babydeuce

iTrader: (24)

Look at this short log, I am playing hell with the idle on this car. I thought the spark would be more constant, changing only a few degrees at idle, but this thing is all over the place, even in closed loop.

Jack

slow

iTrader: (7)

idle spark is the fastest method of controling idle, vs adjusting idle airflow.

Ryan

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

Yes, there is adaptive idle overspeed and underspeed
spark adders vs RPM error, you should have these
tables. Some models have stupid stuff in them but
in general you want them. However if you zero the
adaptive spark while doing your idle tuning you will
be working more with the core problem, and not
having the adaptive spark busy "helping". If the
motor is pretty stable without adaptive spark then
it should be rock solid, with, when you set it back
to active.

babydeuce

iTrader: (24)

Thanks for the responses, I am unfortunately still thinking in the gen 1 SBC world. What you guy explained makes perfect sense.

Jack

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Is there anything like that for HPtuners? I see my idle spark is all over the place as well.

1987firechicken

Yes it is in the engine>spark control and there is a section called
"Idle Adaptive Spark Control"

You can see the overspeed and underspeed tables just make it all 0's and its dead

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Cool, thanks.

BLK02WS6

iTrader: (2)

I usually narrow the band down a little bit so it doesn't swing as hard and fight itself (especially overspeed), but never zero it out...

Gh0st

iTrader: (3)

Those tables are there to help your car run better. Why remove something that's helping you? If you want to find the best idle spark just use the VCM controls which will lock in your desired timing at idle.

You guys have to realize you are going to be wasting your time to perfect your tune. Take advantage of what is helping you, don't fight it.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

That's true ghost, but my idle spark will jump from 22 degrees to 36 degrees on cold startups and start to oscilate with the motor and I think it's causing the motor to hunt from 600-1200 rpm for the first 30 seconds after startup. I don't plan on eliminating it, I just plan on toning down how much of an impact it has on initial startup and see if that helps reduce the rpm swing.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Also part of my issue is I've been battling with my idle, and part throttle 'surge' since adding the ported FAST and a Fidanza flywheel at the same time.

I'm not exactly sure how the two impact each other, but I know that dropping over 16lbs off the flywheel impacts idle and low rpm drivability. Now if I can just figure out what the hell I'm doing, I'll be happy.

12secSS

iTrader: (30)

As Jimmy said, I only zero it out when I need to dail in the RAF and any other idle airflow model. Once the car can idle relatively smooth without idle spark correction, I will either set it back to stock or custom make one for the cam. I prefer to not have the idle spark jump around so much to control the idle and be as steady as possible. This way if I do need extra spark to maintain the idle, I know I have room for it. Rather then the spark be jumping to/from 18-26 degrees and cause a stall condition. Idle spark correction should be used as your last resort to keeping the idle steady, it shouldn't be used as the primary method of stabilizing the idle, JMO.

My spark idle (with an F13) is steady at 24 degrees, with very few -1 or +1 degrees of idle spark correction.

Gh0st

iTrader: (3)

Ah, with an idle hunt that drastic it's something other than your idle spark then. Sounds like your fueling or RAF is off by a bit

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Yeah, I agree, something is definitely off, but it's only for the first 30-45 seconds, so I have a feeling it's something temperature dependant.

I'll figure it out eventually.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Here is what I'm talking about. Look at my log and you'll see that for the first 30 seconds, my idle and spark are all over the place and then it magically (to me at least) returns to normal and smooths out to a nice 875 rpm with the timing ranging from 26-30.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

I wouldn't think a 224 needs more than 23~24* to idle in an M6 application...

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

I'll try backing down the idle spark then and see if that helps. It's just weird that it is erratic for the first 30-40 seconds then smooths out.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

You may need to redo your RAF table to compliment the spark change.

Also, did you disable the AIR compesation? On start up, IAC and spark do some funny things that were originally there for the air pump. Make sure all of your spark and IAC modifiers are where they need to be.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Unfortunately, I don't have HPtuners on my work computer, so I'm not 100% sure, but I thought the AIR was tuned out by setting the activation to 284 degrees, but I'll check later.

What else do I need to address for AIR compensation?

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

In EFI Live, we have a Cat Converter Light-off table that pulls timing after start up.

B5901

Here's a pic of the stock settings...