EDM Pin Oiling for High RPM?
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
EDM Pin Oiling for High RPM? What do you guys know about EDM Pin Oiling (force fed)?
I'm looking at a 434cid SBC with a dry sump system and vacuum pump that will be turning between 8000-8500. I figure I'll be seeing some oil starvation at the top of the engine and this will require the EDM Pin Oiling option to correct. I know Crower, Carrillo, and Lentz all offer it, though it's really expensive (especially on the I-Beams, H-Beams offer more material and thus it's easier/cheaper). Just looking to see if it works and if there are other things I can do to preserve the engine at those high RPMs?
Also, would the Callies, Crower, or Scat "straight shot oiling" on the crankshaft help? What about larger radii on the main and rod journals?
Thanks!
I'm looking at a 434cid SBC with a dry sump system and vacuum pump that will be turning between 8000-8500. I figure I'll be seeing some oil starvation at the top of the engine and this will require the EDM Pin Oiling option to correct. I know Crower, Carrillo, and Lentz all offer it, though it's really expensive (especially on the I-Beams, H-Beams offer more material and thus it's easier/cheaper). Just looking to see if it works and if there are other things I can do to preserve the engine at those high RPMs?
Also, would the Callies, Crower, or Scat "straight shot oiling" on the crankshaft help? What about larger radii on the main and rod journals?
Thanks!
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: Bloomington, MN
I recommend casidium coated pins and double pin oilers with slots [piston] this combo has proven it's self in the many dry sump engines I have built for world challenge and other endurance engines, pay close attention to the valve train ti valves are a necessity, good luck with your build.
FormerVendor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 6
From: Houston, Tx.
I doubt you'd need anything special as long as you are running regular oil clearances and not 25 inches of vacuum. The rod big end oil clearance is what will throw oil up under the pistons for the most part. They need that stuff in the nascar engines with tons of heat going through them and the constant high rpm along with the tight clearances and the super effective oil pans at removing oil and windage. On a regular engine I doubt you will have problems with the right pins and the right clearances at all.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,979
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From: Upstate NY
Originally Posted by JakeFusion™
I may see 25-30mins at 5000-8000+ RPM. I don't want to kaboom the engine. 
If you are doing the 434 with a large bore, like 4.155 x 4.00 and keep the piston weight under control (light), pin inertia loads won't be all that excessive, but you'll be seeing piston speeds similar to a Cup engine.
What sort of power are you looking at in the 7500-8000 range?
Is this going to run on a highway?
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Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
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From: Pace, FL
Originally Posted by Old SStroker
I'd go for the Diamond Like Carbon (DLC) coated pins. Casidium is just one trade name. Your piston manufaturer can probably provide you with DLC coated pins. Consider running them on the steel rod without bronze bushings. Again, check with your piston manufacturer.
If you are doing the 434 with a large bore, like 4.155 x 4.00 and keep the piston weight under control (light), pin inertia loads won't be all that excessive, but you'll be seeing piston speeds similar to a Cup engine.
What sort of power are you looking at in the 7500-8000 range?
Is this going to run on a highway?
If you are doing the 434 with a large bore, like 4.155 x 4.00 and keep the piston weight under control (light), pin inertia loads won't be all that excessive, but you'll be seeing piston speeds similar to a Cup engine.
What sort of power are you looking at in the 7500-8000 range?
Is this going to run on a highway?
I reckon I can drive fairly well and with a 3000lbs T/A with a rollcage and 850HP should at least make it an interesting One Lap!
Also, I hope to make 800-850HP in that RPM range. Wiseco can build me a 400g piston, but I may go with a slightly heavier rod, say 650g versus a 550g rod to take the abuse.
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Upstate NY
Originally Posted by JakeFusion™
One Lap of America, so it'll run anything and maybe some other magazine stuff. When I build it, I'll be an attention *****.
I reckon I can drive fairly well and with a 3000lbs T/A with a rollcage and 850HP should at least make it an interesting One Lap!
Also, I hope to make 800-850HP in that RPM range. Wiseco can build me a 400g piston, but I may go with a slightly heavier rod, say 650g versus a 550g rod to take the abuse.
I reckon I can drive fairly well and with a 3000lbs T/A with a rollcage and 850HP should at least make it an interesting One Lap!
Also, I hope to make 800-850HP in that RPM range. Wiseco can build me a 400g piston, but I may go with a slightly heavier rod, say 650g versus a 550g rod to take the abuse.
Quite a few production based engines can make 200+ psi BMEP around 7000 even in endurance applications. Most have short strokes or stroke/bore ratios around .80-.77. You are about .96.If I were doing it, I would consider keeping the max r's in the low 7's and build an engine that had the most area under the torque curve from say 4-7200 or where I planned to run it on the track. Think short track Cup engine, but with less rpm. I really can't see geting 850 hp to the ground on the tries you have to run.
Have you considered a dry sump?
My $.02
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
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From: Pace, FL
Dry sump and vacuum pump will be done. I'll be using Dart 11-degree Little Chief heads (flow over 400cfm from .700" to 1.000").
I will be using pump gas. At the tracks you can use race gas, but I have to be able to get there, so I will build it for 91-octane minimum. It'll be fuel injected via a FAST XFI, so I'll probably have a different timing map for 91-octane versus 100-octane.
I will be using pump gas. At the tracks you can use race gas, but I have to be able to get there, so I will build it for 91-octane minimum. It'll be fuel injected via a FAST XFI, so I'll probably have a different timing map for 91-octane versus 100-octane.
If you can finish that race with a 600 hp car, you will do well. I second keeping the revs lower. tranny ratios and final drives will be determined as well, so make sure you keep the combo together with what you pick.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,258
Likes: 146
From: Pace, FL
Originally Posted by Louis
If you can finish that race with a 600 hp car, you will do well. I second keeping the revs lower. tranny ratios and final drives will be determined as well, so make sure you keep the combo together with what you pick.
Sure, I agree 
But remember you are on a street tire too, trying to put that power to the ground will be difficult with 600, much less 800+
Not to be a kill joy, just being realistic My OLoA timeline is still 20-24 months out, and we are shooting for 600 wheel with a few different maps
But remember you are on a street tire too, trying to put that power to the ground will be difficult with 600, much less 800+Not to be a kill joy, just being realistic
My OLoA timeline is still 20-24 months out, and we are shooting for 600 wheel with a few different maps FormerVendor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 6
From: Houston, Tx.
DAMN !!!! You weren't joking about making that power !!!! 
Originally Posted by JakeFusion™
Dry sump and vacuum pump will be done. I'll be using Dart 11-degree Little Chief heads (flow over 400cfm from .700" to 1.000").
I will be using pump gas. At the tracks you can use race gas, but I have to be able to get there, so I will build it for 91-octane minimum. It'll be fuel injected via a FAST XFI, so I'll probably have a different timing map for 91-octane versus 100-octane.
I will be using pump gas. At the tracks you can use race gas, but I have to be able to get there, so I will build it for 91-octane minimum. It'll be fuel injected via a FAST XFI, so I'll probably have a different timing map for 91-octane versus 100-octane.
