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Reverse split X1 vs standard split R1

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Old 12-14-2005, 03:48 PM
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Default Reverse split X1 vs standard split R1

I'm seeing guys run some great times (Wilwaxu, JaSSon and others) with the MTI X1 cam. Yet I don't see too many guys running the R1. Why are guys running the reverse split cam more? What are the benefits that made them choose these cams?
Old 12-14-2005, 03:51 PM
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Reverse splits were real popular about 2 years ago.
Trends seem to be taking things back to traditional splits.
Old 12-14-2005, 03:55 PM
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I don't know bro, these guys are running in line with cars that have bigger traditional split cams. What gives?
Old 12-14-2005, 03:57 PM
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Back before the ported FAST 90mm intakes came on the scene, reverse split cams were an excellent way to balance the right blend of intake and exhaust duration. The X1 uses the faster COMP XE-R lobes while the R1 uses slower ramp rate lobes. bottom line, the X1 make close to the same power as the R1, but with lots better street manners.
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverSurfer
I don't know bro, these guys are running in line with cars that have bigger traditional split cams. What gives?
Both Patrick and I have had stock cube 460+rwhp setups on traditional splits.
My former car is running around right now with 480rwhp on my old setup.
Old 12-14-2005, 06:07 PM
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Cool thanks
Old 12-15-2005, 03:12 AM
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So on a stock intake car...a reverse split (like 230/224) is beneficial?
Old 12-15-2005, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackHawk T/A
So on a stock intake car...a reverse split (like 230/224) is beneficial?
Yes, along with a good, free flowing exhaust setup.
Old 12-15-2005, 03:20 AM
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velocity is key on those cams...probably not as much as a traditional split though.
Old 12-15-2005, 04:02 AM
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I don't plan on changing my setup from the stock TB and stock LS6 intake so that's why I asked...car does have a lid and Pacesetter Longtubes into an X w/Bullets.

The sound clips i've heard of the TR230/224 cam are awesome and it would have the powerband i'm looking for I believe...wouldn't have to rev it to the moon to see good "peak" numbers and would have a great curve too. Unless I find something that better fits the bill I will probably go with this one, though likely on a different LSA than the 111.
Old 12-15-2005, 04:11 AM
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112 or 114?
Old 12-15-2005, 04:13 AM
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Undecided yet.

112 maybe.
Old 12-15-2005, 04:26 AM
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TR227/224 114 won't give up much to the TR230.

111lsa really tightens up the powerband on a TR230, keeps it from being a total dog down low.
Old 12-15-2005, 04:32 AM
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Yeah, that might be a good plan if you don't have taller gears.
Old 12-15-2005, 11:23 AM
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I thought a little more LSA helped down low and up high and to smoothen things out, and a little more overlap (less LSA) made more power through the middle?
Old 12-15-2005, 11:49 AM
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110-112lsa tightens up the power band- peaks usually sooner.
114+ spreads out the power band.
Old 12-15-2005, 11:52 AM
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From JRP's sticky on the top of this forum:
C. Lobe Separation Angle (LSA)


- LSA is defined as spread in camshaft degrees between the intake centerline and the exhaust centerline.

- Overlap is the number of crankshaft degrees that both the intake and exhaust valves are open as the cylinder transitions through the end of the exhaust stroke and into the intake stroke

- LSA is ground into the cam and cannot be changed without grinding a new cam

- Bigger duration cams will have more overlap then a smaller duration cam even if both are on the same LSA.

- The key to making overlap work is maximizing the power in the rpm band where you want it.

- Long overlap periods work best for high-rpm power. For the street, a long overlap period combined with long-duration profiles combine to kill low-speed torque

- Reducing overlap on a long-duration cam will often increase midrange torque at the expense of peak power, but if the average torque improves, that’s probably a change worth making.

- Many enthusiasts purchase a camshaft strictly on the basis of how it sounds. A cam with generous overlap creates that distinctive choppy idle that just sounds cool.

- While doing my research on the T1 I cam across this dyno in which if I recall Tony (Nineball) stated that the blue graph was a T1 (112 lsa) and the other 2 where a B1 (114) lsa. 112 vs. 114

- What really affects where the cam makes the most power is the intake timing events. What affects drivability most is the exhaust-closing event.


D. Advance and Retard:

- When you see cams specs like 224/224 .563/.563 112+4; the +4 denotes that the cam has 4 degrees of advance ground in.

- Most off the shelf cams have 2 or 4 degrees of advance ground in. This lowers the power band slightly and offers more low end and midrange at the sacrifice of a bit more top end power

- For cams used primarily on the street the advance is best appreciated. For a strip or racing setup 2 or 0 degrees advance will net you more peak power in the upper ranges of the power band

- To find out if you cam has advance ground in you can check on the cam card. Besides the +2, +4, you can determine the number by looking at the intake center line (ICL). Referring back to the T1 cam card you’ll see that it states that those are the specs when installed on a 108 ICL.

- Subtracting the ICL from the LSA will give you the advance: 112 – 108 = 4 using the T1. Or 113 – 109 = 4 using the G5X2.

- Retarding the cam does the opposite of advancing it, it pushes the power band up slightly and gives more top end power.

- With an adjustable timing chain or degreeing the cam you can install the cam at different ICL’s.

- Keep in mind as stated; most cams already have advance ground into them so if you buy an adjustable timing chain and advance 2 degrees you’ll increase the overall advance to 6 degree’s if the cam has 4 degree’s ground in.

- Also with big cams and/or milled heads piston to valve clearances starts becoming an issue. If in doubt always clay the heads and find out your PtV clearance before installing/advancing especially if your cam has a big intake duration as advancing starts the intake valve events sooner.

- Degreeing or installing dot to dot at the said ICL is the best bet.
Old 12-15-2005, 12:19 PM
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Yup that's what I thought.
Old 12-15-2005, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthFL.02.SS
Both Patrick and I have had stock cube 460+rwhp setups on traditional splits.
My former car is running around right now with 480rwhp on my old setup.
Any E.T.s on those high horse power setups? Im a fan of reverse splits. They more than get the job done. Just have a great exhaust for maximun results. most people on this board follow the trends or the latest high dyno numbers in stead of doing whats good for their car. I have had many try to sway me to a bigger traditional split, but why?
Old 12-16-2005, 08:55 AM
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^

All grannyshifting:

When my setup was @ 425rwhp (no FAST, no QTP HVM), it ran 11.8@119 in the high heat of a dog sweat summer sizzling afternoon, full weight, daily driven tire, rear end giving it's last breath before dying.

When it was cam-only (390rwhp), it ran 12.1 @ 118mph, full weight, daily driven, stock suspension in good air.

It would be safe to say that in its current form, 125mph is attainable in decent air.
In its current form, 10's would be easily attainable on slicks and skinnies.

I wish I would have run it with 460 at the wheels, but I was selling it and didn't want to break more stuff .



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