need help with car
11-08-2005, 04:36 PM
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need help with car I am new to this board. I want to build a super street car. Please go to my post in the "Racing Department/Road Racing" section. I need to find people who are experts with these cars and people who have really gone a these high speeds on real roads. No bull, just a plea for help. Thank you.
11-08-2005, 05:33 PM
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His initial post sounded sincere, so I actually went here. Read this:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...31#post3765731
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...31#post3765731
11-08-2005, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Adrenaline_Z
His initial post sounded sincere, so I actually went here. Read this:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...31#post3765731
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...31#post3765731
.with what you wanna do, youre going to have to take into account the aerodynamics of the car itself and probablly a tube chassis for it to be stable enough as most of the unlimiteds do. now, i know most here will bite my head off BUT a nascar style adjustable wing might be best for rear downforce even if its a WS6. the front fascia extended to the ground then ground down so it has 0 clearance. the obect is to get a car that is stable at high speeds yet still maneuverable(sp). its been said how to go 200mph in a strait line in terms of aerodynamics, but turnng is another matter. this may end up a car that will have to be trailored to the event so budget planning may be more than nessecary. the small fins or veins or whatever they are called on top of stock cars may also be a good idea as itll act like an aircrafts tail and help stableize the car. i would almos reccomend an IRS (independent rear suspension) setup for this as while it may sap more power, itll contour to the road better. hopefully the avid road racers on her will chime in onthis thread or the other.
11-08-2005, 08:08 PM
#6
Ok. I PM'd Nate SS about this. HE is a competitor in the SSC. If I remember correctly (IIRC is the abreviation), it's the 151-160 MPH class. Could be wrong though.
Ok. 1st tip would be to read over this article here. It goes into some details on his car that he uses in the challenge.
http://gmhightechperformance.com/fea...0503htp_speed/
I will say you should look into the technology that goes into NASCAR. Those cars are alot like what you'll use and some ideas should be taking from that. Stuff like Differential coolers. You are talking about making a car Extremely durable. That will take good parts selection and a good plan of what your goals are and budget. Be very reasonable there.
I will say this is what I've noticed: Differential coolers, Larger capacity radiators, Biggest Breaks you can get on there, light weight, but strong wheels, Great Tires. Good suspension parts, list goes on.
I'll just add some thoughts from time to time since I'm not that experienced at all in something that demanding.
For car selection, the F-Body may be cheaper, but the Vette has better Aerodynamics and an IRS. (independant Rear Suspension). Those will help out imensly.
Ok. 1st tip would be to read over this article here. It goes into some details on his car that he uses in the challenge.
http://gmhightechperformance.com/fea...0503htp_speed/
I will say you should look into the technology that goes into NASCAR. Those cars are alot like what you'll use and some ideas should be taking from that. Stuff like Differential coolers. You are talking about making a car Extremely durable. That will take good parts selection and a good plan of what your goals are and budget. Be very reasonable there.
I will say this is what I've noticed: Differential coolers, Larger capacity radiators, Biggest Breaks you can get on there, light weight, but strong wheels, Great Tires. Good suspension parts, list goes on.
I'll just add some thoughts from time to time since I'm not that experienced at all in something that demanding.
For car selection, the F-Body may be cheaper, but the Vette has better Aerodynamics and an IRS. (independant Rear Suspension). Those will help out imensly.
11-09-2005, 05:11 PM
#7
OK, I have read both of the posts now and have a few minutes to reply.
From what I gather your intentions are you plan on competing in the classes w/ a 165mph tech speed. I'll just say it now though, if you plan on going faster than 165mph, be ready to spend about a metric fuckton of cash and I am not joking. And judging from your post the amount of money your ready to spend on the car itself might get you to the 165mph tech speed not including the cost of a 93+fbody.
Your main concern running with a 165mph IMHO is going to be your suspension set up. Racehead runs a Koni DA up front and Bilstien HD's in the rear on Eibach springs and his car handles great. The factory suspension is garbage and whoever thought of putting it on these car should be drug out into town square and shot. It has aboslutely no rebound in it and even the compression side of the shocks is lacking greatly. Thats the big reason our cars are stigmatized as straight line cars, the float.
