Is an extra capacity oil pan really necessary?
12-05-2012, 09:19 AM
#1
Is an extra capacity oil pan really necessary? I'm starting the process of gathering parts for a stroker LT1 build. I'd like to get some opinions on using the stock LT1 oil pan. Does it control the oil in the sump properly? Are there any tricks like welding in baffles that can help? I've heard of guys using the stock pan along with a stock volume oil pump and having great success. The car is a street/strip Camaro. Is a pricey aftermarket pan like the Moroso or Canton a necessity for a high-horsepower stroker?
12-05-2012, 09:32 AM
#2
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i dont know of any builder that will do a stroker w/o at least 6 quarts and windage, and some want seven. Now thats just my engine builder everyone has a difference of opinion on here. Myself the extra 300 wasnt a big deal after spending close to 7k on stroking it.
12-05-2012, 10:31 AM
#3
I used to run a canton pan when had my 396 on the street, also ran a taller filter took at least 7 quarts. I run a full kickout Stef's now, its a 8 quart pan and I use a 3 quart accumulater with a tall filter. It's a bit much, something like 11+ quarts.
12-05-2012, 11:56 AM
#4
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Yes.
I was losing oil pressure in the upper rpms (5500-6500) The oil pressure would build then drop EEEK.. The oil pump was sucking all the oil out of the pan and it was not draining fast enough from the heads to the pan. (My assumption) I replaced the pan with a leaking POS moroso pan. Now the oil pressure is good and my floor is well oiled too. I have to put a catch pan under my 12k motor so it doesnt ruin my floor. what ever... I was going to change it to canton pan but I said screw it add oil when needed and wipe the underneath down as it was easier....
I was losing oil pressure in the upper rpms (5500-6500) The oil pressure would build then drop EEEK.. The oil pump was sucking all the oil out of the pan and it was not draining fast enough from the heads to the pan. (My assumption) I replaced the pan with a leaking POS moroso pan. Now the oil pressure is good and my floor is well oiled too. I have to put a catch pan under my 12k motor so it doesnt ruin my floor. what ever... I was going to change it to canton pan but I said screw it add oil when needed and wipe the underneath down as it was easier....
12-05-2012, 04:33 PM
#7
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I don't have a stroker so it's quite a bit different but I stuck with my stock pan and bought the Moroso tray Caprice is talking about (accidently broke the stock one) and my oil pressure is stuck on 70psi all the way up to 6800rpm. Idle it sits at about 50-55ish psi. I went with the std. volume high pressure pump.
I would have dropped the change on a aftermarket pan but I didn't want to be one of the guys who had a leaky/bad aftermarket pan, as I hear about that a lot.. Especially with my new clutch right behind it sucking up that oil!
Perhaps Ramair96ws6 was experiencing windage problems? Not an expert but that's what it sounds like to me.
I would have dropped the change on a aftermarket pan but I didn't want to be one of the guys who had a leaky/bad aftermarket pan, as I hear about that a lot.. Especially with my new clutch right behind it sucking up that oil!
Perhaps Ramair96ws6 was experiencing windage problems? Not an expert but that's what it sounds like to me.
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12-05-2012, 05:20 PM
#8
The spot I used to use for street WOT tuning runs was a sweeping slight incline and I did begin to have some high rpm funkiness where it would go to 70 and then back down to 40. Didn't notice it at the track ever.
A friend into gen 1s told me I needed a pan baffle long as I was going in for that I bought the Moroso tray too and never saw another issue. Entirely possible the $5 pan baffle was all it needed and that the $25 aftermarket tray was wasted money but hell we have all wasted more on things that ended up in failure and given the hassle of pulling the pan I just wanted to be sure.
A friend into gen 1s told me I needed a pan baffle long as I was going in for that I bought the Moroso tray too and never saw another issue. Entirely possible the $5 pan baffle was all it needed and that the $25 aftermarket tray was wasted money but hell we have all wasted more on things that ended up in failure and given the hassle of pulling the pan I just wanted to be sure.
