dkcoleman01

I have a stock bore bbc 454 (bare block) that I am needing help deciding what to build. I want the engine to run pump gas with 10.1 compression ratio. I want it to be a Daily driver/Weekend warrior. Budget ~ 4000$

Which engine would be best to build a 468 or 496 stroker? And Why?

Thanks in advance

dkcoleman01

Has anyone had any experience with either bbc?

mrdragster1970

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For something so low powered, I honestly would get whatever the best bang for the buck is.
If you could ever afford a real high performance build,
then you would definitely see a noticeable difference from a bigger arm.
Now also be careful you don't get fooled by all the china crap and their inflated numbers.
It might look like you are getting way more for less, but most of that stuff sucks and needs a lot of money to fix all the issues.
Plus the stuff breaks with regularity that a decent American, base model part doesn't.

Good luck.

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torqflyte

Hi DK, I'm also building a 496 and have researched extensively into my build. You'll spend almost the same amount for each size build. You'll be a lot happier with the 496.You'll get tons of torque, 600 ft-lbs plus depending on supporting parts, and torque builds horsepower. Don't get scared about using scat or eagle products. These cranks and rods are a lot better than when these companies first appeared. Their quality control has gotten superior. I'm using the scat internally balanced rotating assembly. BBC's like compression and need a good breathing head. I'm using a 4.250 stroke, 6.535 rod and pistons with 1.120 compression height. Deck the block to get 0 deck. You want to get around 10.5:1 compression to run 92 octane pump gas. I've had sbc's and once you get finished with your 496 and feel the power you'll never got back to a small block. If you source the parts right you'll get the short block done under 2k and you can source out for some good flowing aluminum heads. You can get the aluminum 502 crate motor heads relatively cheap around 5-600 dollars until you can upgrade to some AFR's, Dart or Brodix heads. If you want give me a call 775-738-5476 or email me at torqflyte@hotmail.com
Thanks, James Hope this helps

warriorcustoms

iTrader: (10)

I know its not a car But ive drove boats with stock 454 & 496 motors That 496 is meaner hands down

dkcoleman01

Thank guys for your input.... after reading many threads and asking a lot of questions some may have been stupid, but I have made my mind up.... I am going with the 496. Thanks again guys

cambirdracing

iTrader: (4)

We built a 489 for my wifes 71 Camaro. It cost the same as a 462 at the time. Why not go bigger? Glad you made the choice of a 496.

No substitute for cubic inches.

30th#654

Im Building a 72 C20 originally equipped 400 BBC (currently sits a 355) id like to put a BBC back where it belongs, think maybe i could i get that same extension

mrdragster1970

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Good decision. Like I said, a 496" is a good start, just don't expect some huge difference, like 100-200 HP.
It is definitely a great time to build strokers, and parts are everywhere.
Just becareful you get the best bang for your buck.
I spent a lot of money building a stroker and it ended up making the exact same HP.
The head was too mild for the extra inches.

Good luck.

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torqflyte

Hi 30th, you can definitely give me a call also if you'd like. For that matter anyone can call me to chat about any build they have. That C20 would really wake up with a 496. Nowadays with the craze of GM LS engine swaps the 454 is readily available, mine was free, and you can usually bore a mkIV block .100. Building a budget 496 can be done cheaper than an LS, producing the same HP and TQ. The LQ4 and LQ9 LS blocks are only around 25 lbs lighter than the mkIV 454 blocks.
I've been in the drag racing scene since the late 80's. I owned and operated a transmission business and had sponsored many Div 5 racers. I built transmissions mostly for the Stock Eliminator class. 2 of which held national records in ET and MPH; A/SA 64 Plymouth Savoy (fastest automatic transmission stocker in the world) and then a G/SA 73 Duster. Since my divorce in 2005 and losing everything, I now live in NV and remarried. I'm slowly getting back.
I'm currently building a 77 Camaro, AFR headed 505 BBC with a 4L60 (700r4). It should be one bad *** muscle car when completed. Like I said, BBC’s need compression and a good flowing head. You want to achieve a net quench area of .032-.037. In order to get CR 10:1 and above you’ll need to use a substantial dome, which the flame propagation is hindered. The piston domes should be relieved so the flame front can go over the piston dome.

396375

iTrader: (10)

Is the trans going to be a 4L60E or a 700R4?

JWStevens

iTrader: (1)

I've been running 454's since 1999 and I have yet to figure out how you can build a 496 for the same price? If you have a good core and some decent iron oval ports you can run in the 10's on motor with a 3400lb car. Flat tappet cam, Stock rods, crank, and old OEM LS series piston. I would def rather have a bigger motor but most of the guys on here are talking about street cars so I don't see where they need aftermarket cranks and rods for a 10:1 BBC? Not being a D*ck but it def seems to be a trend on here. I've got about 4 of these motors and one is getting a 6-71 put on it with stock heads, stock rods and cast crank. These things aren't 350's guys. There are guys going way faster than my junk with stock stuff.

mrdragster1970

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Some people will not use stock or used cranks, rods, pistons etc.
So if starting from scratch, sometimes you can build a 496" for the same price as a 454".
Again, if you have the head to take advantage of the extra size, you will see a decent power increase.
If not, you have the base for a new head when you can afford it.
My crew chief has ran well into the 9's with stock short blocks.
He kept pretty close to me using all aftermarket stuff, that cost a hell of a lot more,
but he had more experience/ knowledge, I had more money.
So as I learned, and got better stuff, I pulled away.
You definitely can make some decent power with stock parts, but you will hit a level where it stops.

