Just about ready to start engine, what should i do first?
02-29-2008, 08:10 AM
#1
Just about ready to start engine, what should i do first? I've had this engine in my dining room for about 5 months now so it's been in a moisture free environment. Before that it was in a garage for im not sure how long. The crank had a tiny bit of surface rust on the front crank journal, balancer part, whatever you call where the piston doesnt connect. Anyway it was the type you wipe away with a rag so i wouldnt even consider it rust. Its oil pan was damaged leaving that area exposed. when i had the pan off i removed the windage tray, the cylinders all still had cross hatching on them when the piston was at TDC.
So i finally have it all together and in the car, just ordered my intake and headers last night and i want to get the engine prepped to be started. Here are the specs
Late 2000 engine 60k miles
241 heads with patriot golds
stock rockers (would rather my rockers bend then valves at high rpms)
7.450 pushrods
cam card measures 235/235 .647/.647 110lsa
LPE high flow oil pump with high pressure spring
moroso 7qt pan with deep sump pick up
remote mount filter with 1/2" lines
ls1 timing kit
01 truck coils
Victor JR carbed intake
hooker coated headers
MSD box (only thing i dont have yet)
Holley 97ghp fuel pump run with 3/8" braided steel lines
Holley 650 carb
transmission is a D&D T56 30 splined shaft
ram clutch/flywheel
New slave cylinder
01 master cylinder
Everything is wired to toggle switches. What i was thinking i should do is fill it up with like 8 quarts of oil or so and just crank the engine over for a while until i see it making oil pressure. I'm going to be using one of those cheap little mechanical gauges for now. I was going to add a 1/2" T right after the oil filter outlet and hook it up there. Where should i hook up the coolant gauge?
So any precautions i should take when starting this motor up? should i spray anything down anywhere? some oil in each cylinder maybe?
thanks guys!
Shawn
So i finally have it all together and in the car, just ordered my intake and headers last night and i want to get the engine prepped to be started. Here are the specs
Late 2000 engine 60k miles
241 heads with patriot golds
stock rockers (would rather my rockers bend then valves at high rpms)
7.450 pushrods
cam card measures 235/235 .647/.647 110lsa
LPE high flow oil pump with high pressure spring
moroso 7qt pan with deep sump pick up
remote mount filter with 1/2" lines
ls1 timing kit
01 truck coils
Victor JR carbed intake
hooker coated headers
MSD box (only thing i dont have yet)
Holley 97ghp fuel pump run with 3/8" braided steel lines
Holley 650 carb
transmission is a D&D T56 30 splined shaft
ram clutch/flywheel
New slave cylinder
01 master cylinder
Everything is wired to toggle switches. What i was thinking i should do is fill it up with like 8 quarts of oil or so and just crank the engine over for a while until i see it making oil pressure. I'm going to be using one of those cheap little mechanical gauges for now. I was going to add a 1/2" T right after the oil filter outlet and hook it up there. Where should i hook up the coolant gauge?
So any precautions i should take when starting this motor up? should i spray anything down anywhere? some oil in each cylinder maybe?
thanks guys!
Shawn
02-29-2008, 08:13 AM
#2
cut power to the fuel pump and ignition (your switches i assume) and crank it over with the starter until you see oil pressure. i'd only go in 10-15 second runs though, as your starter will get hot real quick. after you see oil pressure you are good to go assuming everything else is straight.
02-29-2008, 08:19 AM
#3
Yeah thats what i was thinking. I have a spare set of heads if for some reason my cam decides not to clear then i'll flycut, and i'm bidding on a spare block to build a 383 bottom end so it's not really a HUGE concern but if the motor starts and idled ill be extremely happy.
02-29-2008, 09:02 AM
#5
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Prime your oil pump before you even think of starting it, check post#2.
Don't start it right away without priming the oil pump or you will damage your bearings.
I am telling you because I did that fault and that's a free lesson.
Don't start it right away without priming the oil pump or you will damage your bearings.
