How do NASCAR engines make 750+HP?
10-26-2005, 11:42 PM
#81
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you talk about limiting expenses but with every rule they ad to nascar to limit the hp of the motor the teams just spend even more money and get the same or even more hp out of the motor .... one nascar engine builder told me that some of the new rules made him look at parts of the motor that he would have never looked at before ...... also these builders sell off the stuff that has been outlawed and sometimes even build motors for drag cars with some of it ....... one I know of built with leftovers made 850 hp on the dyno with out any tuneup and when I left they said 900 hp should be there when they where done with there junk motor ...... I also asked what a plate motor would do without the plate and a good carb and was told " it would blow up"
10-26-2005, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by caddycarlo
you talk about limiting expenses but with every rule they ad to nascar to limit the hp of the motor the teams just spend even more money and get the same or even more hp out of the motor .... one nascar engine builder told me that some of the new rules made him look at parts of the motor that he would have never looked at before ...... also these builders sell off the stuff that has been outlawed and sometimes even build motors for drag cars with some of it ....... one I know of built with leftovers made 850 hp on the dyno with out any tuneup and when I left they said 900 hp should be there when they where done with there junk motor ...... I also asked what a plate motor would do without the plate and a good carb and was told " it would blow up"
10-27-2005, 12:12 AM
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you get the speed to high and the drivers will not last long ..... but I agree that I am not sure they are going about it the right way ...... the nascar rulebook has so much in it I do not know how the builders remember ..... as for me I will stick to drag racing ........and I think there is some true stock car racing out there but it does not have the fan base the big boys do ....
10-27-2005, 06:42 AM
#85
its like all forms of motorsport, the teams (with the money they have) will allways try to make a car faster! and for the teams with really big budgets this means they will pull the rule book apart looking for the smallest loop whole that will give them an advantage! take a look at F1 this season. less down force, engines made to last TWO race weekends, tires to last the whole race (and qualifing) less driver aids, etc, etc. and yet there where still lap records broken!
this is why there are soo many rules in motor sport these days, to try and keep the speeds to reasonable! otherwise teams would be getting through drivers nearly as fast as cars!!!!!
Chris.
this is why there are soo many rules in motor sport these days, to try and keep the speeds to reasonable! otherwise teams would be getting through drivers nearly as fast as cars!!!!!
Chris.
10-27-2005, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by caddycarlo
you talk about limiting expenses but with every rule they ad to nascar to limit the hp of the motor the teams just spend even more money and get the same or even more hp out of the motor .... one nascar engine builder told me that some of the new rules made him look at parts of the motor that he would have never looked at before ...... also these builders sell off the stuff that has been outlawed and sometimes even build motors for drag cars with some of it ....... one I know of built with leftovers made 850 hp on the dyno with out any tuneup and when I left they said 900 hp should be there when they where done with there junk motor ...... I also asked what a plate motor would do without the plate and a good carb and was told " it would blow up"
..... I meet far to many "bench racers" sorry..nothing annoys me more than storys that beging... "this one guy told me"
First off... he could be embellishing... then you post it on the internet, another opportunity for embellishing.. (not razzin you, just in general)
Then again... this is the internet... everything is fact
10-27-2005, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by BigBlockChev572
OK. From what is known, NASCAR engines are making around 750+ HP. Some people on this forum say they are running ungodly compression ratios. No they aren't. They're limited to 12:1. They must have a cast iron block and have a choice of aluminium heads or cast iron. The engines are around the 350-355ci mark right? Aren't the combustion chambers limited to 61CC? ( I know they are limited), Cam specs are limited etc. I know items such as the oil gallery are polished smoothe for improved oil flow, etc.
But in all possibilites, it's impossible for a 350CI engine to run the HP they are running N/A right?? Engine masters are only making 600HP and up with a max restriction of 366ci in the small block competition. Although they are restricted to pump gas. But still, John Kasse was running in the upwards of 35 degrees of timing on his winning pull (it was detonating though, but that's why he has coatings).
Am I missing something?
Thanks,
Philip S.
But in all possibilites, it's impossible for a 350CI engine to run the HP they are running N/A right?? Engine masters are only making 600HP and up with a max restriction of 366ci in the small block competition. Although they are restricted to pump gas. But still, John Kasse was running in the upwards of 35 degrees of timing on his winning pull (it was detonating though, but that's why he has coatings).
Am I missing something?
Thanks,
Philip S.
10-28-2005, 09:58 AM
#89
Originally Posted by vipex70
is that with diesel?
10-28-2005, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Zzambucca
It was Smoky Yunick that was one of the first to run, maybe just to get caught, running an acid dipped car. He is also the one that ran a 2" fuel line over 10 feet through the car in 1966. After the race, they said he was cheating, so they pulled the gas tank out of the car, he jumped in, started it, and drove it to the pits. He is the person that most of the rules in the Nascar rule book were for. Some of the things he did were just amazing. He is the reason for body templates also. In '66, he built a 7/8 scale Chevelle. Nobody noticed the smaller car until it was placed next to a real car.
RIP Smokey.
10-28-2005, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 8KickassRS9
a 10-11krpm 350+ cid motor with 100+ hp would be really cool. although i think they should go back to the "stock" car theme and just let the teams use what they have... hell let em use new ****.. can we say 10k rpm ls1 with 1000 or more hp. nascar, the orginization, isnt really keeping up with technology. im so sick of new rules being implemented on a weekly basis. give em there 1-2 inches of spoiler back and make the tires not so suseptable to blow outs.
