north tx guys, who does your heads
09-07-2014, 08:38 AM
#42
OP, I posted the numbers from my Lloyd Elliot stage ones compared to stock 243's in the gen 3 internal section. I believe for the money they turned out great. This max effort LS7 discussion has jacked this thread but it is good info none the less.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...l#post18413160
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...l#post18413160
09-07-2014, 09:22 PM
#43
We did a C6 Z06 about a month ago. 11.6:1 compression, 243/256 .660/.630 114lsa cam(not too big not too little), 1.875" LT headers, 3" Catted X-pipe, stock Z06 exhaust, stock LS7 intake, stock TB and FRH LS7 heads.
It made 570/500 which I felt was right in line with what it should of made. Toss a Fast intake on it and it should make 585-590/510-515. If a larger cam like our 251/263 LS7 Polluter cam had been used I have no doubt it would of made 600rwhp.
I hate to hear that you're still having issues JP. I'm very happy to hear that my help has been beneficial to you in your quest for more power. If you need anything in the future please let me know.
It made 570/500 which I felt was right in line with what it should of made. Toss a Fast intake on it and it should make 585-590/510-515. If a larger cam like our 251/263 LS7 Polluter cam had been used I have no doubt it would of made 600rwhp.
I hate to hear that you're still having issues JP. I'm very happy to hear that my help has been beneficial to you in your quest for more power. If you need anything in the future please let me know.
09-07-2014, 09:38 PM
#44
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We did a C6 Z06 about a month ago. 11.6:1 compression, 243/256 .660/.630 114lsa cam(not too big not too little), 1.875" LT headers, 3" Catted X-pipe, stock Z06 exhaust, stock LS7 intake, stock TB and FRH LS7 heads.
It made 570/500 which I felt was right in line with what it should of made. Toss a Fast intake on it and it should make 585-590/510-515. If a larger cam like our 251/263 LS7 Polluter cam had been used I have no doubt it would of made 600rwhp.
I hate to hear that you're still having issues JP. I'm very happy to hear that my help has been beneficial to you in your quest for more power. If you need anything in the future please let me know.
It made 570/500 which I felt was right in line with what it should of made. Toss a Fast intake on it and it should make 585-590/510-515. If a larger cam like our 251/263 LS7 Polluter cam had been used I have no doubt it would of made 600rwhp.
I hate to hear that you're still having issues JP. I'm very happy to hear that my help has been beneficial to you in your quest for more power. If you need anything in the future please let me know.
Such a gorgeous car..... Gonna miss seeing it, racing it this year.... 
for the next LSX platform....
09-09-2014, 01:47 PM
#47
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I had to sit back and really think is it worth trying to prove to a few street car owners that my heads work by arguing online(No Way). I know that what ever I say is wrong in there eyes and that's fine with me because they have a right to there own opinion. I deal with pro racing teams, and 25 plus individuals daily including,Nascar Sprint Cup, Camping Truck,NHRA Pro Stock Car and Pro Stock Bike,Comp Eliminator, Cadillac Racing, and Nissan etc. These teams and drivers use many different style heads of ours. None of these drivers and teams are racing a flow bench or a Dyno. No two dyno's read the same nor do flow benches, so relying on these two things to tell you if a combo is good is ridiculous. That's why all pro teams test in real world conditions with real results. I've sent heads to Cup teams and Pro stock teams that make great power on the dyno, but don't run on the track. So, then we regroup with the team engineer and design a new combo to suite there needs for real track results.That is how you come up with winning combos. It's not just one component it takes a complete combo. So once again it sucks that you guys did not make your internet dream of 600 rwhp, but the same shop doing all your motors and tuning has made the numbers on there dyno that you wanted with the same heads and smaller CI. There is absolutely no argument to that. That's why QMS continues to order heads and continues to tell me that they are dumb founded on your combo's being down on hp. I'm sure there are customers of mine out there that didn't make the Hp they had dreamed of, but sometimes that's all the number is a DREAM. You just can't chase other peoples dyno numbers from other shops and other states. No two dyno's are going to read the same. For crying out loud I've watch a shop put ten psi in the tires and pick up 8 RWHP. So in my opinion if your real racers then you'd know how it's done, and chasing RWHP numbers is for Big D*** measuring competitions, and not for winning CHAMPIONSHIPS!! I have heads on cars in the following Series so if that doesn't say Good performance then what does. Two sets on Two different top 6 NHRA Pro Stock Cars, One set on a top 4 Pro Stock bike, 3 sets in the top 10 in Nascar Sprint Cup, and 2 sets in the top 6 Camping truck series, 2 sets in NHRA funny car, and Top fuel, Etc the list goes on and on. So I apologize for getting so defensive over street car RWHP number wars. It was very stupid of me to drop to that level, and it took a few good conversations from some of my good friends who run million dollar race teams to tell me don't worry about the ones that you can't help and help the ones that will listen. There will always be some that don't succeed in building a good combo , but it happens. So all I can do is be the man I am and offer what I feel to be a great product to those who really think out side the box.