I am telling you because I did that fault and that's a free lesson.
02-29-2008, 10:16 AM
#6
And how would i prime the oil pump? By just cranking it over without the engine starting right? OR should i just overfill the engine with like 14qts of oil, crank it once, then drain the oil to be sure that the engines bearigns were already in oil?
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02-29-2008, 08:59 PM
#9
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Yeah thats what i was thinking. I have a spare set of heads if for some reason my cam decides not to clear then i'll flycut, and i'm bidding on a spare block to build a 383 bottom end so it's not really a HUGE concern but if the motor starts and idled ill be extremely happy.
02-29-2008, 10:19 PM
#11
hijack on I came to this site because I "thought" it was the best place to gather great info. I have asked a few questions, got different answers to those questions. I am not sure how to take that info. Now I read that you must have spent considerable money on the parts and build for this motor. Then you plan to have a spare set of heads in case the valves hit the pistons? WTF? What is so difficult about degreeing that cam, then checking PTV clearance? I'm blown away. hijack off
I bought this engine from Ebay. Took a hit in the crank pulley/oil pan. It was supposedly a 99 with 60k but i've found its a late 2000 earlly 2001 since then. It was complete with harness and i paid $710 for it. Sold all the EFI stuff for $510. So this is a $200 ls1 long block. The block lost half a bolt hole to the oil pan in the collision and the timing cover as well. It's otherwise in great condtion. 241 heads, crosshatching still on cylinder walls nothing abnormal about the rods/crank/bearings that i could tell. Turns over fine.
Anyway to properly check PTVC i need to remove the heads and check it with clay. That's $100 in gaskets and $100 in bolts at minimun. valves dont hit turning it over by hand so that's good enough risk for me. Even if i measure and it's just barely within tollerance they could still hit for whatever reason or even if i made an error in checking then i could ruin a set of heads and waste a set of gaskets and bolts. I got a spare set of 241s for $100 that i'm going to slightly port and polish myself that i can just throw on there if/when the valves do bend but i will KNOW to flycut for sure when i do so. When i decide to change the heads i will also flycut at the same time.
If i remove the heads to check PTVC that's an automatic $200 wasted for peace of mind. I'll take the risk as from all the calculations i have been checking on i am still within i think it was like .072 on the intake and i forget what the exhaust was but i know there was a chart on here i searched for and matched my specs up as it's based on duration more so than max lift and mine was close but withing the safe range. So if my valves hit and bend, ill send the heads with the bent valves out, have them milled, machined for bigger valves, and port them as well and still retain a spare set of heads.
The shortblock is also a toss up to me. It looks perfectly fine but all I'm hoping is to get this engine to fire and idle and listen. The entire engine was basically a template for the install for me. A motivation tool if you will. It'll take me less than an hour to remove this engine should problems arise.
Also i keep reading about this degreeing of the cam. I was told to line mine up dot to dot that it's a 110+4 LSA so the advance should already be built in correct?
03-01-2008, 02:45 PM
#12
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Yep, it has the 4* in it. If you degree it, I'll bet it is off to some extent. Every degree equals about .007" in PTV clearance. You dont need to pull the heads to check the clearance. Get the timing cover off and the valve cover. Hang a degree wheel and get a dial indicator on the rocker. Find TDC with a stop and go at it.
03-01-2008, 04:36 PM
#13
What i did is line it up dot to dot, before i put the springs on, installed 2 rockers on the #1 cylinder and then dropped the valves down. I remember there was barely any distance between the rocker and the valve stem on the intake side but there was a noticable bit on the exhaust. This should leave me roughly .070 or something since there would be no preload on the lifters correct?
03-01-2008, 09:44 PM
#14
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What i did is line it up dot to dot, before i put the springs on, installed 2 rockers on the #1 cylinder and then dropped the valves down. I remember there was barely any distance between the rocker and the valve stem on the intake side but there was a noticable bit on the exhaust. This should leave me roughly .070 or something since there would be no preload on the lifters correct?
