super777

ive recently come into a low milage 02 ls1, and ive always wanted to build a super seven knock off. well the question i have are simple and i know i could read every post here and find out, im just hoping someone will take a moment to answer the few ones i have...should i forego the ls1 drivetrain and go with ls2? sell what i have and invest in that....or go with a turbo ls1?

how much power can i expect at most, and realistically, out of an ls1 run on pump gas, 93 is the highest octane i can get regularly where id be driving......or would a turbo ls1 on pump get the same as a slightly modded na ls2, and be silly to bother? any idea what turbo ls2s get on pump? maybe ill fall in a puddle of money....haha, but mostly im curious about the turbo ls1/na ls2 pickle.

hope someone can follow here. as well i was wondering if anyone here has seen an ls1/2 caterham/s7 anywhere. im just starting to do some genuine in depth reading on the super sevens, previously i just drooled, now its time to be serious. i know i want at least 500 at the rear, so....lemme know what you guys think, and i dont mean about the obvious fact that i want to die in an overpowered gocart crash at 200 mph, hahahaha

chuntington101

where you from? im here in the UK! the birth place of the sevens!

first of all, the LSX should fit into the caterham chassis! basically you need to see if someone has fitted a Rover V8. if they have then the LSx should fit (the LSx is actually smaller than the rover i think). also people are starting to stick them in TVRs so there is a little more knowlage about shoehorning and the bit required.

i have thought about (well dreamed) a similer project, but i wanted 4WD and to use a Dax. personaly i would go with a turnkey engine from someone like turnkeyengine.com as these will be much easier to get running (plug and play hopefuly). also they come with standalone ECUs so any further mods can be tuned in easier. as for size, well a modded LS2 402 can make a very nice 550bhp (crank) wich through a nice manual T5 box will make you about 500bhp at the back end. or you could go for a supercharged (magi) LSx for a similer amount of power. be easier if you had the engine already but would add quiet a bit of weight to the front end!

and this leads very nicely onto my next point! is it really worth it?!?!?!?!?!?!

you can get a 200+bhp Ecotech for about £5000 (minster power over here are selling them) and in a chassis only weighing 500kg thats over 400bhp per ton! and if you wanted more then you can take a Duratec to over 280 bhp wich would give you close on 600bhp per ton!! and then you could turbo one of those to make say 400bhp.......you see where im going?

but if you have your mind set then go for it mate! and please keep me infomred as i think it could be an ace project!

couple of points to think about though! i dont recon the Caterham chassis is strong enough! the most power someone has run is about 300bhp and that was high rpm/low torque. i would go more for a westfield, dax, tiger..... as these have all run much higher HBP engine (inc. big cc V8s). also you got to think how you gona put all the power and torque down! even with 10" slicks i think you might have some trouble in such a light chassis (about 700-750kg for what you looking for). DAX did with the Turbo Busa engine they ran! also i would go for such a high pot speed. these things are about handling and accleration/braking. they are like a barn door at high speeds!

apart form that little (sorry) lot that all i can think of!

thanks for getting me thinking about it anyway.

Chris.

PS. if you want some really good info then have a look on http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/ there is a section for kit cars and caterhams have their own section to!

super777

im from sussex actually, but i live on the east coast of us.

first of all, the LSX should fit into the caterham chassis! basically you need to see if someone has fitted a Rover V8. if they have then the LSx should fit (the LSx is actually smaller than the rover i think). also people are starting to stick them in TVRs so there is a little more knowlage about shoehorning and the bit required.

i know whatever i end up with will need to be moddeed to take the additional power, and as it is, i may turn it into a spiral staircase, but im not interested in drag and big power launches, im more interested in the flickability of it, and top speed honestly. i know the v6 buick powered stalkers get up to 185+. my goal is an even 2 hundred, and i think with 600-750 rwhp i can certainly accomplish that at under 1500 lbs. as it is im going to get either a stalker from brandenton florida - http://www.angelfire.com/biz6/stalkerv6/
or and ultralite - http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/ot...19567238pp.htm
not their site, the ultralite sight doesnt work and is shitt, but its got great pic of one and some specs on the sale page.

i checked out the daxs and they are nice, i likem, but i prefer the ultralite the most. weather or not my budget will allow for that or not, ill see, the stalker stuff is definately cheaper, and they do **** in parts, are willing to work with you, and my boy lives DOWN THE STREET from them, so i dunno, ill have to see.

