SouthernRex

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Tran...m=291889326687

I could.... I could buy two C5 Corvettes. I could buy a 5th gen SS for crying out loud. WTF?

Do you think he'd be insulted if I offered him $12,000?

Majestic9C1

iTrader: (19)

a little high, but super low miles... so I would think around 21-22k

NewOrleansLT1

If it was a Firehawk then yes.. But just a WS6 20k is way more reasonable..

AronZ28

iTrader: (2)

I'd say his price is high, maybe 20-22k, provided that it is in #1 show condition, no bs could pass for a brand new car type of condition. I like that its low miles, but not so low mile that driving it a thousand miles a year will not hurt the value.

I think the price on 4th gen Trans Am's is going to go up in the next 5 years or so. The outrageous styling and the fact that they aren't making them anymore points to a future classic IMO.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

In theory a Firehawk should be worth more than a comparable WS6, but that's often not the reality at this point. WS6 seems to be the more desirable trim level currently, and black is one of the most desirable colors.

As for the car in question though, I'd say it's overpriced by several thousand, especially for being a 2000.

It's extremely nice, but I wouldn't call it #1 condition in its current state. #1 condition show vehicles are the finest examples in the world; prep and presentation should be impeccable. Again this car is very nice, but it's not currently at that level from what the pictures indicate. The interior needs some detailing (dirty carpet) and I can't tell if the center console lid is damaged near the latch or just dirty with something. The front caliper brackets are a bit more discolored/stained than they should be at only 6k miles IMO; perhaps something to do with wheel & tire cleaning chemicals/methods the owner has used. The engine bay looks nice, though there are some areas that could use more comprehensive detailing to properly represent a 6k mile car. Tires and wiper blades appear to be original, so that's a plus if you're interested in an assembly line original show vehicle (though you'd then have to undo those few modifications listed to be true-stock.) There are no undercarriage or wheel well photos, so it's hard to make an assessment of those areas.

It's well optioned as listed, with the Hurst shifter (BBS), 12-disc changer (U1S), traction control (NW9), and AQ9 seats all stock. Not much else to option one of these with, other than a convertible roof. There is a red flag in his description though:

"The only imperfection I would note is the usual markings behind the t-tops near rear window due to the process G.M. used. It's minor and doesn't bother me. I've been told and have read it is a minor fix by a reputable body shop."

If he's referring to the roof panel bubbles, then his research is either quite lacking or has come from poorly informed sources. This is no minor fix at all. Of course, it's no surprise to many of us that every '99+ F-body suffers from this condition, but if he really has researched the issue then he should know it's a costly and labor intensive repair, and his description is misleading. He should have omitted that last sentence in the quote. At least I assume this is the issue he's referring to in the above quote - he didn't post pictures of the area so we can't know for sure. Seems like this would be it though.

Firebrian

This car isn't even worth in the $20's. This is a 2000, not a 2002. And it appears to have roof bubbling issues which is not normal for a 6K mile garage queen that sees very little sun. I suspect the owner has parked it outside plenty. My 18K mile 1999 has no roof bubble issues....and it might not if I keep to the current regimen of avoiding peak sun in the summer and finding shade whenever it is outside and parked. I parked it outside once on a show field and realized within a couple hours how stupid that was. One time in 5 years. Imagine what's gonna happen if you stick it outside in the bright hot sun dozens or hundreds of times?

Interesting that this was a CT car. I had the opportunity to purchase a near twin CT WS6 to this one back in Nov 2011. That was a 2000 WS6 M6 with 14K miles. It was an estate car as the orig owner had passed on. It was very sharp with few faults....and certainly no roof bubbles. It drove like a dream. Best M6 I've ever test driven. Asking price 5 years ago was $16,750-$17,000 from Enfield Ford, Enfield, CT which knew what they had. I felt it was a bit too much for a 2000 and passed. I would have paid $16K. So there's no way a 6K mile car in probably worse condition is worth all that much more than what I saw 5 yrs ago. $17K-$18K might be tops...maybe even $19K to a buyer who likes roof bubbles...or the challenge of fixing them. No way it's in the $20's. It would have to be around 2K-3K miles and have NO issues to get $20K. And even then, this is not a special car by any means. If you got $20K to blow, why not up it to $25K and get a real special WS6 like an anniv car, SOM, or even one of the limited production Blackbirds? The seller's car is certainly nice and worthy of a being in a higher end collector's garage. It's just not that special imo. Now find me a 1998 WS6 NBM/white/SGM/BPM with 6K miles and we'll talk.

