Which atf fluid is good?
04-07-2011, 11:21 PM
#42
You have it backwards.
Think of using synthetic as using a "slippery" brake pad, like some semi-metallics. It will take more heat but it takes longer to stop, or more apply pressure, or otherwise has to be compensated for. Whereas an organic pad (Type F) will grab harder but doesn't like heat ... etc.
Think of using synthetic as using a "slippery" brake pad, like some semi-metallics. It will take more heat but it takes longer to stop, or more apply pressure, or otherwise has to be compensated for. Whereas an organic pad (Type F) will grab harder but doesn't like heat ... etc.
04-07-2011, 11:36 PM
#43
TECH Resident
I have nothing to gain here!!! I am just trying to help you guys save money by significantly prolonging the life of your trans with substantially reduced wear.
04-07-2011, 11:58 PM
#44
I didn't quote his entire explanation, which you can read, but his point is that while the synthetics have many admirable qualities, their extra slipperiness may increase the time of a WOT 3-4 clutch apply - leading to increased clutch wear. 3-4 clutch pack failure is THE major threat to a 4L60/5/70e that sees a lot of track or WOT action.
04-08-2011, 08:35 AM
#45
I will 100% GUARANTEE you that synthetic is a step up from conventional...probably several steps. I am not sure what the explanation was getting at but it seems misleading. It does not take any more pressure to make your tranny function properly with synthetic than it does with conventional. You have obviously found this out because you are already using synthetic. I have used it in three different vehicles with zero tranny adjustments and it works fine.
I have nothing to gain here!!! I am just trying to help you guys save money by significantly prolonging the life of your trans with substantially reduced wear.
I have nothing to gain here!!! I am just trying to help you guys save money by significantly prolonging the life of your trans with substantially reduced wear.
I see your point about wear, but I don't think you're seeing the point about synthetic effects on clutches (aka FRICTION MATERIALS).
They need friction to hold (mainly to apply properly), synthetic reduces that friction.
I've experienced this with an ATV that I put synthetic in. The engine, trans, and clutch are all oiled with the same oil. The clutch never was the same with the synthetic. I had to flush it out, replace the clutches and go back to conventional. Another apple to oranges comparison for you lol.
04-08-2011, 08:51 AM
#46
TECH Resident
Thanks for clarifying. The primary factor for clutch engagement is pressure not friction. I am not telling anyone anthing new hear...just clarifying. IF (and that is a really big IF) there was any added delay at all the anti-wear properties of synthetic negate the "potential" added wear.
I went back and found this...
Although this seems like a fairly good comparison it really is not completely accurate. A clutch is meant to (fully) apply almost instantly while brakes obviously can not because they would lock the tires up. So, I think (hopefully) you will understand when I say (primarily) brakes work off friction while clutches work off pressure...even though both have the other property taking place (to some extent) at the same time too.
I went back and found this...
Although this seems like a fairly good comparison it really is not completely accurate. A clutch is meant to (fully) apply almost instantly while brakes obviously can not because they would lock the tires up. So, I think (hopefully) you will understand when I say (primarily) brakes work off friction while clutches work off pressure...even though both have the other property taking place (to some extent) at the same time too.
Last edited by Paul57; 04-08-2011 at 09:19 AM.
04-08-2011, 08:54 AM
#47
Last edited by senicalj4579; 04-09-2011 at 06:54 AM.
04-08-2011, 09:19 AM
#48
TECH Resident
I've experienced this with an ATV that I put synthetic in. The engine, trans, and clutch are all oiled with the same oil. The clutch never was the same with the synthetic. I had to flush it out, replace the clutches and go back to conventional. Another apple to oranges comparison for you lol.
04-08-2011, 12:56 PM
#51
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sooo much debate about freaking transmission fluid lol.
after tons of research i found that synthetic fluid is reccommended for daily drives that are putting normal miles on vehicles. this is a long life fluid not a performance fluid. the charactoristics of it make it soo slippery that it does not do well in performance situations where quick hard shifts are needed to reduce friction material wear.
this is why regular non sythetic fluid is recommended for performace/ racing transmissions. if you build enough heat to ruin regular fluid you have pretty much ruind the transmission seals anyways.
never was i told to use synthetic fluid by anyone when it came time to build a trans for my car. i was actually told to use a hydraulic fluid made by a company called Lubrication Engineers. the fluid is called Monolec 7500. its a hydraulic fluid used in a lot of cattapillor heavy equipment. it lowered my trans temps by almost 10 degrees my tuner noticed when i drove the car up to get a retune. and it actually started cooling when it set for only a few minutes. most transmissions would have heated up some before cooling after a long period.
