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Brake fluid flush???
11-01-2011, 09:20 PM
#1
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Brake fluid flush??? So I went to Firestone today and after getting my tires rotated the mechanic does his usual list of recommended maintenance. He tells me my brake fluid needs flushed, that it's registering this color on his stick that he uses to check it, and that means it is "dangerously" dirty. I haven't had a look at the fluid myself yet but I was wondering what everyone's thoughts on this were.
1. Are brake fluid flushes required? Necessary? Recommended? They wanted to charge me $63 for one.
2. Can I do a brake flush myself? Or just drain the fluid and refill it with new stuff?
Thanks in advance.
1. Are brake fluid flushes required? Necessary? Recommended? They wanted to charge me $63 for one.
2. Can I do a brake flush myself? Or just drain the fluid and refill it with new stuff?
Thanks in advance.
11-01-2011, 09:25 PM
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What is the worst that could happen if I don't get it done?
11-01-2011, 09:57 PM
#6
yeah I wouldn't chance it with a system as important as the brakes. brake fluid attracts moisture and over time it just gets worse and worse as it gets wetter and wetter. boiling points get reduced which lead to all kinds of interesting situations.
get the flush
get the flush
11-01-2011, 10:02 PM
#7
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Absorbs moisture ^^^^
We charge 200$ at my dealer. 8p
If it has never been done I would get it done for that price. Bmws they are a service that is performed every thirty k or two years. If that means anything to you.
You can do it yourself but more likely you won't flush the entire system. Firestone more likely hooks up a pressure bleeder which will keep constant pressure in the system as they open each caliber, normally till clean fluid is pushed through. Just make sure they aren't just sucking out the reservoir and topping it back off with clean fluid trying to scam you.
I personally do it once a year but I have the pressure bleeder and lift and to much time.
We charge 200$ at my dealer. 8p
If it has never been done I would get it done for that price. Bmws they are a service that is performed every thirty k or two years. If that means anything to you.
You can do it yourself but more likely you won't flush the entire system. Firestone more likely hooks up a pressure bleeder which will keep constant pressure in the system as they open each caliber, normally till clean fluid is pushed through. Just make sure they aren't just sucking out the reservoir and topping it back off with clean fluid trying to scam you.
I personally do it once a year but I have the pressure bleeder and lift and to much time.
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11-01-2011, 11:17 PM
#12
That guy is full of **** man.....no such thing as "dangerously" dirty......I just changed my fluid after 13 1/2 years. It just gets moisture in it, making the brakes mushy over years and years......its not like one second you have brakes and the next you die...... 
They will always keep working as long as you don't spring a big leak and have no pressure.
I did steal braided lines last month so I thought I'd flush the entire system while we were at it.
It takes two guys 15 minutes to bleed all the old fluid out and the new fluid in. EASY...... They even have a little gizmo now so you can do it all by yourself......
Simply bleed the brakes one at a time.....take a turkey baster and suck all the brake fluid you can out of the master cylinder. Then top it off with new fluid. Starting with the REAR RIGHT..Bleed it till new, clean fluid comes out. Then top off the fluid again. Then go to the REAR LEFT till new fluid comes out. Top of the fluid. Then go to the FRONT RIGHT till new fluid comes out. Top of the fluid. Then go to the FRONT LEFT and bleed it till new fluid comes out. Now the entire system has new fluid, except a tiny dribble in the ABS box....meaningless.
Each time you bleed a caliper, the fluid in the master cylinder doesn't really drop that much......BUT make sure you DO NOT let it run dry.
We had to go around and bleed them TWO times......just because I wanted to make sure all the old was out and all the air.
.
They will always keep working as long as you don't spring a big leak and have no pressure.I did steal braided lines last month so I thought I'd flush the entire system while we were at it.
It takes two guys 15 minutes to bleed all the old fluid out and the new fluid in. EASY...... They even have a little gizmo now so you can do it all by yourself......
