Eliminating ABS Brake Module. Anyone done this?
08-22-2010, 09:02 PM
#1
Eliminating ABS Brake Module. Anyone done this? From what I can tell is that these 4th gens don't use a proportioning. Instead the fluid is directly routed through the hydraulic portion of the abs module. If one were to press the brakes too hard the abs module would then take over and limit brake pressure to the calipers. YES/NO?
My car has a carbureted small block and no longer uses the pcm or main wiring harness and i only use the BCM for the power windows. I would like to lose the extra 10+ pounds of dead weight on the nose of the car so I was thinking if I removed it and plumbed the brake lines directly to the master cylinder everything should be fine. Im going to leave the booster in place.
Has anyone done anything similar? If so how did the car feel while braking? I wouldn't imagine you felt a difference but if so what was it?
My car has a carbureted small block and no longer uses the pcm or main wiring harness and i only use the BCM for the power windows. I would like to lose the extra 10+ pounds of dead weight on the nose of the car so I was thinking if I removed it and plumbed the brake lines directly to the master cylinder everything should be fine. Im going to leave the booster in place.
Has anyone done anything similar? If so how did the car feel while braking? I wouldn't imagine you felt a difference but if so what was it?
08-22-2010, 09:06 PM
#2
yes its been done. There are kits available by SJM manufacturing. You will need a proportioning valve. helps to know the year of the car also.
http://www.sjmmanufacturing.com/
http://www.sjmmanufacturing.com/
08-23-2010, 10:50 AM
#5
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The proportion valve adjusts the braking force between the front and back brakes. Without one your back brakes will probably lock up before the fronts which makes for exciting stops.
08-23-2010, 10:55 AM
#6
What he said ... when you brake, the nose typically drops, adding weight on the front and reducing weight on the rear. So, equal bias front and rear will have the rears locking up or engaging ABS WAY before the fronts are even close.
And the rear brakes are much smaller ... by design. Using them without proper proportioning will wear them out quicker or overheat them causing a whole laundry list of problems like axle seal failure, E-Barke failure, etc.
And the rear brakes are much smaller ... by design. Using them without proper proportioning will wear them out quicker or overheat them causing a whole laundry list of problems like axle seal failure, E-Barke failure, etc.
08-23-2010, 05:48 PM
#7
Ok. I understand all of that I was just under the impression that the way the car was factory that direct pressure was induced on all four wheels when the brakes were hit and if the abs module had to intervene then it did.
Are you guys saying this is not true? If not then where is the factory prop valve located ( I would guess it is intigrated into the hydraulic part of the abs module)??
Thanks for the help.
Are you guys saying this is not true? If not then where is the factory prop valve located ( I would guess it is intigrated into the hydraulic part of the abs module)??
Thanks for the help.
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08-23-2010, 06:38 PM
#9
Yeah I have done some research on the kit that is listed for my car on that link that was posted. It really does exactly what I want to do except for the fact that a proportioning valve is installed on the rear brakes only and its adjustable. They make it really simple by sending pre bent tubes and all the fittings but i think I can do it myself for less than 80 bucks. The proportioning valve is only 40 to 45 bucks. Lines and what not from a parts store aren't real exspensiv.
08-23-2010, 09:00 PM
#10
Lines on the car are metric. 98+ F-Cars have two different sizes on the MC.
I have yet to find a metric threaded prop valve. So finding the proper flared adaptor can be tedious.
The last ABS delete we did on a road race car was using the Burkhart Chassis rig. We took the rear line between the MC and machined block, cut it in two pieces, installed standard threaded tube nuts and reflared the lines, then installed the prop valve.
We even intalled a remote adjuster so that the underhood prop valve could be adjusted on the fly.
Very neat and very clean install. Looked factory, almost.
I have yet to find a metric threaded prop valve. So finding the proper flared adaptor can be tedious.
The last ABS delete we did on a road race car was using the Burkhart Chassis rig. We took the rear line between the MC and machined block, cut it in two pieces, installed standard threaded tube nuts and reflared the lines, then installed the prop valve.
