quick toe ?
10-25-2008, 05:41 PM
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quick toe ? When getting an alignment, what is toe-in considered, positive or negative toe? I am wanting toe in, but the alignment sheet shows it as positive and I don't trust that the guys there know which is which as they had some initial trouble understanding that I wanted neg. camber on both front tires.
Not the guy doing the alignment, but he thought that when I told him that I wanted -.7 camber that both wheels were going to be like this / / instead of / \.
Not the guy doing the alignment, but he thought that when I told him that I wanted -.7 camber that both wheels were going to be like this / / instead of / \.
10-26-2008, 03:07 AM
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Well, you're probably right, but this was not the guy doing the alignment, but even then, the guy doing the alignment was not very reasuring as to wether the toe was actually in or out. He said in but had to think about it. That is why I'm trying to figure out which, in or out, is + or -.
Just thought I'd ask here before going on the ever elusive search of a worthy alignment shop.
Just thought I'd ask here before going on the ever elusive search of a worthy alignment shop.
10-26-2008, 08:10 AM
#5
When getting an alignment, what is toe-in considered, positive or negative toe? I am wanting toe in, but the alignment sheet shows it as positive and I don't trust that the guys there know which is which as they had some initial trouble understanding that I wanted neg. camber on both front tires.
Not the guy doing the alignment, but he thought that when I told him that I wanted -.7 camber that both wheels were going to be like this / / instead of / \.
Not the guy doing the alignment, but he thought that when I told him that I wanted -.7 camber that both wheels were going to be like this / / instead of / \.
10-26-2008, 11:25 AM
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Cool. My alignment specs are at 6.0L/5.8R caster, .7L/.6R camber, and .02L/.01R toe. I think that equals 1/16" and 1/32". Car still feels a little wonderish at times(lower speeds mostly, highway's pretty solid) which is why I was asking about the toe.
With those specs though, should I go back and get everything matched on both sides or is the variance not enough to make much of a difference.
With those specs though, should I go back and get everything matched on both sides or is the variance not enough to make much of a difference.
10-26-2008, 05:55 PM
#7
Cool. My alignment specs are at 6.0L/5.8R caster, .7L/.6R camber, and .02L/.01R toe. I think that equals 1/16" and 1/32". Car still feels a little wonderish at times(lower speeds mostly, highway's pretty solid) which is why I was asking about the toe.
With those specs though, should I go back and get everything matched on both sides or is the variance not enough to make much of a difference.
With those specs though, should I go back and get everything matched on both sides or is the variance not enough to make much of a difference.
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10-26-2008, 09:18 PM
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Cool. My alignment specs are at 6.0L/5.8R caster, .7L/.6R camber, and .02L/.01R toe. I think that equals 1/16" and 1/32". Car still feels a little wonderish at times(lower speeds mostly, highway's pretty solid) which is why I was asking about the toe.
With those specs though, should I go back and get everything matched on both sides or is the variance not enough to make much of a difference.
With those specs though, should I go back and get everything matched on both sides or is the variance not enough to make much of a difference.
+ = postive = toe in
read my reply (#12) in post
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/1001472-what-fxck-does-take-get-correct-alignment.html
10-28-2008, 09:40 PM
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What are the advantages to having more or less caster? I know that a lot of it will make the steering a little heavier, but does it make the car behave any differently? After driving a little more the last few days, it does fine below 45 and above about 70, but in between it gets kind of "squirrley". Was thinking about getting re-aligned to a little less camber, still want a little negative, and maybe less caster. It does tend to pull the right a little. Don't auto-x any but do like to make use of my Strano/Koni set-up.
Also, what should the thrust angle be? They did not give me one when I got the alignment, though I did ask for it.
Also, what should the thrust angle be? They did not give me one when I got the alignment, though I did ask for it.
10-29-2008, 08:09 AM
#10
Caster gives the car straight line stability, however it also makes the car "not want to turn", or as you mention, makes the steering "heavy". A small bit of negative camber will also help stability, as well as cornering. A lot of negative camber will really help cornering, but will wear out tires, as well as also make the steering a little "heavy".
You want your thrust angle to be as close to zero as possible, which means the car tracks straight. In other words, the front and rear tires are in line, and parallel, with each other.
You want your thrust angle to be as close to zero as possible, which means the car tracks straight. In other words, the front and rear tires are in line, and parallel, with each other.
10-29-2008, 08:45 AM
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The good thing about toe is, zero is always
zero
If you tend to drive aggressively a little bit
of negative camber can make tire wear
-more- even, you scrub the outside edge
on the corners and wear the inside on the
straights. The balance, of course, is on you.
