Lets build a mid-engine Trans Am - need advice
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
I'm guessing the shift rod has to twist and slide front to back.
I wish I know more about these torque tube parts. Any recommendations as to a company to call?
It looks like I might have to make my own flat plate adapter to fit it to my T56.
Here's some big pics:
Just some reference shots:
I wish I know more about these torque tube parts. Any recommendations as to a company to call?
It looks like I might have to make my own flat plate adapter to fit it to my T56.
Here's some big pics:
Just some reference shots:
Last edited by JasonWW; Nov 7, 2008 at 09:17 AM.
So here is my Question. Why are you doing all this? I think you have lost sight of the "Mid-Engine" aspect.
It is simple: You need to base the f-Body on a Pantera Platform with direct input from the trans into the rear end.
You will have to stretch the F-body frame and hope you have some kind of resource as far as Structural integrity for re-framing.
The idea is cool However you will still need to stretch the rear end of the TA and Isolate the Cockpit from the rear seats all the way back.
If you are going to do this keep it as simple as possible and as efficient as possible.
It is simple: You need to base the f-Body on a Pantera Platform with direct input from the trans into the rear end.
You will have to stretch the F-body frame and hope you have some kind of resource as far as Structural integrity for re-framing.
The idea is cool However you will still need to stretch the rear end of the TA and Isolate the Cockpit from the rear seats all the way back.
If you are going to do this keep it as simple as possible and as efficient as possible.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
I only explored the mid engine design because I didn't think I would be able to lower my car enough in the front with the engine up there. It's 24.5" tall and the car is going to be 35" tall. So that's 10" from the top of the engine to the roof. 
Moving the engine to the back makes sense from that regard, but I think I can squeeze the engine in up front.
Moving the engine to the back makes sense from that regard, but I think I can squeeze the engine in up front.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
Boondiggys, were you thinking of doing JUST the mid-engine and leaving the rest of the car stock?
If I were going to just do this and also run 400-500HP I think I'd get the transverse turbo 400 trans (TH425) with a tall gear and LSD. It would be sweet to run say a 3500 stall vert, but these old 3 speeds don't lock up. A 2000 stall should help. Then drive the hell out of it. :-)
4T80-E is newer trans to investigate. It would be sweet if you could buy a caddy wrecked in the rear with no motor and use the trans and front cradle/suspension. You might need to widen it a little to fit a regular LS1 engine, but that shouldn't be too hard. Just weld it all in the back of the f-body.
If I were going to just do this and also run 400-500HP I think I'd get the transverse turbo 400 trans (TH425) with a tall gear and LSD. It would be sweet to run say a 3500 stall vert, but these old 3 speeds don't lock up. A 2000 stall should help. Then drive the hell out of it. :-)
4T80-E is newer trans to investigate. It would be sweet if you could buy a caddy wrecked in the rear with no motor and use the trans and front cradle/suspension. You might need to widen it a little to fit a regular LS1 engine, but that shouldn't be too hard. Just weld it all in the back of the f-body.
Last edited by JasonWW; Nov 8, 2008 at 07:18 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
No one has any info on a rear trans conversion?
That's ok, I found a project online where they are doing it without the torque tube. This looks like the ticket. They use a regular open driveshaft from the engine to the trans. The engine has the flywheel and clutch with a bellhousing, the hydraulic throwout bearing and a home made endplate that closes it and holds a carrier bearing. This bearing keeps the clutch parts lined up. The other end is simpler I think with the driveshaft connected to the trans input shaft. I'm still studing it.
One interesting thing is that the driveshaft never goes over engine redline.
That's ok, I found a project online where they are doing it without the torque tube. This looks like the ticket. They use a regular open driveshaft from the engine to the trans. The engine has the flywheel and clutch with a bellhousing, the hydraulic throwout bearing and a home made endplate that closes it and holds a carrier bearing. This bearing keeps the clutch parts lined up. The other end is simpler I think with the driveshaft connected to the trans input shaft. I'm still studing it.
One interesting thing is that the driveshaft never goes over engine redline.
Last edited by JasonWW; Nov 11, 2008 at 02:39 PM.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
The reason for the mid-engine thoughts were to get the front of the car lower. This is where I'm at right now.The springs are dailed down and it's on the bumpstops.
^Silly reference shot.
I can squeeze the k-member and engine up 2 more inches, but that's it. I can make this the new ride height or I can move the engine to the back so I can lower the front a lot more. I'm kind of undecided.
^Silly reference shot.
I can squeeze the k-member and engine up 2 more inches, but that's it. I can make this the new ride height or I can move the engine to the back so I can lower the front a lot more. I'm kind of undecided.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
Here's a few pics of neat drivetrains. It turns out the new AWD GTR has the trans in the rear and then runs a second driveshaft back to the front to drive the front wheels.
Here's rally car that actually uses my idea of an AWD setup with the engine in the back with the trans facing forward and then a transfer case up in the front to power the front wheels. The other driveshaft then goes back under the engine to a diff that powers the rear wheels.
I know someone suggested having the driveshaft go under the engine, but there's no room for it. I'd have to go on the side.
Like this picture:
What's really bugging me is that I have a perfectly good T56 which can handle all the power I can make along with a fresh LS7 clutch and I kind of hate to swap it for something lesser. I'm going to see if I can squeeze the engine in like this without moving the rear wheels back.
Here's rally car that actually uses my idea of an AWD setup with the engine in the back with the trans facing forward and then a transfer case up in the front to power the front wheels. The other driveshaft then goes back under the engine to a diff that powers the rear wheels.
I know someone suggested having the driveshaft go under the engine, but there's no room for it. I'd have to go on the side.
