Coban

iTrader: (14)

Can anyone tell me or at least point me in the right direction where I can find info on the material used for the LS1 engine block and main bearing caps? I'm also looking for the material used in the bearings.

I need the specific composition if its available.

5.0stang

iTrader: (1)

Along the same lines, I would like to know the billet material that the camshaft was made from. XXXX?

Old SStroker

Why do you guys want to know? I doubt either of you is a metallurgist, so why should it matter to you? I would be more interested in the strength properties of the materials rather than their alloy number. That's how the engine sees the material.

How about doing your homework: You should be able to do a search for the aluminum GM uses in LS blocks. There are only a few alloys and tempers used in OEM aluminum blocks. I suspect they may not be as forthcoming with the cap or cam material. Interestingly enough, if an OEM automaker needs a special alloy for certain mechanical properties, machining characteristics and/or cost considerations, they often have one developed especially for them. When you use many millions of kilos of a material annually, it is no longer a "special".

If you wanted to determine the cam material, you could have a sample mounted, micro polished and look at the structure under a microscope. That and a micro-hardness test would tell a metalurgist if the cam was made from a thru hardening steel or a carburizing grade. Aftermarket billet steel cams are either something like 5150, a direct hardening steel or 8620 which is carburized (case hardened). If you see copper plating between the lobes and journals, it has been case hardened. Look it up is you want to know why the copper is used.

My guess is that GM uses a fairly high carbon but fairly low alloy steel for cams. Anything with nickel in it is very costly. Chrome helps the wear properties, so there is probably some chrome.

If a Chrome-Molybdenum low carbon steel will do the job, you can pretty much take it to the bank that an OEM won't use a Nickel-Chrome-Molybdenum steel. I would use the best steel for tha job if I were making aftermarket, highly stressed, low mass engine parts which cost many times what the OEM or even low-end aftermarket parts cost. In fact, I do.

Jon

5.0stang

iTrader: (1)

Your right, I am not a metallurgist and never will be.

I was just wondering out of curiosity.

3.4camaro

iTrader: (1)

I heard it was a cantaffordium and unobtanium alloy. VERY costly.

Drew04GTO

iTrader: (1)

HAHAHAHA. The only time I think someone needs to know the exact composition is if someone is welding on them, tensile strength, elastic modulus and occasionally coefficient of thermal expansion should be all that's ever really needed for most materials.

Fran D

iTrader: (5)

The block is Al 319-T5 and the main caps are a powdered metal. The exact composition of the metal is proprietary (not sure, but I think Metaldyne is the manufacturer), but it typically will consist of an alloy containing both Al and Fe. The bearings are traditional 3-layer babbit/copper/steel. You can probably get the exact specs from any aftermarket/replacement set.

As for the cam, it's ground from a 5150 steel billet.

Most of the information I've provided is quoted directly from several of the available books on the LS-series engines. Although they often lack information on how to, they are usually very reliable on what is, since that info comes directly from GM's marketing department.

If anyone has anything to add or correct on the above, please chime in.

Coban

iTrader: (14)

Thats what I needed to know.

5.0stang

iTrader: (1)

That is what I needed to know as well.

Steve Bryant

iTrader: (1)

Fran D,
Your information looks fine. However, as you've pointed out, in today's world with search engines and the avilability of information of this type (non-proprietary), it's really easy to find.

I would hope that folks who visit this forum want to learn and grow in their knowledge and engage in a discussion about advanced topics. When they pose questions that are easily researched, I have to wonder.

Steve

Fran D

iTrader: (5)

If I've got the info at my fingertips, I don't mind sharing.

Steve Bryant

iTrader: (1)

Fran D,
I appreciate what you're offering. I've done the same a number of times as have many others here. However, back a few months ago, there were many posts in this forum that should have been posted elsewhere or simply researched by the poster first. Don't get me wrong, I've asked inappropriate questions of the same type in this forum too. However, like Old SStroker is advocating, I think that folks should do at least a little homework first.

This should be a friendly forum. I just want to follow the forum guidelines https://ls1tech.com/forums/advanced-engineering-tech/396223-what-forum-please-read-before-posting.html.

All my best,

Steve

ChucksZ06

iTrader: (9)

You guys have to remember that small children(adults who still are) ask "why" just to ask why. They do not have anything to do or a use for the answer...this forum is full of guys like this and we ought to ignore their questions and maybe some will get the idea and stop being ignorant.

Coban

iTrader: (14)

Well, I wouldn't consider myself a child. Some adults are curious too. I'm in a failure analysis class and no, Im NOT a metallurgist, but my professors are. It was a question we were wondering about because they were advising me on a paper I am writing.

Nothing else needs to be said.

Shock Hawk

By powdered metal, do you mean sintered?

Sintered means powder made of metal is placed in a mold and then heated up, but not to melting temperatures. The metal atoms move around and bond. It creates a solid piece of metal when you are done, but it has lots of tiny pores (air gaps = defects) in it. If you've ever heard of a Sintered Iron Disk clutch, this is what they mean, I think.

Fran D

iTrader: (5)

Yes, sintering is the process used to form the main caps, but the question was for the identification of the material. There are other processes by which powdered metal can be subjected.

5.0stang

iTrader: (1)

I agree.

Old SStroker

Now there's a closed mind.

So your Prof. suggested you go online and accept anything that sounded reasonable for material with no documentation? I think not if you are attending a "real" school. If you were in my class and said you sourced the data from a "post on LS1Tech with no supporting documentaton", you'd not get passing grade. But I'm a hard ***.

FWIW, various sources list the block material for some LS engines as 319-T5 and also 319-T7. Hmmm. Which is it and what does the T5 or T7 mean? Why do you think GM uses 356-T6 for the C5R, etc. race blocks and not 319-T5 or -T7? Ask your Prof. if you can't find/figure it out.

Here is an interesting presentation. It pretty much spoon feeds some very interesting information.

http://www.sfsa.org/tutorials/eng_block/default.htm

BTW, You two guys probably shouldn't ask Bob Lutz for a job after you graduate.


Jon

Coban

iTrader: (14)

Now lets be mature about this. I said nothing else needs to be said so it wouldn't turn into a war here. I don't remember insulting anything that you said. Am I wrong?

I do still appreciate the info, everyone is here to share info. I don't think there is really any need for insults.

FWIW, I go to Texas A&M. Say what you want, but its a great school with a great reputation in the engineering fields.

Drew04GTO

iTrader: (1)

Shot in the dark here since I don't really feel like looking up the properties of each kind of aluminum but is it by chance due to the lower elastic modulus and higher tensile strength of that particular alloy? I wouldn't honestly be too suprised to find out they used a lower temper to have it deform slightly rather than crack.