Simply bleed the brakes one at a time.....take a turkey baster and suck all the brake fluid you can out of the master cylinder. Then top it off with new fluid. Starting with the REAR RIGHT..Bleed it till new, clean fluid comes out. Then top off the fluid again. Then go to the REAR LEFT till new fluid comes out. Top of the fluid. Then go to the FRONT RIGHT till new fluid comes out. Top of the fluid. Then go to the FRONT LEFT and bleed it till new fluid comes out. Now the entire system has new fluid, except a tiny dribble in the ABS box....meaningless.
Each time you bleed a caliper, the fluid in the master cylinder doesn't really drop that much......BUT make sure you DO NOT let it run dry.
We had to go around and bleed them TWO times......just because I wanted to make sure all the old was out and all the air.
.
11-02-2011, 06:37 AM
#13
That guy is full of **** man.....no such thing as "dangerously" dirty......I just changed my fluid after 13 1/2 years. It just gets moisture in it, making the brakes mushy over years and years......its not like one second you have brakes and the next you die...... They will always keep working as long as you don't spring a big leak and have no pressure.
They will always keep working as long as you don't spring a big leak and have no pressure.So, using your logic, changing the oil in the motor is not warranted, only when something catastrophic occurs.
Interesting ...
11-02-2011, 07:41 AM
#14
As performance enthusiasts who often push our cars to the limit, brake fluid flushing is simply the right thing to do. Whether it be once a year or once every few years, a fresh charge of fluid increases the boiling point and gives a firmer pedal. Plus, when you're messing with the system you can spot potential problems before they turn into big problems. Invest in the bleeder system of your choice, follow the manufacturers instructions, use the proper fluid from a fresh, sealed container, keep everything clean and then enjoy a safe, firm brake system.
My $0.02.
ramey
My $0.02.
ramey
11-02-2011, 09:27 AM
#15
Believe it or not, it's recommended that you flush your brake fluid at least once a year. Do we do that? Nope...well I do, but only in the GTO before a track day. In my other cars, hell no because it's a pain and I honestly don't care that much. But I still get to it once ever two or three years which is better than most people who wait 5 or 6 years before even thinking about it.
But brake fluid naturally collects water, even in a sealed system. Over time the collected water level rises and lowers the boiling point - degrading brake performance. The amount of water collected will always vary, but it's always there and its impact on braking can be realized with higher braking temperatures.
Realistically you probably will never come close to the dry boiling point of any off the shelf DOT3 or DOT4 fluid, but wet fluids can drop the boiling point easily by 100-degrees or more. Think about the next time you sit in stop/go traffic and need to make a quick panic stop. Bad news bears.
Get a set of speed bleeders, a friend, and get around to it every year if you can. Always put in the best fluid your budget can afford. DOT4 or "DOT4.5" are the best fluids, but they're also more money.
But brake fluid naturally collects water, even in a sealed system. Over time the collected water level rises and lowers the boiling point - degrading brake performance. The amount of water collected will always vary, but it's always there and its impact on braking can be realized with higher braking temperatures.
Realistically you probably will never come close to the dry boiling point of any off the shelf DOT3 or DOT4 fluid, but wet fluids can drop the boiling point easily by 100-degrees or more. Think about the next time you sit in stop/go traffic and need to make a quick panic stop. Bad news bears.
Get a set of speed bleeders, a friend, and get around to it every year if you can. Always put in the best fluid your budget can afford. DOT4 or "DOT4.5" are the best fluids, but they're also more money.
11-02-2011, 05:19 PM
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Thank you, this has answered all of my questions.
come to think of it, my brakes do feel a little weak. Just wondering can I expect slightly firmer breaks afterwards?
come to think of it, my brakes do feel a little weak. Just wondering can I expect slightly firmer breaks afterwards?
11-02-2011, 05:39 PM
#18
Not really initially.
With moisture in the fluid it still should not be compressible until it gets over temperature and the water boils off. Then it should start to be mushy.
