An alternate fuel???
I don't know about the nitro to diesel. You will need spark plugs for the nitro, so if you plan to retrofit an existing engine you will need to add an ignition system. For all I know, you might be able to get nitro to compression ignite, but I've never heard of it.
The propane will make slightly less power than gasoline. It's really hard to beat the energy density of gasoline.
The best fuel for conversion is methanol. You can use the cooling effect of methanol to great effect, and boost your VE quite well. Likewise, methanol has very high octane and can tolerate a lot of ignition timing.
The propane will make slightly less power than gasoline. It's really hard to beat the energy density of gasoline.
The best fuel for conversion is methanol. You can use the cooling effect of methanol to great effect, and boost your VE quite well. Likewise, methanol has very high octane and can tolerate a lot of ignition timing.
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
From: Arizona.
It can be, but at this point you should be replacing lines anyway. My roomate runs E85 on his DSM on some aftermarket lines without any problem. I used it in my beater truck to pass emmisions.
The thing is, Diesel is a very un-refined fuel. Its actually very similar to Jet A. It operates by being able to release its energy without a spark. Something with a very high octane character will not be as easy to run in that type of application. E85 is technically about 105 octane, but its resistance to detonation in the real world (and resistance to detonation is what octane is more or less) is more like a 110 octane fuel or more. So its not easy to blow up with pressure and possibly a glow plug. You might have issues with that.
The thing is, Diesel is a very un-refined fuel. Its actually very similar to Jet A. It operates by being able to release its energy without a spark. Something with a very high octane character will not be as easy to run in that type of application. E85 is technically about 105 octane, but its resistance to detonation in the real world (and resistance to detonation is what octane is more or less) is more like a 110 octane fuel or more. So its not easy to blow up with pressure and possibly a glow plug. You might have issues with that.
TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 4
not sure about running a deisel on other fuels, altough i think some tractors over here used to run on pariffin!
i have heard of people converting diesel engine run spark ignition engines and running meth. the strength of the deisel blocks and the high high dept resistance of pure meth mean they can run BIG boost!
thanks Chris.
i have heard of people converting diesel engine run spark ignition engines and running meth. the strength of the deisel blocks and the high high dept resistance of pure meth mean they can run BIG boost!
thanks Chris.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
Originally Posted by chuntington101
not sure about running a deisel on other fuels, altough i think some tractors over here used to run on pariffin!
i have heard of people converting diesel engine run spark ignition engines and running meth. the strength of the deisel blocks and the high high dept resistance of pure meth mean they can run BIG boost!
thanks Chris.
i have heard of people converting diesel engine run spark ignition engines and running meth. the strength of the deisel blocks and the high high dept resistance of pure meth mean they can run BIG boost!
thanks Chris.
TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by GOaT Cheese
We used to convert the Olds "Y" engine to gas all the time. That bottom end was (is) indestructible. It was outlawed by NHRA though, the conversions that is.
thanks Chris.
Trending Topics
as far as i know, top fuel nitro-methane engines only get a few sparks off before they melt plugs and compression-ignite the rest of the way down the track. i forgot where i heard it but it maked sense at the time. lol
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Methanol has many downsides.
Methanol is hard on steel/metal that isn't stainless.
It also has no lubricating effects, so additives are necessary.
It forms formaldahyde when burned rich (causes insanity, cancer, etc...)
It strips paint.
It absorbs water from the atmosphere quite readily, so keeping it contained is priority #1. That water will rust anything that can rust.
It's easily absorbed through the skin as well, so safe handling is also important.
It requires about 2.3 times the amount of fuel per air compared to gasoline, so everything in the fuel system needs to be bigger and up to snuff.
It's difficult to start when cold. Has very high latent heat of vaporization.
It burns slower, so it needs more timing.
It needs more ignition energy to ignite.
Transient fueling is vastly different.
It's positives include:
More total BTUs (although less BTU's/pound) when injected at the corrected air fuel ratio (about 5.5:1 for max power). This means an engine of the same size can make more power with methanol. It's also forgiving on the rich side, i.e. too rich isn't a big power loss, if your ignition can ignite it.
Has >100 octane. Compression can be raised a few points. The cooling effect it has can also allow more compression. RON 105-115 MON 8-91.
It's cheaper, at least sometimes.
The high H to C ratio (C1 H4 O1 or C-H3-OH compared to ~C8-H18) means less CO2 production.
The cooler burning means less NOx production.
