vic Jr versus Standard intake question....
05-09-2006, 10:46 PM
#122
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LS1408cp-what did LME end up with flow wise. I talked to them about your intake. I`m having the same problem with my ET 245`s outflowing my ported LSX90mm intake. Mike,( G-Force) had a hard time getting more power because the intake choked my set-up. We couldn`t run more than 22 degrees timing. Anymore we lost power. I`m looking for a new intake set-up with car in sig. Was looking to see your results before buying and spending the money. These ET heads just flow really we`ll. What do you think of my cam 244 248 612 615 113. Would this be good for a victor. Anyone have any ideas what would be good for me. Thanks for the good info fellas! This is with car in sig! 
05-10-2006, 11:11 AM
#123
Originally Posted by beardWS6
LS1408cp-what did LME end up with flow wise. I talked to them about your intake. I`m having the same problem with my ET 245`s outflowing my ported LSX90mm intake. Mike,( G-Force) had a hard time getting more power because the intake choked my set-up. We couldn`t run more than 22 degrees timing. Anymore we lost power. I`m looking for a new intake set-up with car in sig. Was looking to see your results before buying and spending the money. These ET heads just flow really we`ll. What do you think of my cam 244 248 612 615 113. Would this be good for a victor. Anyone have any ideas what would be good for me. Thanks for the good info fellas! This is with car in sig!
As for the cam, the 244/248 cookie cutter 408 cam is way off on a Vic Jr. It's a completely different setup and needs a much different cam.
The real deal is what RPM range are you running in. IMHO the Vic Jr on a small motor is only good from 4500+ and even then I would want more stall than that.
Bret
05-10-2006, 07:12 PM
#124
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I just watched a fully ported vic (cut in half, ported, and rewelded) keep up with some BIG all pro heads to about 325 cfm. Thats about the best supporting intake # I have seen thus far.
Brandon
Brandon
05-15-2006, 10:36 AM
#127
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Originally Posted by Fireball
so what areas of the intake can be addressed to help overall flow (other than port matching)?
Plenum roof?
divider walls?
Plenum roof?
divider walls?
Brandon
05-15-2006, 10:40 AM
#128
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just to add some fuel to this debate, check out this thread in FI:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ighlight=Tiago
there is a sketch of the port overlays that my setup had, AFR225 to the victor jr. you can see there was not much room to gain. Once assembled it lined up perfect too, the room to gain really is on the sides, but you will get close to the o ring groove fast.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ighlight=Tiago
there is a sketch of the port overlays that my setup had, AFR225 to the victor jr. you can see there was not much room to gain. Once assembled it lined up perfect too, the room to gain really is on the sides, but you will get close to the o ring groove fast.
05-15-2006, 12:03 PM
#129
Originally Posted by xfactor_pitbulls
Firstly, they need alittle more volume to start with, bascially everywhere. The long ports on each end need to be shaved back at the entrances alittle. Each of the curved walls can be contoured down some, and that is part of your adding volume as well.
Brandon
Brandon
Your going the right direction with that... the bad thing is the intake needs a lot of work in the plenum and sometimes there is not enough material there to do it.
Bret
05-15-2006, 12:08 PM
#130
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Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
Brandon,
Your going the right direction with that... the bad thing is the intake needs a lot of work in the plenum and sometimes there is not enough material there to do it.
Bret
Your going the right direction with that... the bad thing is the intake needs a lot of work in the plenum and sometimes there is not enough material there to do it.
Bret
05-15-2006, 08:40 PM
#132
with re: to the elbows
Isn't the plenum volume of the stock victor jr. a little big for a stock cube LS1?
Presuming it is (and I am) then wouldn't a elbow just act as a really big spacer (that you don't need), there-by reducing performance?
I'm building a high rpm 346 (still trying to figure out how high I want to spin with only reinforcing the rod bolts, definitely not above 7200 if even that) and was thinking about making an adapter plate (aluminum or something with more phenolic characteristics) to mount a stock LS2 90mm tb vertically to keep the plenum space as small as possible.
thoughts?