12-05-2012, 07:26 PM
#10
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Caprice do you have a link to the baffle you got? Didn't even know that the baffle was an option either, the stock pan has a baffle of some sort to prevent pressure loss during hard breaking right?
12-05-2012, 09:49 PM
#12
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-23020
I wont say this is better than stock, like I said I put it in because it was cheap and I was in there anyway.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-23000 This is like the baffle I used but I had to do a lot of trimming and test fitting. I got a noname one from Competition Products/Howards cams because that was where I bought the parts, they are a short drive for me so no waiting on shipping.
And yes the stock pan has a baffle for during braking. It has a windage tray too. I really thing all I really needed was the $5 baffle.
I wont say this is better than stock, like I said I put it in because it was cheap and I was in there anyway.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-23000 This is like the baffle I used but I had to do a lot of trimming and test fitting. I got a noname one from Competition Products/Howards cams because that was where I bought the parts, they are a short drive for me so no waiting on shipping.
And yes the stock pan has a baffle for during braking. It has a windage tray too. I really thing all I really needed was the $5 baffle.
12-06-2012, 06:51 AM
#13
Thanks for all of this great info! I am now leaning towards the LT1 Moroso pan, since it has room for longer stroke and more oil capacity. It looks like this pan has a built in windage screen. Is this enough to control windage off the crank or should a windage tray bolted to the main caps still be used?
12-06-2012, 06:57 AM
#14
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Unless I use a larger filter I can't put six quarts into my Canton without having windage issues, which were confirmed with a mechanical gauge. I usually run a half a quart less and it takes care of that. If I could have gotten away with using a stock pan then I would have, but they need to be hammered here and there for stroke clearance as well as my engine having splayed caps. I know that Javier had the same problem with his Canton and I think he was still on the stock block.
12-06-2012, 07:06 AM
#15
I think speed_demon24 had the same Canton issues with windage and such. The friend of mine that is into gen 1s had a lot of problems when he tried a canton pan. Some guys seem to have them work OK but they don't seem to be the majority.
A guy near me that had an LE2 setup stroker had constant leaks from the Canton, oil temp bung in particular I believe.
Canton isn't the only aftermarket pan with issues, far as I know Stef's doesn't even have the right radius to match the timing cover and guys have resorted to double gasket. I understand there is power in a GOOD pan, just seems like finding a genuinely good pan without a lot of hassles is really hard.
A guy near me that had an LE2 setup stroker had constant leaks from the Canton, oil temp bung in particular I believe.
Canton isn't the only aftermarket pan with issues, far as I know Stef's doesn't even have the right radius to match the timing cover and guys have resorted to double gasket. I understand there is power in a GOOD pan, just seems like finding a genuinely good pan without a lot of hassles is really hard.
12-06-2012, 07:13 AM
#16
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Indeed. Even if there was another try I could use it's not worth it to me to have to pull the pan off. I have no oil control issues as long as I fill .5 less. I think speed used a Moroso windage tray and it solved his issues, however now his pan leaks. Mine just sprung a leak just below the RMS housing, but since the pan has not leaked in the 5+ years I've had this engine I can't blame the pan.
12-06-2012, 07:10 PM
#18
Thanks for all of this great info! I am now leaning towards the LT1 Moroso pan, since it has room for longer stroke and more oil capacity. It looks like this pan has a built in windage screen. Is this enough to control windage off the crank or should a windage tray bolted to the main caps still be used?
12-06-2012, 11:58 PM
#19
I BOUGHT THIS ONE 7 quarts + a tall filter & a 10% higher volume Melling oil pump and have been spinning 7000 RPMs for 4 or 5 years now without an oil related issue. Also a bunch of hard cornering as well. Also no oil leaks either but I'm using the Trick Flow gasket set IIRC with the one piece blue gasket and a touch of RTV on the corners
BTW it clears the stock K member and the stock K member is lower than the bottom of the pan. Also clears a UMI K member easily, but the pan is about 3/8" lower than the bottom tube of the K member
BTW it clears the stock K member and the stock K member is lower than the bottom of the pan. Also clears a UMI K member easily, but the pan is about 3/8" lower than the bottom tube of the K member