from what others have told me an ls2 is needlessly draining on my wallet, and to go turbo ls1. but still, im not sure. ive got a 2002 firebird, so i have everything i need, so the parts im going to use from that are not a problem.

and this leads very nicely onto my next point! is it really worth it?!?!?!?!?!?!

yeah, definately.

you can get a 200+bhp Ecotech for about £5000 (minster power over here are selling them) and in a chassis only weighing 500kg thats over 400bhp per ton! and if you wanted more then you can take a Duratec to over 280 bhp wich would give you close on 600bhp per ton!! and then you could turbo one of those to make say 400bhp.......you see where im going?

no, for once in my life i can afford to do something retarded, i want an obscene amount of power. i want to spin them rears up at 120 and laugh man, its never enough when its within ones budget....and i need to hit 200 in a car i can drive regularly, just a desire of mine, to have something awesome for once. im a bike guy, i know what i like in bikes, but ive never been able to decide on a car, and i find these, i know, this is the car for me, absolutely, ill be happy for life. even if i dont get the numbers i desire now, ill get something rediculous, and move on from that to bigger and better i hope.

couple of points to think about though! i dont recon the Caterham chassis is strong enough! the most power someone has run is about 300bhp and that was high rpm/low torque. i would go more for a westfield, dax, tiger..... as these have all run much higher HBP engine (inc. big cc V8s). also you got to think how you gona put all the power and torque down! even with 10" slicks i think you might have some trouble in such a light chassis (about 700-750kg for what you looking for). DAX did with the Turbo Busa engine they ran! also i would go for such a high pot speed. these things are about handling and accleration/braking. they are like a barn door at high speeds!

thats what makes them fun, hahahaha, after drivetrain all the money goes into brakes and suspension, again, being a bike guy, i understand the importance, especially in highspeed applications, of perfectly functioning high quality brakes and suspension systems.


thanks for the links, it helped. hope to get in touch with the ultralite people soon and see what they are willing to work with me on, if anything, regarding this. i also like the ultralite because it looks like, and maybe im wrong, that it has a shorter wheel base

here are some pics....

stalker in yella



grey



the ultralite in black, soooo sweeet, looks shorter to me....

chuntington101

sod it mate, just go for it! and yeah they both look cool! just run them a liitle lower to the floor though! they look a bit high.

i have been thinking about the engine! NA would be better but it will be harder and more exspencive to get the power levels you want! turbo would (prob) be cheaper but it to has its own problems!

the main one i can see is where the F*CK do you put them???? i def wouldn't put them in the body becasue it will be a very tight fit and you will run the risk of melting/cracking the GRP! you could go for a rear mount but that would mean running the pipe work back under the car. also you would have to see if there is engough space in the back to stick the turbo/s. i think some of the companies run the fuel tank low to help with weight distribution.

then you have to think about the piping from the turbo! cant run it underneath (close to the floor and i dont think there will be much room), so its got to come through the cabin, or run exturenly! you could fab a single pipe exhaust system that only runs down one side and then run the intake up the other?!?!?!?!

spend the cash on the breaks forst mate! its all to easy to get carried away with power and then leave them till last! i would go for a set of 17" wheels and some 330mm discs with 6pots up front and 300mm and 4 pots on the back! i know this sounds OTT but when pulling up from 200 you car going to need some biggggg breaks.

oh and dont forget to get hold of a nice front and rear wing! will look very nice on there and help loads with the handling! as will a flat undertray and rear diffuser!

and you dont need a windscreen or any weather gear, heater, etc, etc! it alll ads weight anyway!

Chris.

super777

thats because over here, im thinking, as compared to england and europe we have more stupid **** like speedbumps and ditches and potholes and bs like that to contend with daily....

im running all the headers and plumbing and pipes outside the engine bay on each side, one reason im interested in running a tt setup, and that means it all gets jet coated flat black. im wondering what impact the additional cooling will have, ive seen a 1000rwhp buick runnin tts pokin out the hood, and it was DEFinately apealing. i think there is a definate beauty in seeing alot of the working parts.

yeah i know, but also at those speeds im gonna be draggin like mad, so it will be pure force driving me, and when i let off alot of what will slow me down will be my horrible coeficient, hahahah, but always, i understand how important good braking is, i can always go fast when no ones around or take my time slowing down, i cant go faster without more power though... so ill have something acceptable at first and then improve.

