Help Me Build a Chevy 350
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Help Me Build a Chevy 350
Basically this is first engine I've ever built and I wanna do it right. I know this is LS1tech, but most of you guys were working on engines long before the LS1 and I need some advice. I'm looking for 400-450 HP and torque to match. The reason I'm doing this is because I wanna know the process so I can do it myself later on.
I'll be making a few posts, one here in internal engine, one in external engine, one in the Texas Forums, and one in fueling & injection having to do with this project. If anyone feels that I shouldn't post this in any section feel free to let me know and guide me towards another site with tech such as we have here.
So what I have: My work gave me a 350 I suspect came out of a '80's Suburban, has 2 bolt main, have both heads complete & valve covers, crank, lifters, rocker arms, pushrods, cam, and oil pan. Looks to be in pretty good condition, tomorrow I'm gonna call a few machine shops to take it to to get it cleaned up and checked for cracks. What in your opinion should I fool with to attain 400-450HP/torque in coordination with boltons? (I'd rather not dump $2000 into the heads.) It needs a rebuild. I do work with and around mechanics so I have tools to do things such as a cam install at the moment.
I'll be making a few posts, one here in internal engine, one in external engine, one in the Texas Forums, and one in fueling & injection having to do with this project. If anyone feels that I shouldn't post this in any section feel free to let me know and guide me towards another site with tech such as we have here.
So what I have: My work gave me a 350 I suspect came out of a '80's Suburban, has 2 bolt main, have both heads complete & valve covers, crank, lifters, rocker arms, pushrods, cam, and oil pan. Looks to be in pretty good condition, tomorrow I'm gonna call a few machine shops to take it to to get it cleaned up and checked for cracks. What in your opinion should I fool with to attain 400-450HP/torque in coordination with boltons? (I'd rather not dump $2000 into the heads.) It needs a rebuild. I do work with and around mechanics so I have tools to do things such as a cam install at the moment.
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
for a simple list of major items, check out Edlebrocks performer plus package, it should include an intake manifold, cam stuff, heads and maybe a carb even... i doubt u'll get more than 350-375hp/tq from a basic 350... if ur rebuilding anyway, there r some inexpensive stroker cranks out there to get u a 383 (with a .030 overbore), which will get u the power u want...
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
With a gen 1 small block it is going to take a set of aftermarket heads or at least a set of Vortec heads to make anywhere near that power. It is all about air in and air out. That's why LS1's can make so much power. Their heads are so good. Find someone that has a lot of back issues of Car Craft or High Performance Chevy magazines. They are full of articles on building what you are looking for.
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
for a simple list of major items, check out Edlebrocks performer plus package, it should include an intake manifold, cam stuff, heads and maybe a carb even... i doubt u'll get more than 350-375hp/tq from a basic 350... if ur rebuilding anyway, there r some inexpensive stroker cranks out there to get u a 383 (with a .030 overbore), which will get u the power u want...
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
for a simple list of major items, check out Edlebrocks performer plus package, it should include an intake manifold, cam stuff, heads and maybe a carb even... i doubt u'll get more than 350-375hp/tq from a basic 350... if ur rebuilding anyway, there r some inexpensive stroker cranks out there to get u a 383 (with a .030 overbore), which will get u the power u want...
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
Your fuel system choice should really be driven by what intentions you have for the vehicle. Is this a daily driver car, or a toy? Something you're going to go to the track in, or something that will be used only on the street? All things being equal, you're going to get better driveability, throttle response, road manners, and economy out of a fuel injection setup. However, with a carb comes much simpler operation, and much easier tuning. Don't forget about the complexity of the sensors required for fuel injection.
I would also consider the cost factor between the two. Depending on what kind of engine management controls you plan to utilize, either to retro-fit a GM production fuel injection system or use an aftermarket stand-alone system, you have some serious costs involved, the totals can climb toward $2000. A carb sits right on the intake for $400 and runs right out of the box.
I would also consider the cost factor between the two. Depending on what kind of engine management controls you plan to utilize, either to retro-fit a GM production fuel injection system or use an aftermarket stand-alone system, you have some serious costs involved, the totals can climb toward $2000. A carb sits right on the intake for $400 and runs right out of the box.
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
Stock TPI is too restrictive don't waste your time or money on it. If you want a TPI like set up go mini-ram.
If you want that 350/383/396/400 whatever it turns out to be really make power check out ProAction Cylinder heads. Air Flow Research - AFR used to be one US distributer. The heads are out of New Zealand.
http://www.protopline.com
Friend of mine thats a professional engine builder said for the money the ProActions are one of the very best iron heads. They will make more power than a Vortec. They probably aren't as street friend as Vortec.
