Whats the REAL differences between a 375$ converter and a 700$ one?
06-16-2012, 12:50 PM
#21
you pay extra for the name plate. Lol. It depends on what you want to do with your converter.... Cruise it or beat it.
I tried asking a reasonable question like this and after i deleted the first two posts i stopped responding to my 3rd post and moved on. You probably won't get a good answer here.
I bought revmax and could not be happier.
I tried asking a reasonable question like this and after i deleted the first two posts i stopped responding to my 3rd post and moved on. You probably won't get a good answer here.
I bought revmax and could not be happier.
06-16-2012, 09:49 PM
#27
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i just put one in from edge and im in love its a 4k stall but still drives really nice i was very surprised. plus the lock up on it grabs much better than stock. feels more like a racecar than a slush box that cost me 550 and the customer service was great
06-17-2012, 06:48 AM
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I won't be buying a used one, so that part of the conversation can be dropped. I just havent read any fail threads regarding a "cheap" converter (revmax) for instance, comparably to a yank,ss,ptc, ect. I DD with moderate abuse if the time calls for it but it's also babied as well. I do plan on a cam 2 yrs from now. Nittos and converter first...Just wanted to know if the cheaper ones fail often, or if they hold up as good as any others. FOR DD PURPOSES.. no drag/strip racing and no 500p for a few yrs anyways
06-17-2012, 07:32 AM
#30
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Who the hell are you sending it to for a $45 check?? I checked the cost of cutting and cleaning a converter and all the companies, sponsors included, that I looked up were all at least $125 to check out a converter, unless its under warranty, then you get one free, but that may only apply to the original owner.
06-17-2012, 10:48 AM
#32
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I would have no reservation buying a high dollar converter if the buy said he would send it down to the builder for cleaning/ inspection and you pay the difference if there is any for restall since it's opened up anyway.
06-17-2012, 10:56 AM
#33
I won't be buying a used one, so that part of the conversation can be dropped. I just havent read any fail threads regarding a "cheap" converter (revmax) for instance, comparably to a yank,ss,ptc, ect. I DD with moderate abuse if the time calls for it but it's also babied as well. I do plan on a cam 2 yrs from now. Nittos and converter first...Just wanted to know if the cheaper ones fail often, or if they hold up as good as any others. FOR DD PURPOSES.. no drag/strip racing and no 500p for a few yrs anyways
06-17-2012, 11:06 AM
#34
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By the time it was all said & done, cut & cleaning with shipping the converter there & back.
I think i paid a total of $200.......
had to do that twice.............. because somebodys trans would not stay together.
live & learn.
good luck!
I think i paid a total of $200.......
had to do that twice.............. because somebodys trans would not stay together.
live & learn.
good luck!
06-17-2012, 11:47 AM
#35
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This is a good post and I think we can bring some light to situation: 
There is a ton of incorrect and missing knowledge that over time has accumulated on the internet about 245mm (9.5", 10" converters) and 258mm (10.5" converters) and where they come from and what goes into building them. The information below is FACT, this is not opinion or second hand info!
Any 245mm or 258mm converter REGARDLESS of who builds the converter, whether it be $300 or $1300 is based off a 4cyl or 6 cyl GM converter core. YES, all of you that have an EXPENSIVE converter have a "cavailer" converter core in your car, as do all of you who have a cheap converter. Now, the only parts that are reused from the core are the: Turbine, Impeller and Stator (all of these parts are significantly modified and reinforced), the rest of the converter is thrown away. Now, when a QUALITY converter builder makes you a converter, there are a ton of steps that transform the 245mm or 258mm core into a converter that CAN and WILL as you know hold the power and weight of your F Body.
