NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

I am going to be putting an on board fire supression system on my car in the very near future. actually I will be running 2. One for the passenger compartment that will have an extra line running to the fuel cell area and one for the driver and navigator. The second system will be strictly for the engine compartment.

There are a number of chemical systems available and I was going to try and go with halon because the gell supressant and the poweders would screw a motor. But does anyone know if halon could cause any damage? I am pretty sure halon just dissapates after a while leaving no residue. Can anyone shed some light on this one for me?

Louis

iTrader: (7)

Boyce- make sure that the rules do not specify what kind. The powders reek havoc on anything it touches. The C02 is nice, but Id look into it first. Call me if youd like. Im at the shop now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

00hawk120

iTrader: (1)

just to give you my 2 cents. im a firefighter, I thank the best system you could use would be the CO2. dont us powers, it will really screw things up. I dont thank the halon system will mess anything up, all its doing to taking the O2 away from the fire. its not good to use around people, becouse it will take the O2 away from them also.

LS1swap

They use Halon pretty extensively in aircraft, and I don't believe it cause any problems with the with materials it contacts, but doesn't it produce phosgene gas as a by product??? Which is very poisonous .

Maxmumboom

Ah, yeah. Im a fire fighter too. Halon might not be the cheapest thing to use, but it is the most efective on fires in closed compartments. Halon will cause no damage at all. It is a fluoral carbon. it is used in large computer rooms in offices/ hospitals, because all it does is remove O2. it leaves no residue what so ever. dont breath it though, you'll suffocate. also ithas been proven to cause cancer in the state of california in labratory animals.( Really!)

DERTY

A buddy of mine put a Halon suppression system on his drag car. He broke an o-ring on a 85# fuel injector and an inferno occurred. You have to exit the vehicle before discharging the Halon. The gas that is emitted is not really good to breath, kind of why a fire goes out! When it was all said and done he just had to do some minor cleaning to the engine. No real indication that Halon was ever used.

I was trying to find the video, but the track crew was trying to put it out by spraying through the fender wells. Needless to say that's a joke. As soon as he stepped out of the car the fire was out.

I believe a single halon system is $300 at Summit Racing. It will work with the entire car inside and out.

Dope

iTrader: (2)

Halon will not damage anything. We use it at work for our computer equipment and so forth.

Main thing I would be worried about is running halon as a fire suppressent in the passenger cabin. Bad idea, as it has already been noted. Inhaling that stuff will basically suffocate you. No oxygen. However, I'm not sure if this is worse than being burned to death. I don't know how long it lasts for or how severe the effects are, but I would definitely look into something different for the interior. Unless of course, someone has some hard effects on the effects of Halon on a human.

Dope

J-Rod

Burning flurocarbons creates phosgene as a byproduct. I.E. when you burn freon, or it passes through a flame, the resulting byproduct is phosgene (nerve gas). Halon is a bit different, since it displaces oxygen and snuffs the fire. I am not aware of it creating any phosgne. Halon is outlawed now, since it is a flurocarbon and is getting harder to get. Now they are using some other products. The reason it is used in computer rooms is that it doesn't leave a mess, and it completely kills a fire, much better than a C02 system in a computer room. It is good in a car. I have seen them used on several carb. fires with no ill effeedct on the motor which is more than I can say about dry chemicial extinguishers.

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

I dont think I am to worried about breathing the stuff. When I was in the Marine Corps. I was a M1A1 tank commander and have been inside of the turret when the halon system discharged because of a flare back when the main gun fired. You still have a couple minutes to get out.

Would you guys recomend a Halon system for the engine compartment and a CO2 for the passenger area?

Z06Cam

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Gary Z:
<strong>My two cents: The concern about breathing Halon is not about toxicity, it is about asphyxiation. People, like fire, need oxygen. I heard that Halon is no longer manufactured because it contributes to depletion of the ozone layer.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Asphyxiation is the primary concern with Halon in an enclosed space.

Halon is toxic, but it's level of toxicity is considered "low." If it doesn't suffocate you, it will make you sick, but not fatally so.

We still use Halon extensively for fire suppression on the aircraft I fly, because it is the most effective agent for extinguishing engine fires. For fire supression in the crew compartment, we use CO2.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

As noted above, Halon displaces oxygen and therefore kills the air. Halon if you get a breath it will displace the oxygen in your lungs and this can be fatal.

We have a Halon system to protect our mastering equipment where I work. We had a big scare one day, when someone did unauthorized welding near (but not that close) to a sensor. System went active and came within seconds of automatic discharge, before someone could hit the manual override. The techs in the cleanroom baled as soon as the alarm went off.

Get CO2 for the driver compartment. If you end up having to use fire supression you don't know what circumstance you might have to use it under. You don't want supression system in the passenger compartment that will kill you if you discharge it and are stuck in the car. There could always be a set of freak circumstances that might result in accidental discharge.

DERTY

Halon is not outlawed and is still available. However, when halon was popular people were using it for general fire suppression in buildings. In those cases the use of halon in a public space is now forbidden by construction. Except in the use of a controlled room, like a data center.

As far as using fire suppression in the cab of the car the net result is the same. In order for a fire to go out it must be starved of oxygen. Whether it's halon or CO2, neither are good to breathe. As far as instensity, halon has proven to be a more potent and fast acting fire suppression agent.

http://store.summitracing.com/produc...earchtype=ecat

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Derty makes a good point.

I think Halon is more difficult to get out of your lungs once you've inhaled it so there is a greater risk.

EDITED: I stand corrected based on what Can'tDrive55 posted, looks like CO2 is also very dangerous and not suited for use in the passenger compartment.

<small>[ December 22, 2002, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: 99 Black Bird T/A ]</small>

Gary Z

My two cents: The concern about breathing Halon is not about toxicity, it is about asphyxiation. People, like fire, need oxygen. I heard that Halon is no longer manufactured because it contributes to depletion of the ozone layer.

AFTICA

iTrader: (8)

We used to use Halon systems in the engine compartment of boats. That has now been replaced with a chemical called FE-241.Like Halon for reasons already stated this should be used only in the engine compartment. This chemical like halon leaves no residue whatsoever. Fixed mount FE-241 extinguishers can be bought at boating supply stores,such as www.boatus.com

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

The effects of asphyxiation are immediate and deadly. One breath of an inert such as N2, or an oxygen displacer such as CO2 or Halon will immediately cause you to lose consciousness followed very soon by DEATH. It is not at all like holding your breath. I would not install a fire supression system inside the cabin unless it is specifically designed for that application.

DERTY

Here's the video I was looking for. So to set this up a bit, apparently one of the 85# injector o-rings broke and sprayed fuel around. It caught on fire needless to say. As the track crew was trying to put it out you'll see them trying to find a place to stick the fire extinguishers in. This car still has the fender wells so that obviously didn't work. You can see as soon as Monte steps out of the car that he pulls the ring on the extinguisher and the fire is out before his right foot hits the ground. He said that the fire managed to come through every hole in the firewall, so don't expect the cab to be separate from the engine compartment by a ton of time.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/monty.mpeg

Bearcat Steve

I've been in a data center when Halon discharged. You can breathe when Halon is out and about -- been there, done that. The side effect is not unlike breathing Helium -- you talk with a cartoon character like voice.

Halon has been outlawed for use in data centers where the building the data center is housed in was built after 1990. Halon is very unfriendly to the ozone layer. People still install it in new buildings, but is illegal nonetheless.