Car is retarding timing for no reason!!
03-11-2006, 09:25 PM
#1
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Car is retarding timing for no reason!! Hey Guys,
I had my car run on autotap the other day and the car with stock tune is retarding 4 degrees of timing from 3500 rpms and up...its strange I know but I was at 16 degree the other day at WOT.. Also, I installed my hptune and did the same thing except that instead of 16 it was 24, which I beleive my timing was set at 28 at WOT...When I have the hptuners on there my valves chatter like crazy at WOT...What could this be...Fuel Delivery?? what do you think? Fuel trims were perfect!!
Landon
I had my car run on autotap the other day and the car with stock tune is retarding 4 degrees of timing from 3500 rpms and up...its strange I know but I was at 16 degree the other day at WOT.. Also, I installed my hptune and did the same thing except that instead of 16 it was 24, which I beleive my timing was set at 28 at WOT...When I have the hptuners on there my valves chatter like crazy at WOT...What could this be...Fuel Delivery?? what do you think? Fuel trims were perfect!!
Landon
03-11-2006, 10:27 PM
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FormerVendor
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Is everything tight up underneath the car? Throw it on a drive on lift and rev the motor to see if there is any exhaust banging, etc due to the motor moving about. I agree it sounds like your knock sensor is doing it's job by telling you something is wrong. Don't overlook the obvious / externals and go right for the internals. Have you done any recent mods underneath? Have you just noticed this recently with the autotap? Now that you have logged the event can you feel the car bogging even without watching the scanner?
03-12-2006, 12:31 AM
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Look at your knock learn factor as well, a history of
knock retard (real or not) will push you toward the
low octane table. Scan for and understand any knock
events. Look at IAT and coolant temps, review the
adder tables and see if they are in play.
knock retard (real or not) will push you toward the
low octane table. Scan for and understand any knock
events. Look at IAT and coolant temps, review the
adder tables and see if they are in play.
03-12-2006, 01:16 AM
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cool!! I appreciate it... Im not sure that its anything under the car hitting..i feel its something else..Can it be the Knock Retard sensors going bad..Ive got 64,000 miles on my car and its going in for new plugs and fuel filter soon ..
landon
landon
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03-12-2006, 01:38 AM
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You need to log all the spark pids to see what makes up your total timing and log knock.
Until you do this its pretty much all guesswork.
Generally if anything is "bad" it will throw a code.
Until you do this its pretty much all guesswork.
Generally if anything is "bad" it will throw a code.
03-12-2006, 11:29 AM
#9
I had a problem with lost timming once. Then all the sudden I got a code saying somthing like Knock sensor input low. I inspected my Knock sensor and found it was all rusted. Are you getting any codes? If not I would reset the PCM and see what happends.
03-12-2006, 12:56 PM
#10
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If you're hearing that sound at WOT, you should investigate it (log Knock Retard degrees) and find out if it is knock (sounds like... corn poping rapidly...).
Knock will damage your pistons and/or head gaskets; take care of it immediately.
Knock will damage your pistons and/or head gaskets; take care of it immediately.
03-13-2006, 07:14 PM
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today i was driving and log some of my knock retard...at like 40mph with 25% throttle just accelerating from a light, with no sound I pulled 4 degrees..So I punched and it pulled all the way to 10.. 
What the hell..No of these runs produced any valve chatter...which is odd..these are not stock tune readings...but I was pulling the same timing with the stock tune??
What the hell..No of these runs produced any valve chatter...which is odd..these are not stock tune readings...but I was pulling the same timing with the stock tune??
03-13-2006, 07:20 PM
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fuel trims are at 0.00 at WOT..and my air fuel ratio was 13/1 last time I dynoed..Could it be my Fuel Filter..I live in Gulfport, which was the hardest hit by Hurricane Katrina..I was told there was alot of bad gas afterwards, some are saying my fuel filter may be clogged?? Maybe that has nothing to do it 
03-13-2006, 08:31 PM
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What octane fuel are you using, might as well change
the fuel filter and run the best gas you can find.
Is your MAF getting slightly greasy, perhaps? Check
your hygeine. Oil consumption? Nice goopy intake
manifold.
Focus on one aspect and convince yourself that it's
right, or not. Knock 'em down one by one.
Decide whether it's real or false knock. Look at your
temperature and the swing in engine temp as you
drive into the problem. Listen for clanky noises that
can masquerade as engine knock by metal acoustic
conduction - exhaust, engine valvetrain, whatever.
Always hitting at a fixed RPM at varying load indicates
a resonance or clatter. Mid throttle ping can be held-
off PE or just a mild leanness in the tune, which you
might prefer to deal with by less advance (for economy)
or more fuel, for grunt.
Looking back at the initial post your description of
"installing the hptune" makes me wonder, the tool only
does what you tell it. Presumably you modified something,
but not clear to me what.
the fuel filter and run the best gas you can find.
Is your MAF getting slightly greasy, perhaps? Check
your hygeine. Oil consumption? Nice goopy intake
manifold.
Focus on one aspect and convince yourself that it's
right, or not. Knock 'em down one by one.
Decide whether it's real or false knock. Look at your
temperature and the swing in engine temp as you
drive into the problem. Listen for clanky noises that
can masquerade as engine knock by metal acoustic
conduction - exhaust, engine valvetrain, whatever.
Always hitting at a fixed RPM at varying load indicates
a resonance or clatter. Mid throttle ping can be held-
off PE or just a mild leanness in the tune, which you
might prefer to deal with by less advance (for economy)
or more fuel, for grunt.
Looking back at the initial post your description of
"installing the hptune" makes me wonder, the tool only
does what you tell it. Presumably you modified something,
but not clear to me what.
03-13-2006, 09:01 PM
#16
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jimmyblue, according to the guy who tuned my car he says he did not do anything to make my car knock..he said that if anything he didnt advance the timing as much as he could. Then I had it tuned professionally again afterwards with the guy telling me that the tune I had was actually rich..After that I dynoed my car putting down 320/340.. I feel that Im lacking some horsepower by not running my tune as aggressive as I would like..I had someone look and my motor and said it could be false knock..im getting a insane amount of valve chatter 50% of the time while keeping steady throttle at like 1500rpms. I have my car tuned to stay in first gear until like 17mphs..you may ask why im telling you this, but Im just trying to tell everyone what I have done.Im trying to break down wether its valve problems or a false knock problem.
03-14-2006, 06:45 PM
#17
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I doubt this has anything to do with valves. What you are calling valve chatter, I have a feeling is something else all together. Do you have a log of these knock events you could post?
03-14-2006, 08:06 PM
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you never said which octane fuel you are running, if you are not running 93 already that probably spells your problem right there with 28* of WOT timing.
Chris
Chris
03-14-2006, 09:04 PM
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i run 93 from BP/amoco everytime and sometimes even use up to 2 octane boosters..still makes the noise and pulls timing.. My car makes more noise of course when I use shell 93..but anyway, my car is not throwin codes at all, but thats not saying much because my ABS INOP/ASR lights are on and its not showing any codes on my predator..Im just about fed up with this crap..wish I had someone where I live to freaking help me. can someone explain the logging of knock to me! thanks
Landon
can someone explain the logging of knock to me! thanksLandon