You will also want a Z rated tire. The rules are very clear as to what rating you can run in any given speed class. But in my book, unless you are in a UNL. class cup car or something comparable that is running a cup tire you run a Z rated tire, period.
Running at 165mph will require you to look into cooling and I dont mean just the motor. You have to cool the engine oil, trans fluid and dif fluid. ESPESCIALLY the diff. That thing gets hot, but thats another story. I run a LG Motorsports "supercool" radiator w/ built in oil cooler. Best way to cool a fluid is with another fluid. Alot of people run air/fluid coolers but the best way to cool a fluid will always be with another fluid. The trans and diff will both need thier own individual pump and cooling element. Those you can safely use air/fluid type coolers.
Stay aways from electric waterpumps. They are not built for this type of racing. They have a set flow that matches a certain RPM built in by the manf. generally speaking its right around 4500rpm. Thats great for drag racers because they only go above 4500 for a very short period of time. Engine temp will not get near hot enough in that short of a time frame to have an effect on anything. At 150mph you are encroaching on 5000rpm. Even though its only 500 rpm more it makes a big difference becauseyou are now outpacing the flow capability of the pump itself and stuff starts to get hot. Go any faster than that and the temps begin to climb rapidly. A stock pump will work fine for ORR applications.
A good alignment will do more to help you than just about anything. You do not want a "high performance" alignment. Get one of those and you can kiss your tires goodbye. Road race alignments are good on a race track not on in a ORR event. You want a hair of toe in (1/16th), hair of camber (.5)and as much castor as you can get. Fbodys are right around 5-6* castor with all factory stuff and thats good. You basically want a solid street alignment. To much camber puts to much of a load on the now reduced contact patch and now recude that contact patch even farther by giveing yourself a bunch of toe out and minimal castor and your tires will not survive long at all. Why dont you ask little Mr. Inada about how long his tires lasted before having a catastrophic accident. He lost a left rear tire due to them delaminating from heat. In video you can see he had a TON of camber on the tires. So instead of using the entire contact patch he was effectively using less than half the tire. Less contact patch=less area to bleed heat. His crash was caused by his own ignorace and he had no business even competing in the class he was in, but it all could have been avoided with a different alignment. Oh, by the way, he made it 7 miles from the start line before his **** came apart.
Personal safety inside the car is also something you need to look into. Rules require at least a roll bar for a 165mph tech. I have alot more than a roll bar because if things go south at 165mph I just dont want single bar protecting me. But the rules only require a roll bar. This is a judgment call for you to make. A 5pt harness is also required by the rules. The rules are very specific as to how this has to be set up in the car. You will also need the current helmet that meets the SA requirements. Now I believe it is an SA 2000 helmet or better. a fire suit will also be required. I use a Sparco 2 layer and then have the sparco long johns underneath, to include the socks and balaclava. The neck doghnuts are also required. Along with gloves and proper racing shoes/boots.
A stock motored fbody with some headers and an intake will run 165mph all day long. Yeah, youre going to be pushing it pretty hard but it will do it. you will also need to keep up with the maintenence religiously. I put fresh oil in right before the event and change it right after the event is over. 90-130 miles on an oil change isnt cheap, but its cheap insurance for your motor.
Get out and take a GOOD driving school. The faster the track the better. That Derick Daley school is a JOKE. They are only checking to make sure you have a pulse behind the wheel and comprehend the difference between the brake and the throttle.
Once you decide to get into the 180mph tech speed area is when stuff really changes and you need to break out the visa. BIG cages, fuel cells, on board fire sytems etc. The rules in ORR revolve completely around safety. There are no limits other than power adders you can do to the motor.
Any questions?
Think safe, then go fast.
From what I gather your intentions are you plan on competing in the classes w/ a 165mph tech speed. I'll just say it now though, if you plan on going faster than 165mph, be ready to spend about a metric fuckton of cash and I am not joking. And judging from your post the amount of money your ready to spend on the car itself might get you to the 165mph tech speed not including the cost of a 93+fbody.