to each his own i guess but im not looking for going 200,000 miles before i change my fluid. ill be changing mine at the end of the racing season like i do evey year.
after tons of research i found that synthetic fluid is reccommended for daily drives that are putting normal miles on vehicles. this is a long life fluid not a performance fluid. the charactoristics of it make it soo slippery that it does not do well in performance situations where quick hard shifts are needed to reduce friction material wear.
this is why regular non sythetic fluid is recommended for performace/ racing transmissions. if you build enough heat to ruin regular fluid you have pretty much ruind the transmission seals anyways.
never was i told to use synthetic fluid by anyone when it came time to build a trans for my car. i was actually told to use a hydraulic fluid made by a company called Lubrication Engineers. the fluid is called Monolec 7500. its a hydraulic fluid used in a lot of cattapillor heavy equipment. it lowered my trans temps by almost 10 degrees my tuner noticed when i drove the car up to get a retune. and it actually started cooling when it set for only a few minutes. most transmissions would have heated up some before cooling after a long period.
to each his own i guess but im not looking for going 200,000 miles before i change my fluid. ill be changing mine at the end of the racing season like i do evey year.
04-08-2011, 01:54 PM
#53
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Prolly something to do with yall lock up clutch. Iz ain't got one so I'm not worried myself. As I said "my" trans builder said dex6, FTI(my converter) gave a thumbs up. So for myself I'm not worried. Best for you to call yank and ask them personally. I don't care about mileage, as 402 said. I'll be changing mine out sometime between nov-feb
04-08-2011, 02:33 PM
#54
I do care about mileage and thats why I asked about Dex 6. I have 210k on my current stock 60E and converter... I drive an average of 35k miles per year. My 2004 truck has 210k already and I have a Yank 'verter on the way and a built trans is to be ordered Monday.
I dont mind changing the fluid once a year, but do want something that will help prolong the trans/ verter life. I have, however, only changed the fluid one time in my truck since Ive had it in those 210k miles.. lol
I dont mind changing the fluid once a year, but do want something that will help prolong the trans/ verter life. I have, however, only changed the fluid one time in my truck since Ive had it in those 210k miles.. lol
04-08-2011, 07:46 PM
#55
TECH Resident
sooo much debate about freaking transmission fluid lol.
after tons of research i found that synthetic fluid is reccommended for daily drives that are putting normal miles on vehicles. this is a long life fluid not a performance fluid. the charactoristics of it make it soo slippery that it does not do well in performance situations where quick hard shifts are needed to reduce friction material wear.
this is why regular non sythetic fluid is recommended for performace/ racing transmissions.
after tons of research i found that synthetic fluid is reccommended for daily drives that are putting normal miles on vehicles. this is a long life fluid not a performance fluid. the charactoristics of it make it soo slippery that it does not do well in performance situations where quick hard shifts are needed to reduce friction material wear.
this is why regular non sythetic fluid is recommended for performace/ racing transmissions.
04-08-2011, 07:51 PM
#56
TECH Resident
I do care about mileage and thats why I asked about Dex 6. I have 210k on my current stock 60E and converter... I drive an average of 35k miles per year. My 2004 truck has 210k already and I have a Yank 'verter on the way and a built trans is to be ordered Monday.
I dont mind changing the fluid once a year, but do want something that will help prolong the trans/ verter life. I have, however, only changed the fluid one time in my truck since Ive had it in those 210k miles.. lol
I dont mind changing the fluid once a year, but do want something that will help prolong the trans/ verter life. I have, however, only changed the fluid one time in my truck since Ive had it in those 210k miles.. lol
Last edited by Paul57; 04-08-2011 at 07:59 PM.
04-08-2011, 07:57 PM
#57
TECH Resident
04-08-2011, 10:35 PM
#58
I don't know if I would recommend putting synthetic in after that many miles?? I have heard a few stories of it put in high mileage vehicles and they either leaked because the seals were worn/dry or it did not act right. Just letting you know that it is ideal to use from new-ish...or at least not over 100k miles (a "ballpark" cut-off on miles).
04-08-2011, 11:54 PM
#59
I don't know if I would recommend putting synthetic in after that many miles?? I have heard a few stories of it put in high mileage vehicles and they either leaked because the seals were worn/dry or it did not act right. Just letting you know that it is ideal to use from new-ish...or at least not over 100k miles (a "ballpark" cut-off on miles).
04-09-2011, 01:08 AM
#60
TECH Resident
It seems like a mechanical failure usually shows up relatively soon. A leak may take a little more time. Hopefully you'll be OK. If you kept clean fluid in it all along then there is a better chance that everything will be fine but having the first new fluid/change in at 94k would make me nervous.