Like I told Wes and JP, they say they are disappointed with the performance of our heads. My comment was, you've been to our shop you've seen the quality of our facility and our equipment. All that is paid for by our great customers and pro teams that believe in us, and that win championships. So how do you pay for something well over a million dollars and have it paid for in three years. HMMMMM I must do something right by my customers that make them come back and recommend others. I don't advertise anywhere so I'm very lucky to have the awesome customers that I do. I truly only provide people with a component/tool/knowledge to make power, but if you can't put it to good use there's not much I can do for you except offer help to correct the combo.
The biggest problem I hear about is too many people are chasing someone else's claimed RWHP. Instead of worrying about your own combo on your own dyno, with continued track testing to make your combo better. Amazing how my little stock bottom end 347 car makes makes low 500 rwhp and I eat guys up in vettes that say they made 550 rwhp on joe blows dyno. What about how the car accelerates, and what VE? Does the car make peak power at 6500rpm or 7200rpm all these things matter immensely.
So If your the guy who likes to think outside the box and be a leader, I'm your guy for a winning combo. If your the guy who is a internet warrior and tends to follow the leader, and listen to the crowd, I'm not your guy. I take what I do very seriously hence why this crap has me all wound up, but I work with some of the best and smartest race teams in the world. I learn something everyday and no i'm not always right, but I'll figure it out and make it better.
Like I told Wes and JP, they say they are disappointed with the performance of our heads. My comment was, you've been to our shop you've seen the quality of our facility and our equipment. All that is paid for by our great customers and pro teams that believe in us, and that win championships. So how do you pay for something well over a million dollars and have it paid for in three years. HMMMMM I must do something right by my customers that make them come back and recommend others. I don't advertise anywhere so I'm very lucky to have the awesome customers that I do. I truly only provide people with a component/tool/knowledge to make power, but if you can't put it to good use there's not much I can do for you except offer help to correct the combo.
The biggest problem I hear about is too many people are chasing someone else's claimed RWHP. Instead of worrying about your own combo on your own dyno, with continued track testing to make your combo better. Amazing how my little stock bottom end 347 car makes makes low 500 rwhp and I eat guys up in vettes that say they made 550 rwhp on joe blows dyno. What about how the car accelerates, and what VE? Does the car make peak power at 6500rpm or 7200rpm all these things matter immensely.
So If your the guy who likes to think outside the box and be a leader, I'm your guy for a winning combo. If your the guy who is a internet warrior and tends to follow the leader, and listen to the crowd, I'm not your guy. I take what I do very seriously hence why this crap has me all wound up, but I work with some of the best and smartest race teams in the world. I learn something everyday and no i'm not always right, but I'll figure it out and make it better.
09-09-2014, 07:11 PM
#48
Neither myself nor JP were chasing anyone's dyno numbers , these were our own personal goals. The dyno is but 1 tool to measure performance, as I mentioned, we both race. As JP stated above, if you spend money to build something, you want to make sure that its actually working, to call it chasing someone else's number, big d*** measuring contest or a dream is a bullish** cop out. You keep making stuff up for instance, "I called QM and they told me you need full exhaust" yet my car has full 3" exhaust and QM themselves installed the H-pipe back LG big 3 so I know damn well you didn't talk to them.
I also told you that I wanted as close to 12:1 as possible, I gave you erls build sheet and you claim the head gaskets used were incorrect and that you only did what I asked.