We have thru extensive long term testing found that a billet cover and apply piston is not needed on cars with less than 500HP NA or shooting less than a 100 shot of NOS, this is our stage 3 converter... Now, if you are 500HP plus, turbo, S/C or shooting a large shot, then yes, a billet cover and piston and larger clutch (our stage 5 unit) are required or you WILL have a failure! This is especially true for the forced induction and NOS applications. The front cover will balloon in these applications which takes the internal bearings off of their centerline and allows the clutch piston to make contact with the clutch mating surface. Both of these issues will cause catastrophic converter failure!
Now, regardless of whether your converter has a billet cover, piston and larger clutch, or it is comparable to say our stage 3. Your converter was in its past life a 4cyl or 6cyl GM 245MM / 258MM FWD converter out of a 4T40E, 4T60, 4T60E or 4T65E transmission. It does not matter who the builder was or how much you paid, all 245mm and 258mm converters started out this way, PERIOD! There is not a converter company in the world currently making new aftermarket impellers or turbines for the 245mm or 258mm converter. The only difference between a billet converter( our stage 5) and say our stage 3 non billet are the: Front cover, clutch piston and clutch, the rest of the converter is exactly the same as a non billet converter!
Our shop is always open to any LS1TECH members and you are all welcome to stop by ANYTIME. We would be happy to show you the process from start to finish and give you a tour of our facility(some of you already have)! For those of you who cannot, here is how a converter is made, step by step:
Step 1. Converter core is split open, parts are fully washed, and parts not needed are discarded.
Step 2. (This separates the good converters from the rest) The turbine, and impeller are sent to a furnace brazer which adds copper material to strengthen the bond between the fins and the housing. After this is done, some converters will require that the fins be TIG stitch welded on the turbine and impeller.
Step 3. The turbine is put on a CNC lathe and the original turbine hub splines are removed. Then the mating surface is machined perfectly flat.
Step 4. The impeller is put on a CNC lathe and the original impeller hub is removed. Then the mating surface is machined perfectly flat.
Step 5. The 245mm stator is gutted and its internals are replaced with stronger components.
Step 6. A kevlar, carbon or woven carbon fiber clutch is bonded to the clutch piston. ( on our stage 5 units and other converters, this is a larger billet item with the lining already bonded)
Step 7. New turbines splines are welded into the turbine to mate up to the customers transmission.
Step 8. A new impeller hub is welded onto the impeller to mate up to the customers transmission.
Step 9. Impeller, turbines and stator choices are made and internal clearances are set to match the STR and stall desired by the customer. New Torrington bearings are installed, and new seals are inserted.
Step 10. Converter endplay is set by the technician, and is then seam welded together on a robotic welder.
Step 11. Runout is measured after welding.
Step 12. Converter is leak tested at 120PSI to make sure the welds penetrated and sealed.
Step 13. Computerized balancing, balances the converter to insure that it is vibration free.
Step 14. Paint
Step 15. The converter is shipped!
There is a ton of incorrect and missing knowledge that over time has accumulated on the internet about 245mm (9.5", 10" converters) and 258mm (10.5" converters) and where they come from and what goes into building them. The information below is FACT, this is not opinion or second hand info!
Any 245mm or 258mm converter REGARDLESS of who builds the converter, whether it be $300 or $1300 is based off a 4cyl or 6 cyl GM converter core. YES, all of you that have an EXPENSIVE converter have a "cavailer" converter core in your car, as do all of you who have a cheap converter. Now, the only parts that are reused from the core are the: Turbine, Impeller and Stator (all of these parts are significantly modified and reinforced), the rest of the converter is thrown away. Now, when a QUALITY converter builder makes you a converter, there are a ton of steps that transform the 245mm or 258mm core into a converter that CAN and WILL as you know hold the power and weight of your F Body.
We have thru extensive long term testing found that a billet cover and apply piston is not needed on cars with less than 500HP NA or shooting less than a 100 shot of NOS, this is our stage 3 converter... Now, if you are 500HP plus, turbo, S/C or shooting a large shot, then yes, a billet cover and piston and larger clutch (our stage 5 unit) are required or you WILL have a failure! This is especially true for the forced induction and NOS applications. The front cover will balloon in these applications which takes the internal bearings off of their centerline and allows the clutch piston to make contact with the clutch mating surface. Both of these issues will cause catastrophic converter failure!
