Narrow bands for use with leaded fuels?
08-26-2008, 01:18 PM
#1
Narrow bands for use with leaded fuels? I seem to recall about a year or so ago there was talk in some of the mags about a new (narrow band) O2 sensor that supposedly would not be contaminated by leaded race fuels.
I have a fried that would like to be able to run race fuel with N20, but he is tired of going through O2 sensors.....any one have a clue?
I think they were Densos, but I am not sure.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Mike
I have a fried that would like to be able to run race fuel with N20, but he is tired of going through O2 sensors.....any one have a clue?
I think they were Densos, but I am not sure.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Mike
08-26-2008, 01:26 PM
#2
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: East Central Florida
Posts: 12,605
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
There are some that are more tolerant but I don't
think any that are immune to poisoning.
What about unleaded race fuel, or propane or
ethanol / methanol? Any of these will at least bring
the octane up. Gallon of denatured alcohol from
Home Depot would go a long way if it's just used
during spray, and you can get alcohol compatible
mini fuel cells and pumps. Costs a little more than
pump gas but it's also way more available.
think any that are immune to poisoning.
What about unleaded race fuel, or propane or
ethanol / methanol? Any of these will at least bring
the octane up. Gallon of denatured alcohol from
Home Depot would go a long way if it's just used
during spray, and you can get alcohol compatible
mini fuel cells and pumps. Costs a little more than
pump gas but it's also way more available.
08-26-2008, 01:40 PM
#3
Cool.
Race gas is just easy as he has a local place that has several pumps near his house.
This is a big power car, makes 560rwhp on muscle (427/C5R), and some stupid numbers on the gas (777 on a 200 TNT shot, now has a direct port jetted for 250).
Race gas is just easy as he has a local place that has several pumps near his house.
This is a big power car, makes 560rwhp on muscle (427/C5R), and some stupid numbers on the gas (777 on a 200 TNT shot, now has a direct port jetted for 250).
08-26-2008, 02:40 PM
#5
How did I know that would be the reply I got here....?
He really enjoys the fact that the car knocks down 25+MPG at the moment, since he tends to drive it 135+ miles one way to come out on the weekends. Without spending hours on the dyno retuning the car, do you think an OL tune will be able to provide that type of mileage?
It seems like a lot of work for a car that already runs perfectly.....
He really enjoys the fact that the car knocks down 25+MPG at the moment, since he tends to drive it 135+ miles one way to come out on the weekends. Without spending hours on the dyno retuning the car, do you think an OL tune will be able to provide that type of mileage?
It seems like a lot of work for a car that already runs perfectly.....
08-26-2008, 03:21 PM
#7
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: East Central Florida
Posts: 12,605
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
I believe open loop can produce better highway MPG
(when in conditions similar to when tuned). Getting it
to stay tight across environmental variations, is a lot
more effort. But you can make it run leaner than
stoich if you want to.
Here's one web page that talks up Denso sensors, I
would take the marketing with a fair bit of salt but
maybe it will set you on the path.
http://www.carpartswholesale.com/bra...en_sensor.html
(when in conditions similar to when tuned). Getting it
to stay tight across environmental variations, is a lot
more effort. But you can make it run leaner than
stoich if you want to.
Here's one web page that talks up Denso sensors, I
would take the marketing with a fair bit of salt but
maybe it will set you on the path.
http://www.carpartswholesale.com/bra...en_sensor.html
Trending Topics
08-26-2008, 03:47 PM
#8
I believe open loop can produce better highway MPG
(when in conditions similar to when tuned). Getting it
to stay tight across environmental variations, is a lot
more effort. But you can make it run leaner than
stoich if you want to.
Here's one web page that talks up Denso sensors, I
would take the marketing with a fair bit of salt but
maybe it will set you on the path.
http://www.carpartswholesale.com/bra...en_sensor.html
(when in conditions similar to when tuned). Getting it
to stay tight across environmental variations, is a lot
more effort. But you can make it run leaner than
stoich if you want to.