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JWStevens

iTrader: (1)

I def agree with you, but IF you have a core its way cheaper to build a 454. I crew for a friend with a pro mod and I've got a couple of sets of pull out rods but I don't need them for a 600 horsepower motor?! I guess that's what people mean when they say people buy lessons when they don't know any better. With these budgets these guys say they want to spend sometimes the aftermarket stuff isn't doable and everybody scares them to death saying they won't stay together with stock stuff.

30th#654

ok so for the original question, 468/496 ?, the popular vote goes to 496 correct? with a
side note that a stock 454 with some sweet heads can produce the same power level ?

JWStevens

iTrader: (1)

Def 496 if you've got the money.

mrdragster1970

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1st, I have a Pro-Mod, and when I'm done with the rods, I wouldn't put them in anything except a display/paperweight.
Plus they are way too long to even fit a stock block.

2nd, my 468" ran 9.32, I built a stroker with the same heads, and it ran 9.31.
The engine will make the power the head can support.
All you are doing is lower the HP per inch numbers.

3rd, like I said, you can build a reliable race motor with a stock short block if you know what to do.
I won't do it but other do it everyday, 700-800 HP.

Now, for $4000 is it possible to do much other then use all stock & used stuff??
I would be no help there. I can't even get heads for $4000 on the stuff I build.


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JWStevens

iTrader: (1)

We pull our rod after 25 passes and yeah I'm silly enough to put them in a 600-700 HP motor even after they've been turned 9800. We use 6.665 rods that will fit in my 10.2 stock block because that's what the pro mod block is. We run blowers so we don't run super huge motors. I was under the impression he was spending 4k on the whole motor. That's tight for all new stuff if you use new heads. I didn't think he just meant 4k for the short block.

torqflyte

So the original post was 468 or 496 daily driver and weekend warrior on a 4000dollar budget. I'm not a Pro Mod racerA 496 on pump 92 octane gas can be achieved within the budget. I've outlined an example at a total of $4165 which doesn't include rocker arms, pushrods, carb, headers and covers. But it's all brand new in the box. If going with the scat 9000 cast steel crank and scat 4340 I-beam rods you're under $4000. Sure you can build a 468 cheaper reusing a lot of the original parts, except the pistons and all the machine work to reuse everything to get around 475-500hp. IMHO, I wouldn't reuse all the the parts like crank, rods, pistons. And this is when the price of a 468 and a 496 is virtually identical. which is my other point. The other point is, what is laid out is only an example. The parts are all brand new except the block and is capable of 500-600hp. I've built 496 BBC's and achieved over 650hp and over 630ftlbs of torque. It idled at 675rpm and ran on 92 octane pump gas on a budget of $7000. The engine is in a nova with 700r4 (I built also), 478 gear 9" ford, has 26,000 on it and runs 9.30's with hoosier 33x14.5R15 slicks. On the street he runs 3.89 gears Mikey thompson street radials 28x13.5R15.


http://www.usaperform.com/scat-rotat...21-p-1852.html
4.310 bore & 4.250 stroke
496 cid
Scat forged crankshafts
6.385in Scat 4340 forged H-beam rods
850 HP w/ ARP8740 and 1200 HP w/ARP2000 rod bolts
KB Pistons +17cc = 10.2-1
Mahle/SRP forged pistons +18cc Dome = 10.2-1 with 118cc heads
Plasma moly file fit rings
Clevite H series rod & main bearings
Precision Balanced Internally
Use 396/427 unweighted flex plate & harmonic balancer

S496-42355B 496 10.2 Forged KB $1,759.00
S496-42360 496 10.2 Forged Mahle/SRP $1,929.00

http://www.usaperform.com/block-chev...0cc-p-836.html
SF320 Bare, pr 320 115 2.250/1.880 $987.50
SF320-3050 Assem, pr 320 115 2.250/1.880 1.510D Steel Hydraulic $1,329.50
SF320-3450 Assem, pr 320 115 2.250/1.880 1.460D Steel Hyd Roller $1,349.50
SF320-3450 Assem, pr 320 115 2.250/1.880 1.460D Steel Solid, flat $1,349.50
SF320-3870 Assem, pr 320 115 2.250/1.880 1.625D Tit Solid Roller $1,549.50

http://www.usaperform.com/install-fl...ng-p-1696.html $235

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-11-250-3/ Comp Cams CB XE284H-10 $135

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PFS-53031/ Professional Products Single plane intake $255

Clean and Machine block $450

JWStevens

iTrader: (1)

For him it would def be better to build a 496 because he doesn't have anything. I never reuse pistons but good rod bolts go a long way. I still run the first 468 I ever bought (in 1999) to this day and I'm sure its very close to 600 if not more and it all stock in the short block except the rod bolts and I don't know any secrets at all. It even has stock little oval ports on it. That stuff is just strong. I think 500HP would be very simple to get out of a 454 but that's just me. The only crank I have ever broken was a small block new aftermarket eagle POS with a blower on it and it was because of the blower. I wish him luck but he's gonna have to spend it well to come in under 4K. This topic has made me interested to see what EXACTLY it would cost to build a 500HP pump gas 454 and do something I never waste money on and dyno it for proof. I think ill start rounding up JUNK parts and see what can be done for about 2500. That sound like a good budget for 500HP.