No more LSEdit on new GM cars?
03-30-2005, 08:06 PM
#1
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No more LSEdit on new GM cars? Hi All,
I'm a CTS-V owner and recently got my first custom tune at a very reputable place that I can't name for this thread... Learned a lot about tuning, at least second hand.
While I was there I heard that starting in 2006, GM cars will use Bosch software and there won't be any lookup tables... A/F, timing, etc. will all be set by adaptive algoritms. In other words, it's all in the math; no datapoints to tweak.
Is this true? And for those of us who are still faintly hoping for an LS7 in the 2007 CTS-V, how long will it take the tuner industry to figure out how to deal with the new software?
I'm a CTS-V owner and recently got my first custom tune at a very reputable place that I can't name for this thread... Learned a lot about tuning, at least second hand.
While I was there I heard that starting in 2006, GM cars will use Bosch software and there won't be any lookup tables... A/F, timing, etc. will all be set by adaptive algoritms. In other words, it's all in the math; no datapoints to tweak.
Is this true? And for those of us who are still faintly hoping for an LS7 in the 2007 CTS-V, how long will it take the tuner industry to figure out how to deal with the new software?
03-30-2005, 09:17 PM
#3
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If its math the formulas can be tweaked. There has to be a constant/formula stored somewhere. Software is being deleoped for the ls2 pcm as we speak. I highly doubt they will scrap the millions they spen to nthe ls2 for a new system/software
03-30-2005, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimmyz
Jeez...I for one hope you're very wrong.
03-31-2005, 09:34 AM
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I thought the OBD 2 system is being scrapped - too dirty. The new OBD system has lots more sensors - like double the number of OBD2 That is what I read, anyway...
03-31-2005, 11:03 AM
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if it is truly adaptive it will self tune to changes made on the engine or exhaust system. Just may not be able to get rid of cats and rear O2's now. OR maybe it will not allow changes that the PCM cant get the Air/fuel adjusted properly. Who knows, maybe we will end up liking the change.
03-31-2005, 11:53 AM
#7
Originally Posted by HumpinSS
If its math the formulas can be tweaked. There has to be a constant/formula stored somewhere. Software is being deleoped for the ls2 pcm as we speak. I highly doubt they will scrap the millions they spen to nthe ls2 for a new system/software
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03-31-2005, 01:40 PM
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OBD 3 is due out by 2007. When that hits it will be almost impossible to tune with current equipment. Firmware will drive the PCM, the 04's were the start of the next generation OBD, LS2 is harder yet and when OBD 3 hits, new equipment will be needed.
03-31-2005, 01:44 PM
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I'm more concerned about GM still being here in '06' then what they use for VCMs. As with past evolutions of ECMs, PCMs and VCMs, if there is a large enough of a tuning software demand, there will be a supply. I have gone thru this dooms day scenario with every generation of GM's ECMs for custom tuning, but instead our ability to reprogram just keeps getting better and easier.
03-31-2005, 02:55 PM
#10
www.thirdgen.org www.moates.net
mmmk, these ECMs are 20 years old..... and they're still fully supported and used... today more then ever.
EVERY GM ECM/PCM gets scrapped when new regulations come into effect.... since they have to re-write the code anyway, and they need more/diffrent sensor input, they just go ahead and make a new system, rather then waste time streching the old.
the current PCM has been used since 98 (model year 99)... think about that... thats 8 years old now.... of course they move on.
will that stop us? no. of course not. however there will be a nice slowdown while the guys making the software crack the new code....
support for the LS1 PCM isnt going away anytime soon... even if LS1edit (yuk), HPtuners, and everyone else dropped off the face of the earth right now.
mmmk, these ECMs are 20 years old..... and they're still fully supported and used... today more then ever.