Here's one web page that talks up Denso sensors, I
would take the marketing with a fair bit of salt but
maybe it will set you on the path.
http://www.carpartswholesale.com/bra...en_sensor.html
If it dont work, we may give SD a shot.....just hate to try reinventing the wheel on a car that already runs damn near perfect!
Thanks
Mike
08-26-2008, 05:39 PM
#9
How did I know that would be the reply I got here....?
He really enjoys the fact that the car knocks down 25+MPG at the moment, since he tends to drive it 135+ miles one way to come out on the weekends. Without spending hours on the dyno retuning the car, do you think an OL tune will be able to provide that type of mileage?
It seems like a lot of work for a car that already runs perfectly.....
He really enjoys the fact that the car knocks down 25+MPG at the moment, since he tends to drive it 135+ miles one way to come out on the weekends. Without spending hours on the dyno retuning the car, do you think an OL tune will be able to provide that type of mileage?
It seems like a lot of work for a car that already runs perfectly.....
As JB noted, OL (can be MAF or SD) can do better at cruise since you are not bound to stoich or richer. Personally I would be doing next-to-none of that portion of the tuning on the dyno. I'd likely have the owner driving me around if he were available or an employee otherwise while I tuned.
Maybe the Denso's will do the trick for you. If they do, post up, I'd love to hear about it. If not, there may be some NTK options as well, though you would likely have to re-connectorize the sensors.
08-26-2008, 07:15 PM
#11
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: East Central Florida
Posts: 12,605
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
I saw some stuff that seemed to imply, that O2 sensors
could be "cleaned" if run long enough on unleaded again.
Of course in a closed loop vehicle this is liable to suck
for a good long while, until they get back to right and
the rich soot fouling may be worse than the lead in the
end.
If this guy is willing to swap sensors before he heads
to the track, then maybe a pair of these lead-resistant
ones would last a while. Then get a Harbor Freight
propane weed burner and a piece of pipe with a bung
and set it on "flame rinse" when they're back off the
car, before putting them back on the shelf.
It could work.
could be "cleaned" if run long enough on unleaded again.
Of course in a closed loop vehicle this is liable to suck
for a good long while, until they get back to right and
the rich soot fouling may be worse than the lead in the
end.
If this guy is willing to swap sensors before he heads
to the track, then maybe a pair of these lead-resistant
ones would last a while. Then get a Harbor Freight
propane weed burner and a piece of pipe with a bung
and set it on "flame rinse" when they're back off the
car, before putting them back on the shelf.
It could work.
08-27-2008, 12:43 PM
#14
I saw some stuff that seemed to imply, that O2 sensors
could be "cleaned" if run long enough on unleaded again.
Of course in a closed loop vehicle this is liable to suck
for a good long while, until they get back to right and
the rich soot fouling may be worse than the lead in the
end.
If this guy is willing to swap sensors before he heads
to the track, then maybe a pair of these lead-resistant
ones would last a while. Then get a Harbor Freight
propane weed burner and a piece of pipe with a bung
and set it on "flame rinse" when they're back off the
car, before putting them back on the shelf.
It could work.
could be "cleaned" if run long enough on unleaded again.
Of course in a closed loop vehicle this is liable to suck
for a good long while, until they get back to right and
the rich soot fouling may be worse than the lead in the
end.
If this guy is willing to swap sensors before he heads
to the track, then maybe a pair of these lead-resistant
ones would last a while. Then get a Harbor Freight
propane weed burner and a piece of pipe with a bung
and set it on "flame rinse" when they're back off the
car, before putting them back on the shelf.
It could work.
It would take physical abrasion to clean the sensor but that is just not practical at all. This is assuming that the sensor will still work after any other chemicals reactions that take place.
It is just the nature of the fuel being used. Look into an exhaust manifold from a 1970's car and you will see what I mean!