Like this picture:
What's really bugging me is that I have a perfectly good T56 which can handle all the power I can make along with a fresh LS7 clutch and I kind of hate to swap it for something lesser. I'm going to see if I can squeeze the engine in like this without moving the rear wheels back.
Last edited by JasonWW; Nov 15, 2008 at 02:11 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
The engine itself is what's limiting me. It seems I have only have 2 choices.
I can leave the engine up front and raise it and the k-member 1.5". That will make it level with the bottom of the side skirts. The car body itself hangs down about an inch below that, but I can shave it off.
I'm just not going to get the car down to 35" with the engine up front.
If I move the engine to the back I can raise the k-member 5" and rebuild the floors higher. The problem there is that there is no good cheap transmission available that can handle the power and has a LSD.
I'm going to research more into all the available transmissions starting with the transverse units.
First up, the 4T65E-HD might work, but you'd have to add an LSD. There's no guarantee it will last, though. There are heavy duty versions of the HD that should handle the power, but are very expensive. First you'd need to get the trans, then a complete rebuild kit with all the bullet proof components for $3300 from Intense-racing and then get the parts installed. Even if you get a deal on a used trans and on the labor, it's still over $4000.
The G6 trans is next.
I can leave the engine up front and raise it and the k-member 1.5". That will make it level with the bottom of the side skirts. The car body itself hangs down about an inch below that, but I can shave it off.
I'm just not going to get the car down to 35" with the engine up front.
If I move the engine to the back I can raise the k-member 5" and rebuild the floors higher. The problem there is that there is no good cheap transmission available that can handle the power and has a LSD.
I'm going to research more into all the available transmissions starting with the transverse units.
First up, the 4T65E-HD might work, but you'd have to add an LSD. There's no guarantee it will last, though. There are heavy duty versions of the HD that should handle the power, but are very expensive. First you'd need to get the trans, then a complete rebuild kit with all the bullet proof components for $3300 from Intense-racing and then get the parts installed. Even if you get a deal on a used trans and on the labor, it's still over $4000.
The G6 trans is next.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
Leave the engine and trans up front and raise the k-member/engine 4.5". I ruled this out earlier because it seemed overly difficult, but after this mid-engine design study, it now looks like a piece of cake.
I'll need to notch the glass windshield and cut the dash metal above the engine. Then weld in a small tunnel for engine clearance. I'm not sure if the glass can be cut like that, but I think it can. I'll have to add a small cowl induction style hood bulge over the engine and maybe a small bulge over the throttle body, but nothing too drastic.
The first 1.5" will make the k-member the same height as the side skirt. Then the next 3" will bring it up to the door level. That will be the new floor height. I can cut the side skirt in 3 pieces. I'll attach the middle section to the door itself and the other 2 pieces will go in front of and behind the door piece. This way I can keep the side skirts and not have to shorten the doors.
I think this will work, but I'll have to study it to make sure.
Last edited by JasonWW; Nov 17, 2008 at 05:49 AM.
whats the point in lowering you car til it grabs the ground? honestly you'd never be able to drive it without fear of tearing it up. i think you need to move on to a different mod - b/c this is gettin silly
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
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From: Hou. TX.
You may fear it, I don't.
TECH Addict
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JasonWW thats what Lambo do with their 4WD systems. they have the driveshaft running through the sump back to he rear diff. think they even did this on the older 2WD cars too.....
i dont see why you dont use the Prosche G50. great box, loads of kits avaliable and tried and tested in 1000++bhp mid engined kit cars all over the world!
if not i know a guy over here that can build a transverse gearbox for the LS engine. its been built for 3500bph engines so you are not going to brake it! lol
Chris.
i dont see why you dont use the Prosche G50. great box, loads of kits avaliable and tried and tested in 1000++bhp mid engined kit cars all over the world!
if not i know a guy over here that can build a transverse gearbox for the LS engine. its been built for 3500bph engines so you are not going to brake it! lol
Chris.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
I don't think I need to go mid-engine. We can get a mod to close this thread.
I can raise the engine and k-member 2" and build my new frame and front/rear suspensions. It's a compromise, but will still be the lowest 4th gen around. Even lower than Slammed1500's camaro. See the project Super Low thread.
Dochall, I feel a bit sorry for you. Maybe some day you'll figure out what car customizing is all about. I certainly don't have the time to explain it to you.
I can raise the engine and k-member 2" and build my new frame and front/rear suspensions. It's a compromise, but will still be the lowest 4th gen around. Even lower than Slammed1500's camaro. See the project Super Low thread.
Dochall, I feel a bit sorry for you. Maybe some day you'll figure out what car customizing is all about. I certainly don't have the time to explain it to you.
Last edited by JasonWW; Nov 18, 2008 at 02:58 AM.
Have you considered hacking up the firewall and moving the transmission to the rear like a vette? Move the engine back with a custom K-member and using plates to mount the engine as far back as possible. You would have to tear the car virtually apart to attempt this, but it should buy you about 3 inches in the front of the car or more....
Just thinking.
Obviously you would also move the seats back and even might get rid of the rear seat. The front shield would also be a further distance away (as if it wasnt far enough from factory).
Just thinking.
Obviously you would also move the seats back and even might get rid of the rear seat. The front shield would also be a further distance away (as if it wasnt far enough from factory).
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
Have you considered hacking up the firewall and moving the transmission to the rear like a vette? Move the engine back with a custom K-member and using plates to mount the engine as far back as possible. You would have to tear the car virtually apart to attempt this, but it should buy you about 3 inches in the front of the car or more....
Just thinking.
Obviously you would also move the seats back and even might get rid of the rear seat. The front shield would also be a further distance away (as if it wasnt far enough from factory).
Just thinking.
Obviously you would also move the seats back and even might get rid of the rear seat. The front shield would also be a further distance away (as if it wasnt far enough from factory).
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