Latest and Greatest Proper Engine Break in Procedure
03-14-2018, 07:10 PM
#21
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I can't say I ran anything scientific, but at 5.5 quarts I used to see oil pressure drop on WOT pulls near the top of the pull. Went to 6.5 and stopped seeing it. That was on f body oil pan.
Question - does the Y block make a difference here? Overfilling the SBC I could see it being an issue. But the Y block - does that added clearance eliminate much of the reason behind the overfill = bad consensus?
Question - does the Y block make a difference here? Overfilling the SBC I could see it being an issue. But the Y block - does that added clearance eliminate much of the reason behind the overfill = bad consensus?
03-14-2018, 07:13 PM
#22
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Another question(s) - was there honestly anything wrong with the way I broke it in??
Should low tension rings have a diff procedure vs rings of old?
Have major advances in lubricants changed things? I remember an oil cap saying "do not use whale blubber". Compare that to castrol edge for example.
Have advanced in marching (tighter clearances) changed the procedure or is that more where lubricants come in?
Should low tension rings have a diff procedure vs rings of old?
Have major advances in lubricants changed things? I remember an oil cap saying "do not use whale blubber". Compare that to castrol edge for example.
Have advanced in marching (tighter clearances) changed the procedure or is that more where lubricants come in?
03-14-2018, 07:47 PM
#23
TECH Senior Member
Not sure it makes any difference. The old smallblock oil pans had a lot more depth than LS pans just to accommodate the crank hanging down into it. By comparison, the LS pans I see (possibly except the truck pans) appear a lot shallower than the old stamped SBC pans.
03-15-2018, 06:52 AM
#24
Look at how shallow the Vette batwing pan is.
I don't thing there's anything wrong with how Darth broke it in, it just makes things interesting talking about which way is best. There's also viewpoints like this dude:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
I don't thing there's anything wrong with how Darth broke it in, it just makes things interesting talking about which way is best. There's also viewpoints like this dude:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
03-15-2018, 10:43 AM
#25
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Hone Stone Grit Size Hi ALL, what I have read in this thread (both) may be the BEST LS "tech" posts, help for all members.
I will add, in the 1970's we used a different ring pack AND a different cylinder wall honing procedures. (100 grit stones)
Today most common, with steel rings, is 280 Grit with 400 Grit as the final pass.
THUS to be fair, provide good tech, we should specify a cylinder hone method.
This too MUST match the fitted ring pack for proper tech.
SO I ASK, "Post your cylinder wall hone method, stone grits, block temps ?
Then state best run in method for for each style of rings/wall prep
Lance
I will add, in the 1970's we used a different ring pack AND a different cylinder wall honing procedures. (100 grit stones)
Today most common, with steel rings, is 280 Grit with 400 Grit as the final pass.
THUS to be fair, provide good tech, we should specify a cylinder hone method.
This too MUST match the fitted ring pack for proper tech.
SO I ASK, "Post your cylinder wall hone method, stone grits, block temps ?
Then state best run in method for for each style of rings/wall prep
Lance
03-15-2018, 01:04 PM
#26
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Not trying to be stupid, but my honing method is to pay a machine shop because I don't want to eff it up and be on the hook for it.
As to the link, I do subscribe to the "Load it up early" method, but not immediately. I like to at least get a couple of heat cycles in to make sure the bearings and oil surfaces are all good and lubed up first. Then, I do 20-50 mph in second like I posted and coast back down in gear. Not sure I agree with why the author says load it up. I always felt it had more to do with just getting them properly seated
As to the link, I do subscribe to the "Load it up early" method, but not immediately. I like to at least get a couple of heat cycles in to make sure the bearings and oil surfaces are all good and lubed up first. Then, I do 20-50 mph in second like I posted and coast back down in gear. Not sure I agree with why the author says load it up. I always felt it had more to do with just getting them properly seated
Last edited by Darth_V8r; 03-15-2018 at 02:19 PM.
03-15-2018, 01:47 PM
#27
TECH Senior Member
03-15-2018, 06:46 PM
#28
I think KCS mentioned that engine breaking promotes getting oil up onto the cylinder walls. I hadn't heard that explaination before and thought it was interesting.
I'd also be curious what someone like Thompson Motorsports thinks since they build engines as a business.
Curious why the oems don't usually subscribe to this load early method.
I'd also be curious what someone like Thompson Motorsports thinks since they build engines as a business.
Curious why the oems don't usually subscribe to this load early method.
03-15-2018, 08:48 PM
#29
TECH Senior Member
Sounds plausible. This might sound weird, but I liken it to seasoning a cast frying pan to get oil into the pores of the cylinder walls. The honing cross-hatch pattern promotes this; in fact likely the main reason for doing it, at the risk of being too .
03-16-2018, 10:31 AM
#30
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Oil Cooling of Cylinder walls Hi Gary, your "frying pan" tech is a GREAT way to explain HOW oil cools an engine.
AS WE KNOW, cold oil flow is SLOW AND hot oil flow is faster.
Oil flow IS what removes heat NOT the Oil Temperature difference.
THUS cold oil on cylinder walls will remove less heat between the rings/cylinder wall.
I have fit Cartridge Heaters into LS Oil pans to heat the oil before startup.
I sell this item for $60.00.
Lance
AS WE KNOW, cold oil flow is SLOW AND hot oil flow is faster.
Oil flow IS what removes heat NOT the Oil Temperature difference.
