C_Rules

iTrader: (7)

I had my cam installed and it was "degreed" using the lining up of the cam and crank gears. It was not done using a piston stop and a degree wheel. My question is how much of a performance loss can this cause. My car with all its mods is only running 13.1 @ 104 with some knock which I cant seem to get rid of. If i chose to degree the cam using the correct methods how much do you guys think im looking at for the engine removal, degreeing and reinstall.

HC_Machinist

You shouldn't see a huge loss, if anything at all. by just lining up the dots this puts the cam in where the manufacturer had it ground. Unless you had a timing set that allowed for offset keys to adjust it you wouldn't be able to adjust it anyway.

C_Rules

iTrader: (7)

so you're saying it is not worht it to have the engine removed and the cam degreed with a a degree wheel.

Steve Bryant

iTrader: (1)

Assuming that your cam isn't off more than 2 to 4 degrees, I doubt that you would gain more than 2 or 3 percent at max power even if it were exactly correct. I'd focus on some tuning to get rid of the KR and making sure that your AFR is correct and not worry too much about the cam phasing at this time. With average manufacturing tolerances and allowing for some timing chain stretch, my guess is that your cam is pretty well right (no more than three degrees off).

Steve

C_Rules

iTrader: (7)

Okay cool i guess i just wanted some reassurance. Im slowly trying yo get to the bottom of that knock retard. I have to go back to the dyno tuner to get my a/f dialed in since last time i went my fuel pump was crapping out. i have had it replaced since then.

HC_Machinist

In my opinion it would not be worth pulling the engine to check. I agree with the above statements, try to get to the bottom of your knock retard and tune it.

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

The only way to see if a cam needs to be degreed is to degree it.

engineermike

I'm pretty sure you can degree the cam without pulling the motor.

RZRSEDGE

iTrader: (21)

Same here.

1989GTA

The problem is you will never know how much power you may have left on the table. It could be zero or a lot. I personally have seen cams up to seven degrees off when installed dot to dot. We are talking alot of horsepower if that is the case.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

I could see a cam being off by 7 degrees affecting power. If it's off by a couple of degrees its a crap shoot. I degree my cams on the dyno to achieve the most power out of my combination possible. I'll advance or retard the cam between pulls until the power drops off, or not. Usually I'll be looking at area under the curve and sometimes a high or low trend. While sometimes the most power is made with the cam intalled straight up, more often than not best power will be made somewhere else. Ive had cams that were recomended for my combination that actually took an advance of 6 degrees to make maximum power. With a recomended nitrous grind I used last year I found another 20 RWHP with the cam retarded 5 degrees. And this was with the cam manf knowing all of the major variables on the engine.

WhosNXT

True, the guy who installed my cam used a wheel with out pulling the motor. He has the picks on his camera, Ill try and get them.

ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

Definatly. Just pull alt,power steering,ac, and radiator to get some room. you can not degree with a stock timing set just check to make sure its ground correctly. If you post a dyno graph we can probably tell you if its degreed right.

ATVracr

iTrader: (5)

Shiz you went to pump gas drag CAMP? is that like band camp?

Spell check your sig.



C-rules ..... do you have an adjustable timing set?
If not then you cant adv. or ret.the cam anyways.

Old SStroker

The closer the cam design (valve events specs) is to optimum for a particular engine, the more important it is to put it in where it belongs. I guess it depends on how important the last few % are to you. If you have to move a cam 5° or 6° from the "design" to get best power or best averages, the design was probably far from optimum.

If you were looking for the last 1% more power (or torque) in a racing engine, and the cam was degreed in 1° off from the design, you probably wouldn't see the increase. Is that important? It could be the difference between winning and losing a race or a championship.

People who buy H/C packages and don't degree in the cam to the design either are leaving power/torque they paid for on the table if the installed ICL is incorrect. If they don't know where the cam is installed then they don't really know if they are getting what they paid for. Ignornance is bliss.

engineermike

Though this may be true in some cases, in most H/C packages, I don't think that much thought or R&D went into deriving the perfect cam spec's.

Mike

WOTFMAN

iTrader: (3)

What you found with retarding the cam is almost always the scenario I see. Too many people are using 112 ICL's and advancing the intake lobe to help in low end grunt. Generally when im degreeing a cam for maximum under curve power, retarding the cam thats been ground like this, 99.9% of the times ive done it made the best power this way.

WOTFMAN

iTrader: (3)

Actually you are wrong. You can use the stock timing sets with offset bushings to advance or retard. Takes a little machining but it can definitely be done.

Old SStroker

For most packages, you are probably correct, and it shows. Some have more thought and R&D into them than others. Caveat emptor.

ShiznityZ28

iTrader: (11)

No you are wrong once you machine and modify the set its not a stock timing set anymore its a modified timing set

At that point the Comp adjustable set is cheeper and easyer whats it like $200