We even intalled a remote adjuster so that the underhood prop valve could be adjusted on the fly.
Very neat and very clean install. Looked factory, almost.
08-24-2010, 06:34 AM
#12
No, they are still metric. But I believe both the front and rear fittings on the 93-97 MC are the same metric ... 11 x 1.5 ?????
Edlemen makes an adaptor for it to go to 3/16 flare. Got mine at my local O'reilly's.
Because we R&R motors more often than normal, we re-routed the front brake lines forward and across the lower core support. That allows us to hang the calipers on the body and drop the K-Member/Motor/Trans combo out the bottom and not breech the brake system.
Not that it applies to your situation, just an FYI to think outside the box on your brake system.
Edit:
Found this ... maybe it helps.
http://www.z28racergirl.com/images/2...spumpsizes.jpg
Edlemen makes an adaptor for it to go to 3/16 flare. Got mine at my local O'reilly's.
Because we R&R motors more often than normal, we re-routed the front brake lines forward and across the lower core support. That allows us to hang the calipers on the body and drop the K-Member/Motor/Trans combo out the bottom and not breech the brake system.
Not that it applies to your situation, just an FYI to think outside the box on your brake system.
Edit:
Found this ... maybe it helps.
http://www.z28racergirl.com/images/2...spumpsizes.jpg
Last edited by mitchntx; 08-24-2010 at 07:06 AM.
08-24-2010, 10:04 AM
#13
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this is an interesting thread. I always thought ABS delete was for drag cars. What is the "feel" difference for a street car that may see track days and autox/road races?
08-24-2010, 10:22 AM
#14
Yes that is exactly my setup. If you will notice that the lines coming from the master cylinder are the same size. No big deal there. But the line coming from the ABS module going to the rear brakes (which is the one coming from the center that is larger than the rest on the right hand side) Is much larger. I will have to find a 1/8x27npt adapter for the 11mm line and find an adapter for the larger line and use the prop valve to couple the two different sizes together. The front I am going to rout to some sort of t union and connect them together.
That is a really great idea you guys had running them across the core support. I have a kmember in mine and when I take the motor out or put it in my darn engine hoist isn't wide enough to go around it. And if I wet the motor on something tall enough to keep it from resting on the hoist then I cant get the car high enough to get it out. I can do it but its a pain and I can have the motor out in just a little bit longer buy pulling the radiator and taking it out the top. If my motor is coming out something better be wrong I've changed rods and pistons and redone bearing in the car before. LOL.
Thank you very much for all your help!
That is a really great idea you guys had running them across the core support. I have a kmember in mine and when I take the motor out or put it in my darn engine hoist isn't wide enough to go around it. And if I wet the motor on something tall enough to keep it from resting on the hoist then I cant get the car high enough to get it out. I can do it but its a pain and I can have the motor out in just a little bit longer buy pulling the radiator and taking it out the top. If my motor is coming out something better be wrong I've changed rods and pistons and redone bearing in the car before. LOL.
Thank you very much for all your help!
08-24-2010, 11:01 AM
#19
I really dont think that I have to have a proportioning valve for the fact I dont see myself doing any heavy stopping. but for safety and enterntainments sake I am going to use one. I can get them off ebay for less that 40 bucks shipped and I think if the price of brass isn't more than about 3 buck a fitting and I dont buy anything excessive I can do it myself for a relitively fare price. Ill keep everyone posted.
08-24-2010, 11:58 AM
#20
Over time, though you do develop a feel for when one, two, three or four tires are locked up.
On my Firebird, there is a thin, fine line between where the nose dives like a submarine and the rear locks up. I can feel the whole chassis "squat". And a quarter turn either way will screw it up.
And track conditions make that a moving target.
You can olso use dive or rear lock to your advantage. Add a little rear bias so that when you trail brake, the car rotates. Take away a little bias to make the nose dive some, and it ads weight transfer to the front and the front bites better on corner entry.
For me, it's not a set it and leave it ****.