Benefits of Impact sockets vs traditional sockets?
09-16-2005, 02:57 AM
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Benefits of Impact sockets vs traditional sockets? So I have new impact gun, but don't have much in terms of impact sockets. I have lots of metric/standard Craftsman sockets though.
What dis-advantages do standard sockets have over impact types? Are tehy more prone to cracking or stripping?
What dis-advantages do standard sockets have over impact types? Are tehy more prone to cracking or stripping?
09-16-2005, 11:11 AM
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Over time standard sockets will weaken and more than likely shatter, trust me you do not want that happening to you.
Standard sockets just aren't made to handle the torque like impact sockets.
Standard sockets just aren't made to handle the torque like impact sockets.
09-16-2005, 04:32 PM
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Standard sockets will also wear out in the square area where the ratchet goes. They will also screw up the retaing ring on the impact gun and then your sockets will fall off every time you turn around. The sockets always fall in places you can't reach or in a bucket of oil if one is around.
09-18-2005, 06:07 PM
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As mentioned, standard sockets will shatter, while impact sockets will deform.
Alright, here's some info on tools, steel, history, and probably some more crap you're not interested in.
I'm not for sure without checking, but I'd bet impact sockets are made from a different type of steel than other sockets. They probably use a steel with a lower carbon count, which means they are softer. Also, they are probably not heat treated to as high of a rockwell as other sockets, also meaning they will be softer.
Now, why have tools with different hardnesses and what is their purpose? The higher the rockwell, the harder the material, which means it is less likely to deform and more likely to break. A tool that doesn't beed a lot of precision will be softer, examples would be prybars, impact sockets, most pullers, etc. You don't won't a pry bar to break in the middle of use, so it is made softer so it will bend before it breaks.
On the flip side, tools that are used in cases that require precision, need to be harder, so they won't deform. If parts on your torque wrench bend rather than break, you're not going to be getting a very accurate reading, which could lead to the heads on your engine not seating properly or your wheels falling off, not good. A precision tool that is deformed isn't going to work properly, therefore, it might as well break since it is no longer any good. However, usually precision doesn't involve a whole lot of force, so when it does give out, not much damage will occur.
As for the history lesson, it involes heat treatment via quenching. When swords were in fashion a common problem was either keeping a sharp edge on one or keeping your sword from breaking. The blacksmith would forge the sword and leave it out in the open air to cool, which cooled it slowly, making it soft. You can't keep a sharp edge on soft material, which is bad. If they forged the sword then dipped it in water to cool it very quickly, it would make the sword very hard and you could keep a sharp edge on it, but it would break easily. The key was to cool only the outside quickly, while letting the inner material cool more slowly. The way they found to do this was after forging a sword, plunge it into an animal or human because the flesh, fat, muscle fluids, etc. would cool it in the way they needed. The peasants would do this by forging the sword, then stabbing into cattle they had just slaughtered. The wealthy would do this stabbing into the thighs of their slaves (it also had a sacrificial religious meaning)
Here's some mroe info on the difference. As you've noticed, impact sockets use a black coating, while standard use a chrome. The black coating is basically man made rust, which prevents further oxidation and gives the tools a nice look. The different finishes help the user know which is which. Also, the black finish is cheaper than chrome, which is why most industrial tools use that finish, they are more concenred with cost effectiveness vs. having a pretty tool.
Basically, what you should get out of this is softer material will deform, while harder material will break. Items which have a lot of force applied will usually be softer, while items with a lot of precision will usually be harder. Black oxidation is cheaper than chrome and is usually used in industrial applications.
Alright, here's some info on tools, steel, history, and probably some more crap you're not interested in.
I'm not for sure without checking, but I'd bet impact sockets are made from a different type of steel than other sockets. They probably use a steel with a lower carbon count, which means they are softer. Also, they are probably not heat treated to as high of a rockwell as other sockets, also meaning they will be softer.
Now, why have tools with different hardnesses and what is their purpose? The higher the rockwell, the harder the material, which means it is less likely to deform and more likely to break. A tool that doesn't beed a lot of precision will be softer, examples would be prybars, impact sockets, most pullers, etc. You don't won't a pry bar to break in the middle of use, so it is made softer so it will bend before it breaks.
On the flip side, tools that are used in cases that require precision, need to be harder, so they won't deform. If parts on your torque wrench bend rather than break, you're not going to be getting a very accurate reading, which could lead to the heads on your engine not seating properly or your wheels falling off, not good. A precision tool that is deformed isn't going to work properly, therefore, it might as well break since it is no longer any good. However, usually precision doesn't involve a whole lot of force, so when it does give out, not much damage will occur.