Of course read up before deciding what you want to do.
If you want that 350/383/396/400 whatever it turns out to be really make power check out ProAction Cylinder heads. Air Flow Research - AFR used to be one US distributer. The heads are out of New Zealand.
http://www.protopline.com
Friend of mine thats a professional engine builder said for the money the ProActions are one of the very best iron heads. They will make more power than a Vortec. They probably aren't as street friend as Vortec.
Of course read up before deciding what you want to do.
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
If I was building a 350 I would stroke to 383, use vortec heads, Edelbrock RPM manifold, Holley 750 double pumper, Comp Cams 280, 1.6 rockers, good windage tray, MSD sparks, Equal length 1 3/4 headers, long rods, 9.5:1 or 10:1 compression.
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
Thanks for all the replies guys, I really thought that a carb would be better for me. It has to be somewhat streetable, but I'm thinking 90% track.
I knew I was gonna need new heads, I just don't wanna dump $3k on them. Keep them coming.
I knew I was gonna need new heads, I just don't wanna dump $3k on them. Keep them coming.
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
<-- brother has same exact motor dalemx just listed sept with forged piston/rods and a pretty strong cast stock stroke crank.. 357ci (bored .040 over).. other than that.
Slp 1 3/4 headers
Holley dual feed 750cfm carb
protopline vortec heads (3 angle valvejob, bowl work)
msd ignition
1.6 rockers
performer rpm intake
9.72:1 compression
All this through a mcleod dual disk into a t-56 through a 4th gen lt1 drivetrain. This is in a 1984 camaro.. cam has a good sounding idle, but the car is very drivable. Easy 400hp even at 357 ci instead of 383.
Shortblock was $1050.. You could skimp out and get hyper pistons probably and be alright at those power levels.. makes peak power just before or right around 6k rpm.. Not a shabby setup. I'd guess $2500-$3000 to do that combo, and do it right..
Slp 1 3/4 headers
Holley dual feed 750cfm carb
protopline vortec heads (3 angle valvejob, bowl work)
msd ignition
1.6 rockers
performer rpm intake
9.72:1 compression
All this through a mcleod dual disk into a t-56 through a 4th gen lt1 drivetrain. This is in a 1984 camaro.. cam has a good sounding idle, but the car is very drivable. Easy 400hp even at 357 ci instead of 383.
Shortblock was $1050.. You could skimp out and get hyper pistons probably and be alright at those power levels.. makes peak power just before or right around 6k rpm.. Not a shabby setup. I'd guess $2500-$3000 to do that combo, and do it right..
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
I'm "Old School" as some "Young Blods" would put it. i've built a few SBC's. Here is what i would do:
First the HEADS, get them magnafluxed to check for cracks. If OK get a prof. porting and polish job. Go bigger valves like 2.02's dump the 1.94.
3 angle valve job, Comp. Magnum roller rokers, double rings, titanium retainers, undercut valves and hardened prods. (Cheaper than buying A/M heads)
For the block: Hot tanked, blablabla. DO NOT bore unless necessary. If so do the least amount possible and match the pistons to the bore (Bored.02 means .02 larger pistons). Don.t oversize rings, they will leak after a while. Try to get 10/1 Comp ratio (OK with 93 octane) with flat tops. (Get a whole short block kit: pistons, rods, bearings, pins etc...). Get the crank cleaned, checked and balanced.(Very important).
Now for the cam I will leave that up to you, check Lunati or Comp cams they have good Kits.(Get it degreed)
Keep in mind that you will have an auto and you want the damn thing to idle. Don't over do it.Also get a good crank dampner like fluiddampner or so, remember balance and flow is the issue, vibrations kill. (Get the whole thing Blueprinted and Balanced)
As for the bolt on goodies, depending on your Cam, if you go track, i'd get a single plenum manifold (LOTS of Torque at high Rpm) with a 750 double pumper (Get it tuned for ur cam with right jetting Etc..). If u don't go rad on your cam then go with a dual plenum (Like performer).
Base your bolt ons on your cam selection!!
Headers: Get Tuned LTs with 1 3/4 primaries. True duals with X or H pipe into bullets for street or no muffs for track (Open Headers)
Now you got to hook that stuff to the pavement via TH400, HiStall TC, (Strong rear end)12 bolt and all the other stuff your ride will require.
In all with a similar set up u can pull 400hps easy and more. As mentionned above, Flow is important but also to match all your parts for the job you need that motor to do.