BTW, I'm working on a dual fuel project in China now (among other projects), that has 2 fuel systems (including separate tanks, pumps, and injectors) - one for gasoline, and one for methanol.
Methanol is hard on steel/metal that isn't stainless.
It also has no lubricating effects, so additives are necessary.
It forms formaldahyde when burned rich (causes insanity, cancer, etc...)
It strips paint.
It absorbs water from the atmosphere quite readily, so keeping it contained is priority #1. That water will rust anything that can rust.
It's easily absorbed through the skin as well, so safe handling is also important.
It requires about 2.3 times the amount of fuel per air compared to gasoline, so everything in the fuel system needs to be bigger and up to snuff.
It's difficult to start when cold. Has very high latent heat of vaporization.
It burns slower, so it needs more timing.
It needs more ignition energy to ignite.
Transient fueling is vastly different.
It's positives include:
More total BTUs (although less BTU's/pound) when injected at the corrected air fuel ratio (about 5.5:1 for max power). This means an engine of the same size can make more power with methanol. It's also forgiving on the rich side, i.e. too rich isn't a big power loss, if your ignition can ignite it.
Has >100 octane. Compression can be raised a few points. The cooling effect it has can also allow more compression. RON 105-115 MON 8-91.
It's cheaper, at least sometimes.
The high H to C ratio (C1 H4 O1 or C-H3-OH compared to ~C8-H18) means less CO2 production.
The cooler burning means less NOx production.
BTW, I'm working on a dual fuel project in China now (among other projects), that has 2 fuel systems (including separate tanks, pumps, and injectors) - one for gasoline, and one for methanol.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
Originally Posted by chuntington101
how did you get the comp back down to reasonable levels (or did you run meth)?? how hard is a conversion??
thanks Chris.
thanks Chris.
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
From: Arizona.
Originally Posted by spy2520
as far as i know, top fuel nitro-methane engines only get a few sparks off before they melt plugs and compression-ignite the rest of the way down the track. i forgot where i heard it but it maked sense at the time. lol
IIRC thats accurate. Their fuel systems have a capacity something like a small fire hose. That kind of heat simply eats stuff. The only way to shut them down after the run is to cut the fuel. Valves last one run.....sometimes.
Besides that, the legend (myth?) is that the spark system is something like an arc welder in terms of the kind of spark energy created. Not much is going to survive that for any amount of time in additon to being subjected to the factors above.
Makes me wonder how they controll timing at all.
And methanol is nasty stuff. I worked with it breifly on a University FSAE car. It eats things. It kills people. The Prof we were working with basicly said that he had exposed himself to it over the years to a point where he would not be surprised if he had some mental problems.
Ethanol is good stuff IMO. E85 is the rawsome for forced indcution street cars with a decent fuel system. Yes. I said rawsome. I am bringing it back. For E85.
TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 4
Originally Posted by Sparetire
IIRC thats accurate. Their fuel systems have a capacity something like a small fire hose. That kind of heat simply eats stuff. The only way to shut them down after the run is to cut the fuel. Valves last one run.....sometimes.
Besides that, the legend (myth?) is that the spark system is something like an arc welder in terms of the kind of spark energy created. Not much is going to survive that for any amount of time in additon to being subjected to the factors above.
Makes me wonder how they controll timing at all.
And methanol is nasty stuff. I worked with it breifly on a University FSAE car. It eats things. It kills people. The Prof we were working with basicly said that he had exposed himself to it over the years to a point where he would not be surprised if he had some mental problems.
Ethanol is good stuff IMO. E85 is the rawsome for forced indcution street cars with a decent fuel system. Yes. I said rawsome. I am bringing it back. For E85.
Besides that, the legend (myth?) is that the spark system is something like an arc welder in terms of the kind of spark energy created. Not much is going to survive that for any amount of time in additon to being subjected to the factors above.
Makes me wonder how they controll timing at all.
And methanol is nasty stuff. I worked with it breifly on a University FSAE car. It eats things. It kills people. The Prof we were working with basicly said that he had exposed himself to it over the years to a point where he would not be surprised if he had some mental problems.
Ethanol is good stuff IMO. E85 is the rawsome for forced indcution street cars with a decent fuel system. Yes. I said rawsome. I am bringing it back. For E85.
i mena fro mthe limited amount of top fuel drag racing i have seen, youy allways see them drop at least 2 cylinders by the end of the run. at the magenots look similar in size to the ones run on WW2 Spitfires! lol
can you imagine what they could do with turbos?????
Chris.