THUS cold oil on cylinder walls will remove less heat between the rings/cylinder wall.
I have fit Cartridge Heaters into LS Oil pans to heat the oil before startup.
I sell this item for $60.00.
Lance
03-20-2018, 05:05 PM
#31
TECH Addict
now that we have roller lifters, i dont really worry much about breakin. i like to run it with no coolant til the head is hot to touch then let it cool overnight before filling with water, but as long as the engine is built correctly, i doubt it matters that much in the long run.
03-20-2018, 05:42 PM
#32
TECH Senior Member
now that we have roller lifters, i dont really worry much about breakin. i like to run it with no coolant til the head is hot to touch then let it cool overnight before filling with water, but as long as the engine is built correctly, i doubt it matters that much in the long run.
03-20-2018, 06:07 PM
#33
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I think its something that doesn't make that much of a difference in the long run as long as you dont do something grossly incorrect.
modern materials science and manufacturing negates the need to do the break in rain dance of the 20th century.
Last edited by TrendSetter; 03-20-2018 at 06:12 PM.
03-20-2018, 06:51 PM
#34
TECH Senior Member
sounds like you have never started a flat tappet motor for the first time
I think its something that doesn't make that much of a difference in the long run as long as you dont do something grossly incorrect.
modern materials science and manufacturing negates the need to do the break in rain dance of the 20th century.
I think its something that doesn't make that much of a difference in the long run as long as you dont do something grossly incorrect.
modern materials science and manufacturing negates the need to do the break in rain dance of the 20th century.
03-20-2018, 07:12 PM
#35
Look at how shallow the Vette batwing pan is.
I don't thing there's anything wrong with how Darth broke it in, it just makes things interesting talking about which way is best. There's also viewpoints like this dude:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
I don't thing there's anything wrong with how Darth broke it in, it just makes things interesting talking about which way is best. There's also viewpoints like this dude:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Most high performance powersports toys these days use a plated cylinder (nikasil) which is harder than the hubs of hell. So you really only get a short chance to break the rings in. On sleds (2 stroke, 800cc, 155-160 hp) There have been several instrumented dyno test done, that show an engine broken in hard, and soon makes more power than the same one given a gentile break in. (~5 hp or more)
Last edited by Krom; 03-20-2018 at 07:19 PM.
03-20-2018, 07:14 PM
#36
Most high performance powersports toys these days use a plated cylinder (nikasil) which is harder than the hubs of hell. So you really only get a short chance to break the rings in. On sleds (2 stroke, 800cc, 155-160 hp) There have been several instrumented dyno test done, that show an engine broken in hard, and soon makes more power than the same one given a gentile break in. (5 hp or more)
04-27-2018, 11:39 PM
#37
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I believe in the MototunesUSA break-in procedure
and My Engine Builder Dustin Lee used a very
similar procedure for my 396"
.
Its all about the ring seal,and it happens very
quick...or should.
and My Engine Builder Dustin Lee used a very
similar procedure for my 396"
.
Its all about the ring seal,and it happens very
quick...or should.
05-14-2018, 02:35 AM
#38
I'm in the same boat...rebuilding an ls6 right now. Got a build thread going in the gen 3 internal section. I figured I'd fire it up and let it idle to operating temp to make sure no leaks etc. Let it cool. Come back later and drive it and start varying throttle and dial in the AFR...then wot pulls. Until Lance posted that up and threw me off lol.
I am a strong believer in running an LS at 190 degrees or less. Kept some rather high hp pump gas street cars alive that way even though people claim they're fine at 210.
I also am a pretty strong believer in the Shell conventional Rotella. I don't get into the synthetic stuff and believe in more frequent oil changes in general. A secondary reason for changing the oil other than the oil breaking over time, is that it also cleans and removes junk from the motor. When you change it more frequently you remove debris and impurities more frequently.
Also becoming a big believer in running more than 5.5 quarts and leaning more towards 6.5 or 7. Seeing alot of high hp street guys logging oil pressure with accurate resolution now and hard qcceleration is dropping the fuel pressure significantly even if only momentarily.
I am a strong believer in running an LS at 190 degrees or less. Kept some rather high hp pump gas street cars alive that way even though people claim they're fine at 210.
I also am a pretty strong believer in the Shell conventional Rotella. I don't get into the synthetic stuff and believe in more frequent oil changes in general. A secondary reason for changing the oil other than the oil breaking over time, is that it also cleans and removes junk from the motor. When you change it more frequently you remove debris and impurities more frequently.
Also becoming a big believer in running more than 5.5 quarts and leaning more towards 6.5 or 7. Seeing alot of high hp street guys logging oil pressure with accurate resolution now and hard qcceleration is dropping the fuel pressure significantly even if only momentarily.
05-14-2018, 07:03 AM
#39
Will likely get flamed for this, but I don't care. Start the thing dry (no water) let it run for about a minute or so, kill it and go to bed.... done deal. Next day, put water in it... and roll out. As far as priming a fresh LS build, not necessary. When building it, coat every bearing with a healthy amount of Lucas assembly lube, and you will not have dry start. There will be a brief rattle, but pressure will come in quickly.
05-14-2018, 08:45 AM
#40
You basically said what Trendsetter said in post 31. As far as priming, after seeing some stuff online and realizing you can gravity feed the oil pump through the plug in the DS of the block and then crank it with no spark, seems like a no brainer to do it before you go live. Can't hurt and only helps get oil going quicker.