Isn't the plenum volume of the stock victor jr. a little big for a stock cube LS1?
Presuming it is (and I am) then wouldn't a elbow just act as a really big spacer (that you don't need), there-by reducing performance?
I'm building a high rpm 346 (still trying to figure out how high I want to spin with only reinforcing the rod bolts, definitely not above 7200 if even that) and was thinking about making an adapter plate (aluminum or something with more phenolic characteristics) to mount a stock LS2 90mm tb vertically to keep the plenum space as small as possible.
thoughts?
05-16-2006, 06:50 AM
#133
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Originally Posted by GIGAPUNK
with re: to the elbows
Isn't the plenum volume of the stock victor jr. a little big for a stock cube LS1?
Presuming it is (and I am) then wouldn't a elbow just act as a really big spacer (that you don't need), there-by reducing performance?
I'm building a high rpm 346 (still trying to figure out how high I want to spin with only reinforcing the rod bolts, definitely not above 7200 if even that) and was thinking about making an adapter plate (aluminum or something with more phenolic characteristics) to mount a stock LS2 90mm tb vertically to keep the plenum space as small as possible.
thoughts?
Isn't the plenum volume of the stock victor jr. a little big for a stock cube LS1?
Presuming it is (and I am) then wouldn't a elbow just act as a really big spacer (that you don't need), there-by reducing performance?
I'm building a high rpm 346 (still trying to figure out how high I want to spin with only reinforcing the rod bolts, definitely not above 7200 if even that) and was thinking about making an adapter plate (aluminum or something with more phenolic characteristics) to mount a stock LS2 90mm tb vertically to keep the plenum space as small as possible.
thoughts?
05-16-2006, 09:25 AM
#134
Plenum volume uh oh...
Looks like it's time to bust out the burette.
No, now I think you're right, and I was wrong.
First I'll write edelbrock. Let yall know if I get a response.
But I don't think that there is any way there is 5+ liters in there!
Plenum volumes, LS1, LS6, Truck:
5.06 L
5.19 L
4.00L
Looks like it's time to bust out the burette.
No, now I think you're right, and I was wrong.
First I'll write edelbrock. Let yall know if I get a response.
But I don't think that there is any way there is 5+ liters in there!
Plenum volumes, LS1, LS6, Truck:
5.06 L
5.19 L
4.00L
Last edited by GIGAPUNK; 05-16-2006 at 09:36 AM.
05-16-2006, 09:36 AM
#135
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Just a thought but i'd think some of the problem with the small plenum could be solved with an overly large throttle body of the 4150 or even 4500 kind. What do you guys think? What are the 90mm mono blade throttle bodies capable of flowing?
05-16-2006, 02:29 PM
#136
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Originally Posted by DAPSUPRSLO
Just a thought but i'd think some of the problem with the small plenum could be solved with an overly large throttle body of the 4150 or even 4500 kind. What do you guys think? What are the 90mm mono blade throttle bodies capable of flowing?
Well I guess if you made or found a adapter plate for a 4500 style it would add some. But why would you do that?
According to Accufab their TB flow as fallows;
65 MM - 664 CFM
70 MM - 787 CFM
70 MM - 896 CFM (Race version)
75 MM - 924 CFM
75 MM - 1045 CFM (Race version)
80 MM - 1142 CFM
85 MM - 1322 CFM
90 MM - 1369 CFM
105 MM - 1550 CFM
Below is a chart with the CFM requirements, based on displacement (in cubic inches) and RPM. This chart will work for any piston engine with any number of cylinders. After you have determined the CFM for your specific engine combination, you can then choose the corresponding throttle body or carburetor size to best fit that combination.