EVERY GM ECM/PCM gets scrapped when new regulations come into effect.... since they have to re-write the code anyway, and they need more/diffrent sensor input, they just go ahead and make a new system, rather then waste time streching the old.
the current PCM has been used since 98 (model year 99)... think about that... thats 8 years old now.... of course they move on.
will that stop us? no. of course not. however there will be a nice slowdown while the guys making the software crack the new code....
support for the LS1 PCM isnt going away anytime soon... even if LS1edit (yuk), HPtuners, and everyone else dropped off the face of the earth right now.
03-31-2005, 05:48 PM
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And what tells the adaptive routines what the limits and boundaries are?
I don't think anyone writes code like:
while (!knock) {
advance timing
}
or
while (!conrod broken) {
enable fuel
}
I'm sure there will be limits and calibrations and i'm sure they will be changeable.
I don't think anyone writes code like:
while (!knock) {
advance timing
}
or
while (!conrod broken) {
enable fuel
}
I'm sure there will be limits and calibrations and i'm sure they will be changeable.
03-31-2005, 05:55 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by gameover
And what tells the adaptive routines what the limits and boundaries are?
I don't think anyone writes code like:
while (!conrod broken) {
enable fuel
}
I don't think anyone writes code like:
while (!conrod broken) {
enable fuel
}
03-31-2005, 06:22 PM
#15
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As long as there are some target AFR's (read hardcoded) to be acheived it can be reverse engineered. What will happen is sooner or later our heads will explode with all the tables adn parameters included in the newer packages....
03-31-2005, 09:09 PM
#16
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Until they come out with another 4-seat, RWD V8 convertible
I could not care much less. I doubt I'd buy another new
GM car until then. Nothing in the current lineup entices me.
And so far, so good for the LS1; smells like a 100Kmile motor
to me (if I can resist beastifying it to the point of breakage).
I could not care much less. I doubt I'd buy another new
GM car until then. Nothing in the current lineup entices me.
And so far, so good for the LS1; smells like a 100Kmile motor
to me (if I can resist beastifying it to the point of breakage).
04-01-2005, 07:20 AM
#17
Originally Posted by jimmyblue
Until they come out with another 4-seat, RWD V8 convertible
I could not care much less. I doubt I'd buy another new
GM car until then. Nothing in the current lineup entices me.
And so far, so good for the LS1; smells like a 100Kmile motor
to me (if I can resist beastifying it to the point of breakage).
I could not care much less. I doubt I'd buy another new
GM car until then. Nothing in the current lineup entices me.
And so far, so good for the LS1; smells like a 100Kmile motor
to me (if I can resist beastifying it to the point of breakage).
Im with ya there.... nothing looks good to me either.... well except the vette.
GM better straighten up there act or ill be switching brands..... ill keep the one i have now of course.... Kyle
04-01-2005, 09:08 AM
#18
Originally Posted by gameover
while (!conrod broken) {
enable fuel
}
BWAHAHAHAHahahahahahahaAHAHAHAhahah!!!!!!!!!!!!111 1
im lauging my *** off at work on that one...... (programming humor always gets me, thats what i do [or am suppost to do] 40 hours a week.. lol)
04-01-2005, 11:49 AM
#19
I don't believe that it will be 100% adaptive. The only real reason LS1's have a VE table is in case of MAF failure, so the computer can do things the way the 3rd gen's did. If the new code doesn't have some sort of look up table, what will it do if the MAF fails; won't run? Also, there has to be something for when you start your car and the sensors are not up to temp yet i.e. open loop.
04-01-2005, 07:36 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by MrDude_1
BWAHAHAHAHahahahahahahaAHAHAHAhahah!!!!!!!!!!!!111 1
im lauging my *** off at work on that one...... (programming humor always gets me, thats what i do [or am suppost to do] 40 hours a week.. lol)
im lauging my *** off at work on that one...... (programming humor always gets me, thats what i do [or am suppost to do] 40 hours a week.. lol)
Man that's great.. you took it to the next level..
I prefer a black background muyself with white text.. less burninating on the retinas.