A. You only milled the heads down from 70 cc to 69, my understanding is that they should have gone to 66cc.
You also claim you only did what we asked (lets say that's how it happened for the sake of argument), well you are the professional head porter. What you should have done was listen to what we wanted then advised as to what would or would not work and offered a suggestion.
Here's the coverse to your argument, a customer asks me to build him an office network using solely apple computers. He wants a Mac server and mac printing and wants it to operate as smoothly and efficiently as a windows network. It can be done but not all his/her criteria can be met nor is this an effective use of their money and it's MY job to present options and advise them on what to or not to do.
I won't even get into the nearly 3 months you had my heads and did nothing to them until pressed by QM because they were pulling the motor or the fact that you didn't do the rocker arm trunion conversion,didn't return phone calls or emails; that's on me, I should have stopped at that point.
No, you're not going to please 100% of the people 100% of the time, that's a given but to continuing to attempt to deflect blame elsewhere is childish especially when you make stuff up like C6 drive train is 4% more efficient than a C5 (hint, its the same gd drive train) or that QM told me this or that.
QM is going OUT OF THERE WAY to help figure this out and I have little doubt they'll figure it out, they've not blaimed anyone, only trying to resolve it. Let it go.
Nice infomercial though
I also told you that I wanted as close to 12:1 as possible, I gave you erls build sheet and you claim the head gaskets used were incorrect and that you only did what I asked.
A. You only milled the heads down from 70 cc to 69, my understanding is that they should have gone to 66cc.
You also claim you only did what we asked (lets say that's how it happened for the sake of argument), well you are the professional head porter. What you should have done was listen to what we wanted then advised as to what would or would not work and offered a suggestion.
Here's the coverse to your argument, a customer asks me to build him an office network using solely apple computers. He wants a Mac server and mac printing and wants it to operate as smoothly and efficiently as a windows network. It can be done but not all his/her criteria can be met nor is this an effective use of their money and it's MY job to present options and advise them on what to or not to do.
I won't even get into the nearly 3 months you had my heads and did nothing to them until pressed by QM because they were pulling the motor or the fact that you didn't do the rocker arm trunion conversion,didn't return phone calls or emails; that's on me, I should have stopped at that point.
No, you're not going to please 100% of the people 100% of the time, that's a given but to continuing to attempt to deflect blame elsewhere is childish especially when you make stuff up like C6 drive train is 4% more efficient than a C5 (hint, its the same gd drive train) or that QM told me this or that.
QM is going OUT OF THERE WAY to help figure this out and I have little doubt they'll figure it out, they've not blaimed anyone, only trying to resolve it. Let it go.
Nice infomercial though
09-15-2014, 08:43 AM
#54
It's always interesting to see a shop's reactions when their customers aren't happy. It happens to every shop, if they say different, they're lying. If you own a shop, or plan to own a shop, I think it should be accepted and anticipated that there will be unsatisfied customers no matter how hard you try (especially street car people) and that the best thing you can do is be prepared to deal with it in a way that helps your business rather than hurt it.
09-15-2014, 02:48 PM
#55
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Some thoughts... This thread has been an interesting read. I do much more lurking on this site than I do posting 
. Mainly because I usually have more to learn that I do to contribute. In this case I feel I may be able to contribute to the discussion.
I can understand the frustration that OP is feeling over his build. This is an expensive hobby and putting in hard earned cash to be disappointed with the results would suck. I am in the middle of a significant build that will is requiring a large, for me, investment of my hard earned cash. Over the last ten years I have worked with a number of shops in the north Texas area and most of my experiences have been positive. I reached out Chris (Frankenstein) in the planning stage of my current build. I knew more about his credentials than I did about him at that point. My expectations based on that alone where that he would be egotistical and not have much time for me because that was my experiences in the past with professionals that have similar credentials. After talking with him at length on the phone and visiting his shop, which is impressive to say the least, my expectations were way off. While I would like to say that my charming and likable personality is the reason Chris spent so much time with me, the fact is dude is a car guy and really seems to love what he does. He came across to me as a car guy that was very interested in helping another car guy reach his goals with his project. While the money I am spending on my build is significant to me, to most of the vendors I am working with it really is a drop in the bucket compared to the money they have coming in from the pro racing teams they work with. That being said, Chris has invested a significant amount of valuable time sharing his thoughts and advice on the how to reach the goals I have for my build and much of this advice has steered money away from him because it was the right direction for me. I have been very methodical in my parts combination planning and selection from the very beginning of my project. I know for a fact that if I had not had Chris as a resource to bounce ideas off of I would have made some missteps that would have led to a less than optimal outcome. In addition, this thread has given me confidence that if/when things don’t go as planned he will be there to help me figure out solutions to the problems that will inevitably arise. While it should be expected, the fact is that in this industry the vendors that will stand behind their work and do their best to work with their customers are far and few between.
