LTSpeed

The aluminum frame in the Z06 is quite a bit thicker (4.1mm) than the steel one (3.1mm)--just to address the things you mention. That said, I'd expect the aluminum frame to be harder to live with in terms of road damping, noise, and torsion.

ezrollin

chrome moly

AU N EGL

One can debait the qualitys of Alum vs Steel.

Current racing rules dictate steel frames.

Phoenix Performance west of Philly has put a steel roll cage into a new Z with lots of special fabrication. SO it can be done, but so far the car has not been approved to be raced in on this side of the ocean. Maybe in 2007 it will get the nod.

Yes a Few C6Z06.r in europe have alunimum frames with roll cages in that were built by Calloway to be raced in the European FIA GT3, or the Gentlemans class, ie over 50 year old drivers.

The C5-R and the C6.R have stock steel hydofoam core steel frame.

the C6R also has a minimum weight so evern if it was lighter, ballest would need to added to get to the min weight.

Technology makes things stonger and ligher, but race rules take 4-5 or so years to catch up.

Here is a great wed site about the C5R and the C6R histories.
http://palmeter.com/

Npak

could cast the 70 seriese rather hydro form. but would snap in instant. alum is way stonger when bent into a shape rather in a cast shape or just flat. corrosion is a problem w/ all alum in a coastal town. if any of the copper wiring is touching that frame and the salt water air itll start crapping out on u. i say an alum frame would be best to go w/ light and how hard are u gonna beat on the frame that you would crack it open. as to who ever said steel is easier to repair than alum, you havent ever worked w/ alum then. alum is 10 times easier to repair and work with rather than steel, theres no magnatism to **** w/ ur welds when u get near an end of a open root weld so no blow back like steel. you just need to learn how to manipulate the puddles w/ either the wirefeed or tig processes. after learning that its cake.

LTSpeed

I guess you could form 7075 using superplastic forming, but I don't know anyone outside of Lockheed or Boeing that could do it. If that kind of technology were used in cars, you'd have to totally rethink everything because you could do a lot more than duplicate steel structures in aluminum.

treyZ28

bicyclists often debate steel vs aluminum vs titanium as well.

Most racecars use chromoly tube chassis or mild steel. That might be cost and rules though. Flex eats power.

Shooter_Jay

You could weld in an aluminum cage into an aluminum frame I'm sure. I don't know much about welding aluminum though, specifically the large welds it might require.

67RSCamaroVette

iTrader: (63)

welding aluminum removes its heat treatment rating. T6 when welded goes down to about a T3.. I'd think that's why they're hydroformed instead of bent and fabbed. I think it'd be the same problem welding to the frame, i'd bolt a plate, weld the tubing to the plate if i were to install a cage..

Sean Collins

Thanx for posting about the fatigue resistance. I wonder if the z06 cars will ever have any high milage owners to prove that out. That would be my biggest concern with aluminum. After yrs of racing bicycles i can tell you that watching kids crash with broken head tubes on aluminum bicycles is heart breaking enough I wonder if the same thing would happen with the aluminum frame over time.I would personally go steel and use a chromoly cage and focus on reducing uneeded Mass like combining brackets to do mutliple jobs instead of making multiple brackets. there are ways to keep the weight down.I don't think aluminum would be a good cage locating material as its so much softer then steel personally i feel that the bolts for mounting plates would be very prone to ripping out of their locating holes in the frame.

chuntington101

what about aircraft??? they can be in service 30 years!

also on the welding side, i know most (including lotus!!!) bond their chassis not weld them. also you can make a boded chassis stronger thana welded one as they dont "spot" the bonding agent like the do when they spot weld!

thanks Chirs.

Sean Collins

Aircraft are built out of alloys that we do not have acess to and use alot of bonding techniques that we dont have acess to. Riviting is the standard fastening in non bonded applications while bolting is avoided. Still at that airframes are very prone to cracking and a routinely inspected for cracks.

At that in airframes Welding is avoided on a constant bassis. Welding of aluminum is difficult to do properly and at that offers weld penatration issues and the hardness of the material is also highly suspect. If aluminum is welded it must be annealed and reheattreated to reach it proper strength but that involves a good quality welding proces with a very highly skilled and competent welder.Overall Aluminum outside of cast or forged control arms is pretty much a no brainer for chassis parts. You will find however that overall a well planned chassis out of steel can be as light or lighter then aluminum. this is beginging to be very true in the BMX world where the newer OX platinum grades of steel exceed 4130 chromoly for strength and with proper engineering now weight less then aluminum and are 2x as stronger with a fatigue life some 500% longer. WOuld be nice to see TrueTemper get there OX platinum tubbing NHRA and other snacitoning body approved since it is such an awesome material.

http://www.truetemper.com/performance_tubing/ox.asp

LTSpeed

Does anyone really think the Z06 engineers where concerned about fatigue? For crying out loud, the floorboard is balsa wood!!

rubin

the z06 isnt the first aluminum car out there. What about lotus and jag and vw, you think that neither of the car manufacturers had thought about fatigue?

LTSpeed

No, they didn't. Just like the Z06, aluminum is only used in limited production vehicles that will have tons of garage life.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

And all those accidents they used to have due to AL service life esp with fatigue due to air pressure differential...

Cop Car

iTrader: (14)

its simple to weld a steel cage to an aluminum chassis... you bolt steel plates to the aluminum and weld to the plates

chuntington101

haha good one!

but why bother when you could have the smae strength just by bolting the cage in?

speacking of cages, and the strength of ally, has anyone seen Ruf's intregated roll cage???? im not joking you cant tell the thing has a cage at all (it dosen't have door bars or cross brace for the rear hoop)! really well designed and built. maybe GM could offer one as a option???

Chris.

jn1300r

Aluminum

chuntington101

also it would be nice to see bigger manufactures using aluminium honeycombe. much better way to use ally, if only for the bulkheads and such!

thanks Chris.

98_1LE

iTrader: (17)

For a competition road race car, I worry that the aluminum frame would not age well. Not only the repeated stresses from running the car hard on sticky tires, but impacts with FIA curbing, other cars, etc. would stress the aluminum quickly.

But since I am not an engineer, could well be wrong. I doubted an aluminum panhard bar on my F-body, but it works just fine even on big sticky tires and high cornering forces.