But I had pretty even tire wear with about
-1 camber on the last set. Because every
day is autocross only without all the cones
and self-righteous SCCA douchebags.
zero
If you tend to drive aggressively a little bit
of negative camber can make tire wear
-more- even, you scrub the outside edge
on the corners and wear the inside on the
straights. The balance, of course, is on you.
But I had pretty even tire wear with about
-1 camber on the last set. Because every
day is autocross only without all the cones
and self-righteous SCCA douchebags.
10-29-2008, 11:28 AM
#12
The good thing about toe is, zero is always
zero
If you tend to drive aggressively a little bit
of negative camber can make tire wear
-more- even, you scrub the outside edge
on the corners and wear the inside on the
straights. The balance, of course, is on you.
But I had pretty even tire wear with about
-1 camber on the last set. Because every
day is autocross only without all the cones
and self-righteous SCCA douchebags.
zero
If you tend to drive aggressively a little bit
of negative camber can make tire wear
-more- even, you scrub the outside edge
on the corners and wear the inside on the
straights. The balance, of course, is on you.
But I had pretty even tire wear with about
-1 camber on the last set. Because every
day is autocross only without all the cones
and self-righteous SCCA douchebags.
Geez--who pissed in your Wheaties? Way to stereotype all us douchebags together jimmyblue.
+ with regards to toe is toe-in, with - being toe-out. I think that was clarified already, but wanted to make sure.
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www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
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Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
Last edited by Sam Strano; 10-29-2008 at 12:40 PM.
10-29-2008, 09:49 PM
#15
Staging Lane
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It makes me feel better w/out the cones, audience, rules...I also don't feel embarrased when somebody such as, oh, Sam would get up after my "awesome" run and make me feel the guy on the right
.
But, anyway, if I want to try to make the car as highway stable as possible I would the the caster as is? Doesn't feel all to heavy to me, but I think the caster has been set like that since I bought it so I gues I'm used to it. I've read from others on this site that around 4.5 is optimal for more stockish alignments. Why is it that most all post I see that say max caster are also posting max camber #'s? Is there a performance gain at all? I would think that for auto-x'ing, you would want the steering to be lighter and use less caster.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
.But, anyway, if I want to try to make the car as highway stable as possible I would the the caster as is? Doesn't feel all to heavy to me, but I think the caster has been set like that since I bought it so I gues I'm used to it. I've read from others on this site that around 4.5 is optimal for more stockish alignments. Why is it that most all post I see that say max caster are also posting max camber #'s? Is there a performance gain at all? I would think that for auto-x'ing, you would want the steering to be lighter and use less caster.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
10-30-2008, 11:57 AM
#17
Caster helps with tracking, it also weights up the steering a bit, and creates a little more torque that centers the wheel. A wandering car has more to do with tires and toe than with caster if it's not all screwed up. 4 degrees or what have you isn't much S197 Mustangs, BMW's, and Vettes tend to have around 7 degrees plus. Older Mustangs had about 2.
Caster isn't unimportant, but you won't be able to change it enough to really see any real difference unless it's all messed up to start with.
Caster isn't unimportant, but you won't be able to change it enough to really see any real difference unless it's all messed up to start with.
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18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
18 SCCA National Championships in house, many more for our customers prove we know our stuff.Talk is cheap, results matter.
Check out our KONI prices, our Master Cylinder Brace, and new Xtracker Hub/wheel bearing upgrade kits!
10-30-2008, 01:10 PM
#18
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The good thing about toe is, zero is always
zero
If you tend to drive aggressively a little bit
of negative camber can make tire wear
-more- even, you scrub the outside edge
on the corners and wear the inside on the
straights. The balance, of course, is on you.
But I had pretty even tire wear with about
-1 camber on the last set. Because every
day is autocross only without all the cones
and self-righteous SCCA douchebags.
zero
If you tend to drive aggressively a little bit
of negative camber can make tire wear
-more- even, you scrub the outside edge
on the corners and wear the inside on the
straights. The balance, of course, is on you.
But I had pretty even tire wear with about
-1 camber on the last set. Because every
day is autocross only without all the cones
and self-righteous SCCA douchebags.
11-01-2008, 11:33 PM
#19
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Caster helps with tracking, it also weights up the steering a bit, and creates a little more torque that centers the wheel. A wandering car has more to do with tires and toe than with caster if it's not all screwed up. 4 degrees or what have you isn't much S197 Mustangs, BMW's, and Vettes tend to have around 7 degrees plus. Older Mustangs had about 2.
Caster isn't unimportant, but you won't be able to change it enough to really see any real difference unless it's all messed up to start with.
Caster isn't unimportant, but you won't be able to change it enough to really see any real difference unless it's all messed up to start with.
Gonna try and get everything the same for both sides. I think that the caster for my car should be even, or at least as close as possible, because most of the roads that I drive are flat and the roads that are crowned are on both sides of the road.