35% of the 2000 WS6 coupes were black. More than half were M6's. It's not that special, even with 6K miles...and roof bubbling. If the car were similar to what I saw in Nov 2011, I'd offer no more than $16K for this. I'd rather have 14K miles and no roof bubbles. It could never be a #1 original paint car with roof issues. And even if fixed, it's still a car that has been repaired/partially repainted.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Keep in mind though, this 6k mile car might have been parked in full peak sun quite frequently during daytime car shows over the years. Perhaps to the equivalent of what a driver with 5 times the mileage would have seen on the road. I've seen some very low mile (~10k or less) black roof cars do this exactly for this reason. They are technically garage kept, but in full sun at outdoor car shows all summer long. That's all it takes.

But otherwise I agree. Presentation here is not of the highest level, certainly not to command nearly $30k on a 6k mile '00 car. Seems to be just another dreamer.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I think you and I are the only ones interested in a '98, though it's partially for different reasons. I don't care at all about color rarity, in fact I don't even like any of those colors specifically (except white - white would be great), I just want to avoid roof replacement. I'd also like to stay away from the markup of the WS6 cars. Z28, SS or even a Formula would be more to my liking. BGM or MTM/BGC are the only rare colors that I really desire, and those were never offered on the WS6/SS level cars.

Firebrian

At least if the car is on the road and moving there is some cooling to that roof panel. At highway speeds I don't think the sun can damage the panel much at all. If I had to throw out a guess, I'd say 3-4 hours in the strong May-Sept sun is worse than 10,000 miles of driving at over 10 mph. I've got 5,000 miles under my belt on my '99 SS and have seen the roof try to bubble only once. And that was after sitting for 3 hours on a show field around May 30th 2012. Keep the car moving or in the shade and I think you're doing 99% of what you can. I can only speak to the New England area. Arizona, Las Vegas Nevada, South Texas, South Florida, and SoCal might be different. Had I known of this issue before I bought my car....I'd have bought a 1998, a convertible, or a mid-mileage car with "issues" so as not to worry about it. Just my luck I owned a 1998 Z28 from 2001-2009 and had no roof issues despite routine parking out in the summer sun (white car, but with a black sail panel).

Speaking of Firehawks at $20K+. The last one I was involved in was in March 2015. That was a 2001 NBM Firehawk A4 vert with 7K-12K miles as I recall....not sure of the exact miles. Asking price was approx $22,500. It sold for $21K or nearly so in just a couple of weeks. At that time I was also offered a 2002 NBM WS6 A4 vert with 12,500 miles for $17,500. It didn't take long to sell that. It was priced to me at $19,500 in 2012 where I passed on it. Both were strong #2 cars in comparable condition. It takes a lot of car these days for a WS6 to reach $20K. For the SS's it's pretty much relegated to the 2002 anniv cars with ultra low miles or one of the 2000-2002 Berger SS's or 2001 DEI SS Intimidators. Though if you had a brand new 50-100 mile SS in the "wrappers" that would likely fetch over $20K.

Firebrian

$28,000?

We all have to remember that when used car shopping we only need to concern ourselves with those priced in the lower 20% of all ads. The other 80% are just priced too darn high and have no effect on the market....other than to influence other sellers that they should price their cars similarly. At the end of the day, only those cars priced in the bottom 10-20% among similar peer cars end up selling. There's always an exception to every rule. So such sellers pray they run into that one clueless person with more money than brains, that will overpay by 20-40% above market.

AronZ28

iTrader: (2)

^ Sometimes I think people that price their car over market value don't really want to sell it anyways. They might have a nagging wife pushing them to sell the car, so hey look honey I'm trying to sell it but nobody wants it so we should keep it type of mind games going on.

NC01TA

You are both 'spot on'. Unfortunately I know someone in a local car club that does exactly what Firebrian says. I find it wrong on so many levels and feel bad for the occasional buyer that this guy finds to buy his overpriced cars. They all have 'issues' too that are never disclosed. I stopped helping him with his ads several years ago once I learned about him not disclosing things.
I've also heard about the AronZ28 scenario. That's a smart husband. shhh...