Frankly speaking, pun inteneded, I realize in posting this reply I will come off as a Frankenstein fanboy to some
. The fact is, I am very careful who I spend my hard earned money with and I am very confident in where I have invested my money. When it is all said and done, the results will speak for themselves with my build one way or another. My thoughts and experiences up to this point would not, and I just thought I would share them because they seem pertinent to the conversation at hand.
To the OP, we are lucky enough to be in a market that has many options. Regardless of who you research you will find some people who have bad reviews to give. My advice would be to go and visit the shops that you are considering working with and meet them. Check out how organized and clean the place is. Talk to them about your goals currently and in the future because it could steer some decisions. See what you think of their shop and how they communicate with you on the phone and in person. Pick the place you are most comfortable with and go from there.
I hope the other unsatisfied folks that have posted up in this tread get there projects where they want them to be. JP, I had been watching your thread for some time, and I am sorry to hear about what happened to your car and glad to see you make it through ok. I also look forward to seeing what you come up with next.
. Mainly because I usually have more to learn that I do to contribute. In this case I feel I may be able to contribute to the discussion. I can understand the frustration that OP is feeling over his build. This is an expensive hobby and putting in hard earned cash to be disappointed with the results would suck. I am in the middle of a significant build that will is requiring a large, for me, investment of my hard earned cash. Over the last ten years I have worked with a number of shops in the north Texas area and most of my experiences have been positive. I reached out Chris (Frankenstein) in the planning stage of my current build. I knew more about his credentials than I did about him at that point. My expectations based on that alone where that he would be egotistical and not have much time for me because that was my experiences in the past with professionals that have similar credentials. After talking with him at length on the phone and visiting his shop, which is impressive to say the least, my expectations were way off. While I would like to say that my charming and likable personality is the reason Chris spent so much time with me, the fact is dude is a car guy and really seems to love what he does. He came across to me as a car guy that was very interested in helping another car guy reach his goals with his project. While the money I am spending on my build is significant to me, to most of the vendors I am working with it really is a drop in the bucket compared to the money they have coming in from the pro racing teams they work with. That being said, Chris has invested a significant amount of valuable time sharing his thoughts and advice on the how to reach the goals I have for my build and much of this advice has steered money away from him because it was the right direction for me. I have been very methodical in my parts combination planning and selection from the very beginning of my project. I know for a fact that if I had not had Chris as a resource to bounce ideas off of I would have made some missteps that would have led to a less than optimal outcome. In addition, this thread has given me confidence that if/when things don’t go as planned he will be there to help me figure out solutions to the problems that will inevitably arise. While it should be expected, the fact is that in this industry the vendors that will stand behind their work and do their best to work with their customers are far and few between.
Frankly speaking, pun inteneded, I realize in posting this reply I will come off as a Frankenstein fanboy to some
. The fact is, I am very careful who I spend my hard earned money with and I am very confident in where I have invested my money. When it is all said and done, the results will speak for themselves with my build one way or another. My thoughts and experiences up to this point would not, and I just thought I would share them because they seem pertinent to the conversation at hand. To the OP, we are lucky enough to be in a market that has many options. Regardless of who you research you will find some people who have bad reviews to give. My advice would be to go and visit the shops that you are considering working with and meet them. Check out how organized and clean the place is. Talk to them about your goals currently and in the future because it could steer some decisions. See what you think of their shop and how they communicate with you on the phone and in person. Pick the place you are most comfortable with and go from there.
I hope the other unsatisfied folks that have posted up in this tread get there projects where they want them to be. JP, I had been watching your thread for some time, and I am sorry to hear about what happened to your car and glad to see you make it through ok. I also look forward to seeing what you come up with next.