Reasearch and ask around then make your decision. Plenty of "Old hags like myself around".
Oh and you should be looking at 3000 to 3500 bucks for a reliable set up.
Final advice "Don't take short cuts" you'll end up paying more at the end.
First the HEADS, get them magnafluxed to check for cracks. If OK get a prof. porting and polish job. Go bigger valves like 2.02's dump the 1.94.
3 angle valve job, Comp. Magnum roller rokers, double rings, titanium retainers, undercut valves and hardened prods. (Cheaper than buying A/M heads)
For the block: Hot tanked, blablabla. DO NOT bore unless necessary. If so do the least amount possible and match the pistons to the bore (Bored.02 means .02 larger pistons). Don.t oversize rings, they will leak after a while. Try to get 10/1 Comp ratio (OK with 93 octane) with flat tops. (Get a whole short block kit: pistons, rods, bearings, pins etc...). Get the crank cleaned, checked and balanced.(Very important).
Now for the cam I will leave that up to you, check Lunati or Comp cams they have good Kits.(Get it degreed)
Keep in mind that you will have an auto and you want the damn thing to idle. Don't over do it.Also get a good crank dampner like fluiddampner or so, remember balance and flow is the issue, vibrations kill. (Get the whole thing Blueprinted and Balanced)
As for the bolt on goodies, depending on your Cam, if you go track, i'd get a single plenum manifold (LOTS of Torque at high Rpm) with a 750 double pumper (Get it tuned for ur cam with right jetting Etc..). If u don't go rad on your cam then go with a dual plenum (Like performer).
Base your bolt ons on your cam selection!!
Headers: Get Tuned LTs with 1 3/4 primaries. True duals with X or H pipe into bullets for street or no muffs for track (Open Headers)
Now you got to hook that stuff to the pavement via TH400, HiStall TC, (Strong rear end)12 bolt and all the other stuff your ride will require.
In all with a similar set up u can pull 400hps easy and more. As mentionned above, Flow is important but also to match all your parts for the job you need that motor to do.
Reasearch and ask around then make your decision. Plenty of "Old hags like myself around".
Oh and you should be looking at 3000 to 3500 bucks for a reliable set up.
Final advice "Don't take short cuts" you'll end up paying more at the end.
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
I'm "Old School" as some "Young Blods" would put it. i've built a few SBC's. Here is what i would do:
First the HEADS, get them magnafluxed to check for cracks. If OK get a prof. porting and polish job. Go bigger valves like 2.02's dump the 1.94.
3 angle valve job, Comp. Magnum roller rokers, double rings, titanium retainers, undercut valves and hardened prods. (Cheaper than buying A/M heads)
For the block: Hot tanked, blablabla. DO NOT bore unless necessary. If so do the least amount possible and match the pistons to the bore (Bored.02 means .02 larger pistons). Don.t oversize rings, they will leak after a while. Try to get 10/1 Comp ratio (OK with 93 octane) with flat tops. (Get a whole short block kit: pistons, rods, bearings, pins etc...). Get the crank cleaned, checked and balanced.(Very important).
Now for the cam I will leave that up to you, check Lunati or Comp cams they have good Kits.(Get it degreed)
Keep in mind that you will have an auto and you want the damn thing to idle. Don't over do it.Also get a good crank dampner like fluiddampner or so, remember balance and flow is the issue, vibrations kill. (Get the whole thing Blueprinted and Balanced)
As for the bolt on goodies, depending on your Cam, if you go track, i'd get a single plenum manifold (LOTS of Torque at high Rpm) with a 750 double pumper (Get it tuned for ur cam with right jetting Etc..). If u don't go rad on your cam then go with a dual plenum (Like performer).
Base your bolt ons on your cam selection!!
Headers: Get Tuned LTs with 1 3/4 primaries. True duals with X or H pipe into bullets for street or no muffs for track (Open Headers)
Now you got to hook that stuff to the pavement via TH400, HiStall TC, (Strong rear end)12 bolt and all the other stuff your ride will require.
In all with a similar set up u can pull 400hps easy and more. As mentionned above, Flow is important but also to match all your parts for the job you need that motor to do.
Reasearch and ask around then make your decision. Plenty of "Old hags like myself around".
Oh and you should be looking at 3000 to 3500 bucks for a reliable set up.
Final advice "Don't take short cuts" you'll end up paying more at the end.
First the HEADS, get them magnafluxed to check for cracks. If OK get a prof. porting and polish job. Go bigger valves like 2.02's dump the 1.94.