The new fluid will have higher boiling point, at least until it absorbs enough water, and with less water there is a smaller chance of the parts in the brake system corroding... that is until it builds up the moisture again.
I used DOT 3/4 synthetic Valvoline because it is readily available and decent. You can also do it more or less by yourself without anything special if you are willing to take some time. Just need some basic tools, some tubing, and a metal hanger and a soda bottle... 60cc catheter tip syringe doesn't hurt to get most of the old fluid out of the reservoir.
With moisture in the fluid it still should not be compressible until it gets over temperature and the water boils off. Then it should start to be mushy.
The new fluid will have higher boiling point, at least until it absorbs enough water, and with less water there is a smaller chance of the parts in the brake system corroding... that is until it builds up the moisture again.
I used DOT 3/4 synthetic Valvoline because it is readily available and decent. You can also do it more or less by yourself without anything special if you are willing to take some time. Just need some basic tools, some tubing, and a metal hanger and a soda bottle... 60cc catheter tip syringe doesn't hurt to get most of the old fluid out of the reservoir.
11-02-2011, 11:12 PM
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Mitch...I LOVE analogies...I have to remember that one.
Some good answers in here....some not so good.
Generally speaking, fluid should be changed a minimum of every two years. Fluid has two ratings, a dry and wet boiling point. Moisture/condensation is produced through temperature and atmospheric changes. Automotive fluid is designed to absorb(blend) the moister/condensation, as it does, the wet boiling point is lowered due to the dilution process.
Moister/condensation (water), as it dilutes the brake fluid creates problems.
First it decreases performance as water has a higher compressibility rate vs. brake fluid. Temperature will affect rate of change which gives less predicable and repeatable results. This is why the wet boiling point comes into factor too. The delta change is not linear either.
Second the fact that when your brake fluid is diluted with water, you increase corrosion internally within the brake lines and increase caliper failure rates. So when you see your brake lines disintegrating becoming brittle and failing...or the calipers are all full of rust/corrosion and frozen...you'll know one of the culprits if you've not changed the fluid often enough.
Changing the fluid is rather simple. If you don't feel up to the task, let a pro take care of it for you. ~70.00 which was mentioned is a very fair price for a job that may be daunting to some.
Many people do not change their brake fluid overlooking it for some reason. I can't tell you how many times I speak to someone on the phone that is installing one of our ABS delete kits or Line Lock kits and are changing their fluid for the first time. Even if its an LS1, the last production year was 2002...which is going on 10 years at this point.
Steve
Mechanical Engineer
SJM Manufacturing Inc.
724-478-5580
Some good answers in here....some not so good.
Generally speaking, fluid should be changed a minimum of every two years. Fluid has two ratings, a dry and wet boiling point. Moisture/condensation is produced through temperature and atmospheric changes. Automotive fluid is designed to absorb(blend) the moister/condensation, as it does, the wet boiling point is lowered due to the dilution process.
Moister/condensation (water), as it dilutes the brake fluid creates problems.
First it decreases performance as water has a higher compressibility rate vs. brake fluid. Temperature will affect rate of change which gives less predicable and repeatable results. This is why the wet boiling point comes into factor too. The delta change is not linear either.
Second the fact that when your brake fluid is diluted with water, you increase corrosion internally within the brake lines and increase caliper failure rates. So when you see your brake lines disintegrating becoming brittle and failing...or the calipers are all full of rust/corrosion and frozen...you'll know one of the culprits if you've not changed the fluid often enough.
Changing the fluid is rather simple. If you don't feel up to the task, let a pro take care of it for you. ~70.00 which was mentioned is a very fair price for a job that may be daunting to some.
Many people do not change their brake fluid overlooking it for some reason. I can't tell you how many times I speak to someone on the phone that is installing one of our ABS delete kits or Line Lock kits and are changing their fluid for the first time. Even if its an LS1, the last production year was 2002...which is going on 10 years at this point.
Steve
Mechanical Engineer
SJM Manufacturing Inc.
724-478-5580