Let em haul ***
10-28-2005, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Zzambucca
It was Smoky Yunick that was one of the first to run, maybe just to get caught, running an acid dipped car. He is also the one that ran a 2" fuel line over 10 feet through the car in 1966. After the race, they said he was cheating, so they pulled the gas tank out of the car, he jumped in, started it, and drove it to the pits. He is the person that most of the rules in the Nascar rule book were for. Some of the things he did were just amazing. He is the reason for body templates also. In '66, he built a 7/8 scale Chevelle. Nobody noticed the smaller car until it was placed next to a real car.
10-28-2005, 08:53 PM
#94
First off the plates are never going to come off the cars and the trucks will be running them next season.. with no plates all you'd have is the same thing as now but with another 50 MPH added to it 90% of teams are pretty close on power so no team would have a huge advantage. Car and driver did a article on a cup car and it listed the standing 1/4 somewhere in the mid 11's beofre the clutch gave out if you had different tires and clutch screwed around with the suspension you should do alot better concidering a modern car is 750+ rwhp and 3400 pounds. I get a chance on a daily bassis to see these types of engine assembled and dyno'ed if I wasnt scared of loosing my job I might be able to share a little....Unfortunatley(sp) my buisness is the drivetrain and I get to see the kinds of havoc unleashed on transmission's driveshafts gears and axles...Some people asked about used parts...the good stuff is sitting on a shelf far from the prying eye and has a date with the blast furnace to avoid falling into the wrong hands if you buy a engine from a team..if they even sell one chances are its last years stuff...
10-29-2005, 12:42 AM
#95
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Originally Posted by NHRAMAN
YUP,SMOKEY was a great guy I bet---imagine some other tales we don't know about...
That black and gold 66 chevelle, nascar said you couldnt run bodypans under the car so he ended up making the floorpans even with the bottom of the frame, something about since the car was 7/8 scale he moved the engine back a couple inches too w/o detection. The 66 was a sweet car and what NASCAR should be about... not bitching and moaning because Chevy designed a better car (the Lumnia body) and cleaned house, until nascar made another 500 rules to make thigs "equal" again. I think that was the beginning of the end of Nascar for myself.
10-29-2005, 01:32 AM
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This is a great thread. I'm getting ready to go to NTI in 2 months to start learning....and after reading all this looks like that will be exactly what I'm doing. Thanks for all the info to the guys that are in the buisness have posted.
10-29-2005, 10:20 AM
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I just graduated NTI in June. There are alot of good teachers there that have worked in Nascar for a long time. One of them was building a Craftsman Truck in his garage. Mr. Fieste was a Daytona 500, Indy 500, and drag race winning engine builder. He is an engine GOD. Mr. Brewer is a god when it comes to camshafts/valve timing. Ask everyone every question you can while you are there, you will learn so much.
10-29-2005, 10:25 AM
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Lot's and Lot's of money.
It's been a while since I have touched a Nascar motor, the last one I touched was a Bowtie motor... not a SB2.
For starters the heads have an amazing amount of work in them...a **** load of work in them.
$1k connecting rods, $800 pistons, $2000 one off custom cranks, expensive bearings, big solid roller cams, $1000 rocker arms, etc etc etc etc.....
The last motor I worked on was my cousins dirt track motor, and it was built for a longer track..... the cam didnt start making power until after 4500rpms, and it peaked just after 9k..... we had to gear the crap out of his dirt track car to compensate, since the longest track he was usually on was 1/3mi......
here are some pics of us dyno'ing it after a rebuild... check out the 5 stage belt driven oil pump.... that oiling system is the wildest thing I have ever seen.... http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mazoo_69/my_photos... the pics are under the folder dyno pics....
It's been a while since I have touched a Nascar motor, the last one I touched was a Bowtie motor... not a SB2.
For starters the heads have an amazing amount of work in them...a **** load of work in them.
$1k connecting rods, $800 pistons, $2000 one off custom cranks, expensive bearings, big solid roller cams, $1000 rocker arms, etc etc etc etc.....
The last motor I worked on was my cousins dirt track motor, and it was built for a longer track..... the cam didnt start making power until after 4500rpms, and it peaked just after 9k..... we had to gear the crap out of his dirt track car to compensate, since the longest track he was usually on was 1/3mi......
here are some pics of us dyno'ing it after a rebuild... check out the 5 stage belt driven oil pump.... that oiling system is the wildest thing I have ever seen.... http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mazoo_69/my_photos... the pics are under the folder dyno pics....
10-29-2005, 02:11 PM
#99
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Originally Posted by SporkLover
Lot's and Lot's of money.
It's been a while since I have touched a Nascar motor, the last one I touched was a Bowtie motor... not a SB2.
For starters the heads have an amazing amount of work in them...a **** load of work in them.
$1k connecting rods, $800 pistons, $2000 one off custom cranks, expensive bearings, big solid roller cams, $1000 rocker arms, etc etc etc etc.....
It's been a while since I have touched a Nascar motor, the last one I touched was a Bowtie motor... not a SB2.
For starters the heads have an amazing amount of work in them...a **** load of work in them.
$1k connecting rods, $800 pistons, $2000 one off custom cranks, expensive bearings, big solid roller cams, $1000 rocker arms, etc etc etc etc.....
"R & D and part cost expand to fill the available money."---with apologies to C.N. Parkinson
10-30-2005, 04:27 PM
#100
Originally Posted by MAXIMO
Just out of curiosity would anyone know what kind of time a car would do on an 1/8 or 1/4 mile,
Last edited by gollum; 10-30-2005 at 04:54 PM.