3 angle valve job, Comp. Magnum roller rokers, double rings, titanium retainers, undercut valves and hardened prods. (Cheaper than buying A/M heads)
For the block: Hot tanked, blablabla. DO NOT bore unless necessary. If so do the least amount possible and match the pistons to the bore (Bored.02 means .02 larger pistons). Don.t oversize rings, they will leak after a while. Try to get 10/1 Comp ratio (OK with 93 octane) with flat tops. (Get a whole short block kit: pistons, rods, bearings, pins etc...). Get the crank cleaned, checked and balanced.(Very important).
Now for the cam I will leave that up to you, check Lunati or Comp cams they have good Kits.(Get it degreed)
Keep in mind that you will have an auto and you want the damn thing to idle. Don't over do it.Also get a good crank dampner like fluiddampner or so, remember balance and flow is the issue, vibrations kill. (Get the whole thing Blueprinted and Balanced)
As for the bolt on goodies, depending on your Cam, if you go track, i'd get a single plenum manifold (LOTS of Torque at high Rpm) with a 750 double pumper (Get it tuned for ur cam with right jetting Etc..). If u don't go rad on your cam then go with a dual plenum (Like performer).
Base your bolt ons on your cam selection!!
Headers: Get Tuned LTs with 1 3/4 primaries. True duals with X or H pipe into bullets for street or no muffs for track (Open Headers)
Now you got to hook that stuff to the pavement via TH400, HiStall TC, (Strong rear end)12 bolt and all the other stuff your ride will require.
In all with a similar set up u can pull 400hps easy and more. As mentionned above, Flow is important but also to match all your parts for the job you need that motor to do.
Reasearch and ask around then make your decision. Plenty of "Old hags like myself around".
Oh and you should be looking at 3000 to 3500 bucks for a reliable set up.
Final advice "Don't take short cuts" you'll end up paying more at the end.
Question about the heads. You think its ok if I rebuild the stock heads to 2.02 or do I need to go aftermarket? I do know that this engine was running fine when they took it apart.
I was also wanting something like 10:1 compression for the 93 octane, planned on flat tops too.
Would it be a better idea to bore it .3 over and get a crank to make it a 383? What's so bad about it?
As for the carb, everyone on the net tells me to get a Holly, everyone I work with tells me to get an Edelbrock.
I haven't looked at specific cams yet, but it won't be all that radical.
On the transmission I was looking at either a 350 or a 400, I'd perfer the 400.
On the rear end I was thinking about getting a Ford 9", see any problems that might cause?
I understand that shortcuts and shitty work is a big nono. I had to work on some guys blazer and he had the wrong kind of bolts in the exhaust manifold, holes drilled where they shouldn't be, and the engine ran like ****. All because he wanted to save $1,000 and get his engine made from a parts bin instead of by Jasper.
BTW - I called the machine shop my work uses today, and these prices were, uh...less than I expected. Tell me these numbers look a little low.
Clean, bake, install cam bearings, freeze plugs, ect. - $100
.30 over - $120
Blueprint and balance - $350
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
[quoteBTW - I called the machine shop my work uses today, and these prices were, uh...less than I expected. Tell me these numbers look a little low.
[/quote]
Welcome to the real world.
(as in its not an LS1)
[/quote]
Welcome to the real world.
(as in its not an LS1)
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html
I found that site awhile back... Has GREAT engine combos/info, even ones that use stock heads.
I found that site awhile back... Has GREAT engine combos/info, even ones that use stock heads.
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
I'll be honest with you... For the insignificant amount of money involved in SBC 23* heads, there's no way I'd go 80's old school with a port and re-valve. For just a wink over a grand you can be into a set of Airflow Research or Trick Flow heads. Those are a couple of the best bang for the buck heads you could bolt on a performance SBC. If you wanted to get a little wilder, take a look at the Brodix Track 1's. There isn't a chance in hell I'd have $800+ wrapped up in a GM casting when these three will beat the EYES out of a vortec's skull for $1200-$1300.
Heads are where your power is. And to be able to get your hands on heads that good for that kind of money is just sick. Everybody has been over and over the camel hump 2.02/1.60's for 20 years. They break their *** to make 350hp. Get the aftermarket casting, 230+ advertised duration, at least 10:1 CR, and let it rip. You'll be over the 400hp mark without stroking the bottom end.
I'm not a stroker fan when it comes to race anyway. Add to stroke means subtract from RPM. Great for street motors when you want serious torque, but you're not going to want to spin it over 5500rpm. Bottom line, if you're going to try to get at 450hp, you'll have to stroke it with GM casting cyl. heads, or go with aftermarket heads on 350 cubes.