hahaha, i actually do want a hard top for it once its done, i dont always want the wind, but alot of the time i would. air conditioning is for pussies, **** that. heater too, i got a big engine, warm enough. the wings i hadnt thought of, i definately need to it seems. i dont know that i would be willing to compromise the looks for the added handling benefits, or that i would even much notice them, im not big into cars, ill simply learn as i go.

chuntington101

HAHA, you have to get some wings mate! they will look soo strange out there that people will think it is a racer thats bin let loose! and they are really benificaly. caterham developed a front wing for their new 7, but diched it i think. i have seen a couple running them though, and a german equivalent running a front and rear wing! also might want to tink about a rear diffuser! these things are very efficent (low drag to high down force) and are more stelathy than wings! also a little more practical as you are less likely to chop peoples legs off!

you could have the turbos hanging out the sides, but make sure you secure them tightly, and don't forget filtters! would look cool and save you from running water lines to the turbos. intake plumbing could be a bit of a pain though.

have you thought about using a Magnacharger???? a guy has built one for an Ultima GTR guy and they reacon they will see 620 bhp from a stock ls2 with some sweet headers.

Chris.

stevieturbo

Youve heard of STS...

How about a pair of side mounted turbos lol

It is laughable in a way, but just imagine what bystanders will think when they see 2 turbochargers sitting out the sides of the car !!!!!!


As for the project, just do it. 5.7 LS1 will make a much power as you'll ever need, and be cheaper than the LS2

super777

yeah thats definately what im thinking, i am going to mount them on each side, hahahaha

99SS-T

iTrader: (5)

Those cars look so good like that. Does anyone make a coupe version? With a roof adn waht not? I was never a fan of wearing a pair of goggles or a motorcycle helmet while driving lol. GL man


John

super777

i imagine getting a fiberglass hardtop would not be a herculean effort, i cerainly plan on it. they make soft tops for them, but ive never seen a coupe version, no, but what do i know? i ask questions no one answers, hahahaha

i think its a brilliant car too, finally got ahold of the builder too. prices to come soon.

chuntington101

what do you wnat a hard top for?? stop being a buch of wimps and just drive faster!!!!

Chris.

Ps, think of all the weight a GRP top would add to! got to be atleast 2kg!!

super777

hahahah, i plan on DRIVING my car, so when its horrible out, im not getting turned into a human sponge, plus i want to be able to hear my music.

chuntington101

you will beable to hear your music, the wonderfull sound of the V8!!!

as for the weather thing, i think you will change your mind after driving it in the wet!!

500bhp + 750kg + wet weather + grippy tires = you going round and around and around!

300bhp/ton

Difficult to answer, because there's always a massive variance in what other people achieve. A good tune is definatley going to be needed.

500rwhp is doable, but for how long on stock internals is always up for debate. If you plan on building the motor then a reliable 600-700rwhp should be possible on a good setup. And a whole lot more is you really want to

From what I've read, 440-500rwhp seems pretty common with FI and stock long block.


No not really. Essentially they are very similar motors with no fundermental differences. The only thing the LS2 has over the LS1 is 0.3 litre of capacity. And each engine can acheive very similar efficency.

So when comparing bhp, you need to look at specific output in terms of bhp per litre.

At 100bhp per litre:
The LS1 would have 570bhp
And the LS2 would have 600bhp

Even if you managed to get 200bhp per litre, there would only be 60bhp difference between them.

So if FI is your thing then the LS2 doesn't really offer much. If you plan on n/a then the LS2 should offer more low down grunt, but again it's marginal.


I've never heard of one, although I have considered it myself, but like Chris I though the Dax Rush platform would be a better bet. As it's designed to take a V8 anyhow. Also a 4wd option is available using Cosworth running gear. However, I'm not sure how it would stand upto a LS1.

I have seen a 400bhp 4wd Dax Rush using a 2.0 Cosworth lump, it was fairly nippy to say the least.

I think the biggest problem is going to be grip, and durability. You'll need some serious driveshafts, gearbox and diff to handle a blown LS1. But all these parts are going to ramp the curb weight up.

I still reckon you should be able to keep it to 900kg (1980lb), but I really think you may struggle to get it any less.

A Caterham Superlight R500 wieghs 480kg, but it uses narrow tyres 205 (for a V8), has no spare, no windscreen, no interior, lightweight drivetrain and gearbox and a very compact aluminium 1.8 Rover K-Series engine.