DISPLACEMENT .6000 RPM .6500 RPM .7000 RPM
280 .. 486 ..527 ..567
290 .. 503 ..545 ..587
300 .. 521 ..564 ..608
310 .. 538 ..583 ..628
320 .. 556 ..602 ..648
330 .. 573 ..621 ..668
340 .. 590 ..639 ..689
350 .. 608 . .658 ..709
360 .. 625 ..677 ..729
370 .. 642 ..696 ..749
380 .. 660 ..715 ..770
390 .. 677 ..734 ..790
400 .. 694 ..752 ..810
410 .. 712 ..771 ..830
420 .. 729 ..771 ..830
430 .. 747 ..809 ..871
This chart should give you a general idea of the amount of air your combination will pump. Engines will pump less air because of the restrictions in the cylinder head or intake manifold design or valve lift, or all three. But, the chart still gives you a ball park starting point.
70 MM - 787 CFM
70 MM - 896 CFM (Race version)
75 MM - 924 CFM
75 MM - 1045 CFM (Race version)
80 MM - 1142 CFM
85 MM - 1322 CFM
90 MM - 1369 CFM
105 MM - 1550 CFM
Below is a chart with the CFM requirements, based on displacement (in cubic inches) and RPM. This chart will work for any piston engine with any number of cylinders. After you have determined the CFM for your specific engine combination, you can then choose the corresponding throttle body or carburetor size to best fit that combination.
DISPLACEMENT .6000 RPM .6500 RPM .7000 RPM
280 .. 486 ..527 ..567
290 .. 503 ..545 ..587
300 .. 521 ..564 ..608
310 .. 538 ..583 ..628
320 .. 556 ..602 ..648
330 .. 573 ..621 ..668
340 .. 590 ..639 ..689
350 .. 608 . .658 ..709
360 .. 625 ..677 ..729
370 .. 642 ..696 ..749
380 .. 660 ..715 ..770
390 .. 677 ..734 ..790
400 .. 694 ..752 ..810
410 .. 712 ..771 ..830
420 .. 729 ..771 ..830
430 .. 747 ..809 ..871
This chart should give you a general idea of the amount of air your combination will pump. Engines will pump less air because of the restrictions in the cylinder head or intake manifold design or valve lift, or all three. But, the chart still gives you a ball park starting point.
Last edited by HALLZ; 05-16-2006 at 02:36 PM.
05-16-2006, 02:32 PM
#137
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Originally Posted by HALLZ
Well I guess if you made or found a adapter plate for a 4500 style it would add some. But why would you do that?
05-16-2006, 02:45 PM
#138
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For sure!
Trial and error or a lot of real world experience. I just would hate to see too many people that don't need them or will only see negative effects start jumping on the band waggon and give something that has it's advantages on the correct setups a bad rap.
But wouldn't you still have a choke point that would negate the larger plenum vs just porting the existing plenum and/or adding a 4150 spacer and a 4150?
If someone actually needs or sees a bennifit from a 4500 na I would love to see or know more about that set up! IMO that would have to be one bad a$$ LSx!!!
Trial and error or a lot of real world experience. I just would hate to see too many people that don't need them or will only see negative effects start jumping on the band waggon and give something that has it's advantages on the correct setups a bad rap.
But wouldn't you still have a choke point that would negate the larger plenum vs just porting the existing plenum and/or adding a 4150 spacer and a 4150?
If someone actually needs or sees a bennifit from a 4500 na I would love to see or know more about that set up! IMO that would have to be one bad a$$ LSx!!!
05-16-2006, 03:42 PM
#140
I'm confused about the plenum volume issue now.
If the LS6 EFI manifold has more than 5L of volume, does that mean that same volume+ is what is ideal for a single plane?
If so, for my spacer I'm just gunna glue two 2L mountain dew bottles together and stick a tb on top of that. Should look pretty cool poking 2 feet above the hood!
If the LS6 EFI manifold has more than 5L of volume, does that mean that same volume+ is what is ideal for a single plane?
If so, for my spacer I'm just gunna glue two 2L mountain dew bottles together and stick a tb on top of that. Should look pretty cool poking 2 feet above the hood!