Heads are where your power is. And to be able to get your hands on heads that good for that kind of money is just sick. Everybody has been over and over the camel hump 2.02/1.60's for 20 years. They break their *** to make 350hp. Get the aftermarket casting, 230+ advertised duration, at least 10:1 CR, and let it rip. You'll be over the 400hp mark without stroking the bottom end.
I'm not a stroker fan when it comes to race anyway. Add to stroke means subtract from RPM. Great for street motors when you want serious torque, but you're not going to want to spin it over 5500rpm. Bottom line, if you're going to try to get at 450hp, you'll have to stroke it with GM casting cyl. heads, or go with aftermarket heads on 350 cubes.
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
I'll be honest with you... For the insignificant amount of money involved in SBC 23* heads, there's no way I'd go 80's old school with a port and re-valve. For just a wink over a grand you can be into a set of Airflow Research or Trick Flow heads. Those are a couple of the best bang for the buck heads you could bolt on a performance SBC. If you wanted to get a little wilder, take a look at the Brodix Track 1's. There isn't a chance in hell I'd have $800+ wrapped up in a GM casting when these three will beat the EYES out of a vortec's skull for $1200-$1300.
Heads are where your power is. And to be able to get your hands on heads that good for that kind of money is just sick. Everybody has been over and over the camel hump 2.02/1.60's for 20 years. They break their *** to make 350hp. Get the aftermarket casting, 230+ advertised duration, at least 10:1 CR, and let it rip. You'll be over the 400hp mark without stroking the bottom end.
I'm not a stroker fan when it comes to race anyway. Add to stroke means subtract from RPM. Great for street motors when you want serious torque, but you're not going to want to spin it over 5500rpm. Bottom line, if you're going to try to get at 450hp, you'll have to stroke it with GM casting cyl. heads, or go with aftermarket heads on 350 cubes.
Heads are where your power is. And to be able to get your hands on heads that good for that kind of money is just sick. Everybody has been over and over the camel hump 2.02/1.60's for 20 years. They break their *** to make 350hp. Get the aftermarket casting, 230+ advertised duration, at least 10:1 CR, and let it rip. You'll be over the 400hp mark without stroking the bottom end.
I'm not a stroker fan when it comes to race anyway. Add to stroke means subtract from RPM. Great for street motors when you want serious torque, but you're not going to want to spin it over 5500rpm. Bottom line, if you're going to try to get at 450hp, you'll have to stroke it with GM casting cyl. heads, or go with aftermarket heads on 350 cubes.
Speaking of ebay I also saw a set of 4 bolt mains for $80, should I buy them and get the block milled? (Its a 2 bolt)
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
I'll be honest with you... For the insignificant amount of money involved in SBC 23* heads, there's no way I'd go 80's old school with a port and re-valve.
Everybody has been over and over the camel hump 2.02/1.60's for 20 years. They break their *** to make 350hp.
LOL, Dude, an early 70's LT1 used to make 350hps and that is with flat tappets stock (Underrated too)
WTF are you babling about? 400/450hps with todays roller rockers and roller cams, new stronger light alloys etc....PIECE OF CAKE.
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Re: Help Me Build a Chevy 350
Question about the heads. You think its ok if I rebuild the stock heads to 2.02 or do I need to go aftermarket? I do know that this engine was running fine when they took it apart.
I was also wanting something like 10:1 compression for the 93 octane, planned on flat tops too.
Would it be a better idea to bore it .3 over and get a crank to make it a 383? What's so bad about it?
Would it be a better idea to bore it .3 over and get a crank to make it a 383? What's so bad about it?
If your motor is in good shape you might only need a hone.
As for the carb, everyone on the net tells me to get a Holley, everyone I work with tells me to get an Edelbrock.
I haven't looked at specific cams yet, but it won't be all that radical.
On the transmission I was looking at either a 350 or a 400, I'd prefer the 400.
On the rear end I was thinking about getting a Ford 9", see any problems that might cause?
BTW - I called the machine shop my work uses today, and these prices were, uh...less than I expected. Tell me these numbers look a little low.
Clean, bake, install cam bearings, freeze plugs, ect. - $100
.30 over - $120
Blueprint and balance - $350
As far as building this Minirat simply try to follow this (Reliability,Part Syncronization, patience, wisdom, and research)
This is not an LS1 it's a SBC with over 45 years of devellopment, fine tuning and experience behind it (Many more to come too).
Do your homework and benefit from the people that spent their lifetime with that little beast.