that all that work I aint' trying to be doing everytime smog comes around.
The length of the MAP hose will not effect the MSD booster's response time. Mount the booster at the back where we designed it to go and it will work fine and be hidden.

Now you have me rethinking that MSD I just ordered.

Has anyone used this item? Will it work on a '02 Z06? How does it boost the voltage sellectively? Will it harm anything else in the car (ECU...)? Where does it install?The V-Plus is a good idea but it does not do the same thing as a MSD or KB booster. The MSD and KB boosters provide much more voltage gain and are dedicated to one circuit function. If you need a major increase in fuel pump volume you should consider a MSD or KB booster which is designed to plug into all Racetronix f-body and y-body harnesses

Thank you racetronix for clarifying that. I already bought the msd booster...just gotta save up for your racetronix setup.

So with the msd booster and the racetronix pump with new rails do I need new feedlines? This is good up to 700hp? Is that maxing it out already?

...If you need a major increase in fuel pump volume you should consider a MSD or KB booster which is designed to plug into all Racetronix f-body and y-body harnesses
I just got the MSD BAP yesterday. I noticed the long lead (about 15'-20') that goes to the fuel pump does not have any terminals or plug on it (just bare ends). Based on your statement above I'm under the impression that there should be a plug to interfaced your pump... is this correct?

I bought my Z06 with your pump installed. With that said, where should I look for the wiring for the MSD to connect into? Most instals I've seen on C5's have the MSD mounted in the front next to the battery... is this okay?

Where do you reccomend the setting on the MSD be set for my car which is making about 9 psi and 600+ rwhp?

I'm a little leary about taking advise from someone with such a slow car, but I think I'll order one and try it out.

Thanks MM!
Since I got the BAP already, I guess I'll just use it. Thanks for your time MM!

So with the msd booster and the racetronix pump with new rails do I need new feedlines? This is good up to 700hp? Is that maxing it out already?650-700RWHP would be the max depending on your BSFC.
At 600RWHP you should have a FM FPR as well.
The factory feedline is fine.

I just got the MSD BAP yesterday. I noticed the long lead (about 15'-20') that goes to the fuel pump does not have any terminals or plug on it (just bare ends). Based on your statement above I'm under the impression that there should be a plug to interfaced your pump... is this correct?

I bought my Z06 with your pump installed. With that said, where should I look for the wiring for the MSD to connect into? Most instals I've seen on C5's have the MSD mounted in the front next to the battery... is this okay?

Where do you reccomend the setting on the MSD be set for my car which is making about 9 psi and 600+ rwhp?The C5 harness comes with a booster interface connector set as shown in this picture here:
http://www.racetronix.com/product/RX-C5-FPK-2/RX-C5-FPK-2b.jpg (http://www.racetronix.com/product/RX-C5-FPK-2/RX-C5-FPK-2b.jpg)

It is the connector set just after the relay with the green lock. This connector set is installed on the booster wiring. A perfect place for the relay and the booster is the large open area you will find behind the driver's side rear tire wheel well cover. There is a place to mount the relay and a good chassis ground location. This location is fairly well protected from the elements, is much cooler than the engine compartment and eliminates wiring clutter.

Set the MSD to provide apx 17V @ WOT. The adjustment screw might not have enough range / gain to get you there at 9PSI but the closer you can get it the better. The MSD manual states 15.7V / 7.5A @ 5PSI with the control fully CW. Do not exceed 17-18 volts under WOT.

I definatly do not have a plug on this brand new MSD BAP that will interface with the plug in your picture... just bare wires. Is this thing used and repackaged I wonder?

I definatly do not have a plug on this brand new MSD BAP that will interface with the plug in your picture... just bare wires. Is this thing used and repackaged I wonder?
"This connector set is installed on the booster wiring."
Obviously you are missing this extra connector set that came the Racetronix harness. Call Thunder Racing as they have spares in stock.

The MSD BAP I have is turned ~50% of the way to get 17v @ 10psi. Only think I dont like is at idle with vacuum the voltage is ~15.4v and I hope that wont overheat the pump after cruising a while. I was under the impression with no boost the voltage should be ~14v but its not so I may have a bad box. I e-mailed MSD but never heard back, I'll have to call them when I get some time.

The MSD BAP I have is turned ~50% of the way to get 17v @ 10psi. Only think I dont like is at idle with vacuum the voltage is ~15.4v and I hope that wont overheat the pump after cruising a while. I was under the impression with no boost the voltage should be ~14v but its not so I may have a bad box. I e-mailed MSD but never heard back, I'll have to call them when I get some time.
Did you measure this voltage with a load / the pump connected?
Are you sure the MSD BAP is seeing vacuum? Does the voltage go down under 100KPa? The voltage won't hurt the pump but it will heat the fuel a bit more which should be avoided if possible.

thats 'hooked to the pump' voltage, it definately has full vacuum at idle, its hooked to the same line my boost gauge is hooked to. With no vacuum its at 16v, when I pump 15in/hg with the vacuum pump it drops to ~15.5, when I pump 10psi into it it goes to a little over 17v the way its set.

"This connector set is installed on the booster wiring."
Obviously you are missing this extra connector set that came the Racetronix harness. Call Thunder Racing as they have spares in stock.
Got you now. I called TR, Doug is getting one out to me ASAP... great service!

Thanks for your help!


BTW, any idea where that plug should be located on the installed harness on the C5?

Can anyone tell me what is the venturi setup on racetronix pump? I just want to know what am I loosing if I got with the twin walbro setup.

Can anyone tell me what is the venturi setup on racetronix pump? I just want to know what am I loosing if I got with the twin walbro setup.It's all covered in our tech note here:
http://www.racetronix.com/RX-F99-FPKG-2.html

You can go quite far with a single system if it is done right. Thunder Racing and a few other forum sponsors have them in stock. A dealers few sell boosters as well.

Got you now. I called TR, Doug is getting one out to me ASAP... great service!

Thanks for your help!


BTW, any idea where that plug should be located on the installed harness on the C5?
The plug is just after the relay. It is the same place the power lead is plugged for the drainage kit. The relay and booster should be mounted under the wheel well cover in front of the driver's side tire. There is a large open space in there and an existing ground location.

thats 'hooked to the pump' voltage, it definately has full vacuum at idle, its hooked to the same line my boost gauge is hooked to. With no vacuum its at 16v, when I pump 15in/hg with the vacuum pump it drops to ~15.5, when I pump 10psi into it it goes to a little over 17v the way its set.Hmmm.... that is a bit high. Maybe the MSD unit does not drop voltage under vacuum and it only responds to boost?

You could always use Blowerworks Super Fueler (http://www.blowerworks.net/TURBOFUELER_1.html) for better voltage control. We will look into what can be done with the MSD unit.

I actually had one of those turbofuelers five years ago, it came along with a carrol/votrtech C5 supercharger. It came with a 2 bar MAP and an inline fuel pump - thing was like 1500.00 though and didnt work all that well but it looked cool :)

My fear is the pump is overheating with the MSD. I have had no luck getting an answer from them on it and its possible its a defective unit. Under vacuum the voltage does drop slightly but its nowhere near what they say it is in their chart. If I drive the car for a 1/2 hour the pressure drops a little and it wont keep up at WOT, if I let the car sit a while it has plenty of fuel for one pass. I am moving the regulator up front and if that doesnt help I'll just rig up a dual in-tank 255 setup..