As for the history lesson, it involes heat treatment via quenching. When swords were in fashion a common problem was either keeping a sharp edge on one or keeping your sword from breaking. The blacksmith would forge the sword and leave it out in the open air to cool, which cooled it slowly, making it soft. You can't keep a sharp edge on soft material, which is bad. If they forged the sword then dipped it in water to cool it very quickly, it would make the sword very hard and you could keep a sharp edge on it, but it would break easily. The key was to cool only the outside quickly, while letting the inner material cool more slowly. The way they found to do this was after forging a sword, plunge it into an animal or human because the flesh, fat, muscle fluids, etc. would cool it in the way they needed. The peasants would do this by forging the sword, then stabbing into cattle they had just slaughtered. The wealthy would do this stabbing into the thighs of their slaves (it also had a sacrificial religious meaning)
Here's some mroe info on the difference. As you've noticed, impact sockets use a black coating, while standard use a chrome. The black coating is basically man made rust, which prevents further oxidation and gives the tools a nice look. The different finishes help the user know which is which. Also, the black finish is cheaper than chrome, which is why most industrial tools use that finish, they are more concenred with cost effectiveness vs. having a pretty tool.
Basically, what you should get out of this is softer material will deform, while harder material will break. Items which have a lot of force applied will usually be softer, while items with a lot of precision will usually be harder. Black oxidation is cheaper than chrome and is usually used in industrial applications.
09-18-2005, 08:57 PM
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Some good stuff there, Shamrock. Thanks for sharing that. I always get the fast cool / slow cool = hard or soft thing messed up. Didn't know about the method for hardening swords, either. Kinda cool, kinda creepy.
Black oxide is man made rust? Huh... makes sense. I have impact socket because I knew that they were softer and less likely to shatter, but I never really knew why. Now I know!
Black oxide is man made rust? Huh... makes sense. I have impact socket because I knew that they were softer and less likely to shatter, but I never really knew why. Now I know!
10-18-2005, 04:13 AM
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Any real reason to buy good impacts?
I bought the cheapo 7.99 HF Pittsburgh ones and as of yet have never had a problem.
Look at the thickness and size of any impact, hard for me personally to believe that the $90 sets are "better" in real world use than the cheap ones.
I've taken my trans out of my RX7, did the suspension all the way around, bunch of suspension work on the C5, my wife's Jeep, and just re-did a co-workers front suspension on his Corsica.
I checked the impacts themselves for deforming and found none.
I can see it if your a mechanic but otherwise the average HF stuff seems to work great.
I bought the cheapo 7.99 HF Pittsburgh ones and as of yet have never had a problem.
Look at the thickness and size of any impact, hard for me personally to believe that the $90 sets are "better" in real world use than the cheap ones.
I've taken my trans out of my RX7, did the suspension all the way around, bunch of suspension work on the C5, my wife's Jeep, and just re-did a co-workers front suspension on his Corsica.
I checked the impacts themselves for deforming and found none.
I can see it if your a mechanic but otherwise the average HF stuff seems to work great.
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10-18-2005, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by NoOne
Any real reason to buy good impacts?
I bought the cheapo 7.99 HF Pittsburgh ones and as of yet have never had a problem.
Look at the thickness and size of any impact, hard for me personally to believe that the $90 sets are "better" in real world use than the cheap ones.
I've taken my trans out of my RX7, did the suspension all the way around, bunch of suspension work on the C5, my wife's Jeep, and just re-did a co-workers front suspension on his Corsica.
I checked the impacts themselves for deforming and found none.
I can see it if your a mechanic but otherwise the average HF stuff seems to work great.
I bought the cheapo 7.99 HF Pittsburgh ones and as of yet have never had a problem.
Look at the thickness and size of any impact, hard for me personally to believe that the $90 sets are "better" in real world use than the cheap ones.
I've taken my trans out of my RX7, did the suspension all the way around, bunch of suspension work on the C5, my wife's Jeep, and just re-did a co-workers front suspension on his Corsica.
I checked the impacts themselves for deforming and found none.
I can see it if your a mechanic but otherwise the average HF stuff seems to work great.
Got harbor freight metric impact set (I knew better) and every one I used cracked. I run 100 PSI and my new Craftman's have been bulletproof. Guess it depends on what you use your tools for. I was a truck and off road tireman for years (offroad meaning backhoes,loaders, scrapers, blades, ect.) and my 1000 ft. lb. impact would not tolerate cheap sockets at all.