Without knowing exactly where TDC is, and where the ICL of the cam is exactly, you are just taking a wild guess as to the clearance. It needs to be checked at least 10* before and after TDC in two degree increments. The intake valve will start to drop fast once it has reached the ramp on the lobe, and chase the piston pretty quick. Remember, it will start to open just before TDC, and the piston will have some dwell. A dial indicator on the rocker, a set of checker springs, and a lifter you are sure will not preload are what you need. A solid lifter or a modified lifter to be solid is best. A pumped up lifter with soft checker springs should work ok as well.
Without knowing exactly where TDC is, and where the ICL of the cam is exactly, you are just taking a wild guess as to the clearance. It needs to be checked at least 10* before and after TDC in two degree increments. The intake valve will start to drop fast once it has reached the ramp on the lobe, and chase the piston pretty quick. Remember, it will start to open just before TDC, and the piston will have some dwell. A dial indicator on the rocker, a set of checker springs, and a lifter you are sure will not preload are what you need. A solid lifter or a modified lifter to be solid is best. A pumped up lifter with soft checker springs should work ok as well.
03-01-2008, 11:06 PM
#15
OMFG! are you kidding me, just stick a grenade on the thing, pull the pin and run away and save yourself the trouble of waiting to get that thing running to realize its going to blow up. your going to cost yourself so much more time and money not doing it right the first time. get the cam degreed in properly, check your clearences the correct way, flycut if needed (good chance of it) put it together and be happy. instead of bending valves, ruining pistons, possibly bending a connecting rod (yes ive seen it happen by hitting valves)im sure thers been enough people out here that hve tried to cut corners and screwed themselves over that will tell you to just do it right the first time. going fast is not cheap,if your afraid of 200 dollars hold off till you can afford to do it correctly. you will be thankful you did
03-02-2008, 05:48 AM
#17
Doubling the amount of oil in the pan is not the recommended way to prime the system. Just because 7 qts. is good doen't mean 14 is better. Keep adding oil and eventually you'd hydraulic the thing by overfilling it and at that point $200.00 for a set of gastkets would be the least of your worries.
03-02-2008, 08:59 AM
#18
I had read here on 'the over fill method' to get the oil pump to prime wasnt sure if that's how i should try it. I'll just add the normal ammount and crank until i see pressure.
It's not just $200. If i pull the heads, I'll be wanting to put my ported 241s on as well as new lifters, and flycutting all at once. It's time and money and I'd like to see the rest of the car all together, wired up, driveshaft made, interior back together. I know its a horrible i idea to assume that this setup will fit but from what i have read, figured, and been told there is no reason this setup shouldn't clear. Patrick G said it should BARELY clear in one thread i posted. If he thinks barely and it barely doesnt that to me would be minimal damage to the engine. It's faster to swap the heads than to pull the engine and remove the entire front of my engine just to check and see as my front oil pan bolts are inaccessable with how this engine sits on my k member.
It's not just $200. If i pull the heads, I'll be wanting to put my ported 241s on as well as new lifters, and flycutting all at once. It's time and money and I'd like to see the rest of the car all together, wired up, driveshaft made, interior back together. I know its a horrible i idea to assume that this setup will fit but from what i have read, figured, and been told there is no reason this setup shouldn't clear. Patrick G said it should BARELY clear in one thread i posted. If he thinks barely and it barely doesnt that to me would be minimal damage to the engine. It's faster to swap the heads than to pull the engine and remove the entire front of my engine just to check and see as my front oil pan bolts are inaccessable with how this engine sits on my k member.
03-02-2008, 10:33 AM
#19
you just said it yourself "its a horrible idea" then DONT DO IT!!! how do you think an aluminum piston is going to hold up against a steel valve WHEN they meet? not very good, then you will be posting on here that you broke a piston, ruined your heads and you have to pull the motor for a complete rebuild. STOP AND DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!!!