Your main concern running with a 165mph IMHO is going to be your suspension set up. Racehead runs a Koni DA up front and Bilstien HD's in the rear on Eibach springs and his car handles great. The factory suspension is garbage and whoever thought of putting it on these car should be drug out into town square and shot. It has aboslutely no rebound in it and even the compression side of the shocks is lacking greatly. Thats the big reason our cars are stigmatized as straight line cars, the float.
You will also want a Z rated tire. The rules are very clear as to what rating you can run in any given speed class. But in my book, unless you are in a UNL. class cup car or something comparable that is running a cup tire you run a Z rated tire, period.
Running at 165mph will require you to look into cooling and I dont mean just the motor. You have to cool the engine oil, trans fluid and dif fluid. ESPESCIALLY the diff. That thing gets hot, but thats another story. I run a LG Motorsports "supercool" radiator w/ built in oil cooler. Best way to cool a fluid is with another fluid. Alot of people run air/fluid coolers but the best way to cool a fluid will always be with another fluid. The trans and diff will both need thier own individual pump and cooling element. Those you can safely use air/fluid type coolers.
Stay aways from electric waterpumps. They are not built for this type of racing. They have a set flow that matches a certain RPM built in by the manf. generally speaking its right around 4500rpm. Thats great for drag racers because they only go above 4500 for a very short period of time. Engine temp will not get near hot enough in that short of a time frame to have an effect on anything. At 150mph you are encroaching on 5000rpm. Even though its only 500 rpm more it makes a big difference becauseyou are now outpacing the flow capability of the pump itself and stuff starts to get hot. Go any faster than that and the temps begin to climb rapidly. A stock pump will work fine for ORR applications.
A good alignment will do more to help you than just about anything. You do not want a "high performance" alignment. Get one of those and you can kiss your tires goodbye. Road race alignments are good on a race track not on in a ORR event. You want a hair of toe in (1/16th), hair of camber (.5)and as much castor as you can get. Fbodys are right around 5-6* castor with all factory stuff and thats good. You basically want a solid street alignment. To much camber puts to much of a load on the now reduced contact patch and now recude that contact patch even farther by giveing yourself a bunch of toe out and minimal castor and your tires will not survive long at all. Why dont you ask little Mr. Inada about how long his tires lasted before having a catastrophic accident. He lost a left rear tire due to them delaminating from heat. In video you can see he had a TON of camber on the tires. So instead of using the entire contact patch he was effectively using less than half the tire. Less contact patch=less area to bleed heat. His crash was caused by his own ignorace and he had no business even competing in the class he was in, but it all could have been avoided with a different alignment. Oh, by the way, he made it 7 miles from the start line before his **** came apart.
Personal safety inside the car is also something you need to look into. Rules require at least a roll bar for a 165mph tech. I have alot more than a roll bar because if things go south at 165mph I just dont want single bar protecting me. But the rules only require a roll bar. This is a judgment call for you to make. A 5pt harness is also required by the rules. The rules are very specific as to how this has to be set up in the car. You will also need the current helmet that meets the SA requirements. Now I believe it is an SA 2000 helmet or better. a fire suit will also be required. I use a Sparco 2 layer and then have the sparco long johns underneath, to include the socks and balaclava. The neck doghnuts are also required. Along with gloves and proper racing shoes/boots.
A stock motored fbody with some headers and an intake will run 165mph all day long. Yeah, youre going to be pushing it pretty hard but it will do it. you will also need to keep up with the maintenence religiously. I put fresh oil in right before the event and change it right after the event is over. 90-130 miles on an oil change isnt cheap, but its cheap insurance for your motor.
Get out and take a GOOD driving school. The faster the track the better. That Derick Daley school is a JOKE. They are only checking to make sure you have a pulse behind the wheel and comprehend the difference between the brake and the throttle.
Once you decide to get into the 180mph tech speed area is when stuff really changes and you need to break out the visa. BIG cages, fuel cells, on board fire sytems etc. The rules in ORR revolve completely around safety. There are no limits other than power adders you can do to the motor.
Any questions?
Think safe, then go fast.
Last edited by NataSS Inc; 11-09-2005 at 05:25 PM.
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11-13-2005, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MakoLS1
good job on posting this in every single section on the board!