Now, regardless of whether your converter has a billet cover, piston and larger clutch, or it is comparable to say our stage 3. Your converter was in its past life a 4cyl or 6cyl GM 245MM / 258MM FWD converter out of a 4T40E, 4T60, 4T60E or 4T65E transmission. It does not matter who the builder was or how much you paid, all 245mm and 258mm converters started out this way, PERIOD! There is not a converter company in the world currently making new aftermarket impellers or turbines for the 245mm or 258mm converter. The only difference between a billet converter( our stage 5) and say our stage 3 non billet are the: Front cover, clutch piston and clutch, the rest of the converter is exactly the same as a non billet converter!
Our shop is always open to any LS1TECH members and you are all welcome to stop by ANYTIME. We would be happy to show you the process from start to finish and give you a tour of our facility(some of you already have)! For those of you who cannot, here is how a converter is made, step by step:
Step 1. Converter core is split open, parts are fully washed, and parts not needed are discarded.
Step 2. (This separates the good converters from the rest) The turbine, and impeller are sent to a furnace brazer which adds copper material to strengthen the bond between the fins and the housing. After this is done, some converters will require that the fins be TIG stitch welded on the turbine and impeller.
Step 3. The turbine is put on a CNC lathe and the original turbine hub splines are removed. Then the mating surface is machined perfectly flat.
Step 4. The impeller is put on a CNC lathe and the original impeller hub is removed. Then the mating surface is machined perfectly flat.
Step 5. The 245mm stator is gutted and its internals are replaced with stronger components.
Step 6. A kevlar, carbon or woven carbon fiber clutch is bonded to the clutch piston. ( on our stage 5 units and other converters, this is a larger billet item with the lining already bonded)
Step 7. New turbines splines are welded into the turbine to mate up to the customers transmission.
Step 8. A new impeller hub is welded onto the impeller to mate up to the customers transmission.
Step 9. Impeller, turbines and stator choices are made and internal clearances are set to match the STR and stall desired by the customer. New Torrington bearings are installed, and new seals are inserted.
Step 10. Converter endplay is set by the technician, and is then seam welded together on a robotic welder.
Step 11. Runout is measured after welding.
Step 12. Converter is leak tested at 120PSI to make sure the welds penetrated and sealed.
Step 13. Computerized balancing, balances the converter to insure that it is vibration free.
Step 14. Paint
Step 15. The converter is shipped!
06-17-2012, 11:51 AM
#36
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A little bit more info to aleve your anxiety about reusing a core from a smaller vehicle.
Outlaw cars (4-4.6 1/8 mile cars) run either a 245mm, 258mm or 265mm converter. The 265mm cores come from Cadillac STS and DTS's....
Pro Street, Super Street and some outlaw cars run 8" converters. Until 3 years ago all 8" converters came from OPEL cores from the 1960's and 1970's..... These units can be pushed to 2000HP.
Our turbo mustang dyno's at just over 1400HP and it runs a 245MM converter (billet cover of course)!
Outlaw cars (4-4.6 1/8 mile cars) run either a 245mm, 258mm or 265mm converter. The 265mm cores come from Cadillac STS and DTS's....
Pro Street, Super Street and some outlaw cars run 8" converters. Until 3 years ago all 8" converters came from OPEL cores from the 1960's and 1970's..... These units can be pushed to 2000HP.
Our turbo mustang dyno's at just over 1400HP and it runs a 245MM converter (billet cover of course)!
06-17-2012, 05:19 PM
#37
A little bit more info to aleve your anxiety about reusing a core from a smaller vehicle.
Outlaw cars (4-4.6 1/8 mile cars) run either a 245mm, 258mm or 265mm converter. The 265mm cores come from Cadillac STS and DTS's....
Pro Street, Super Street and some outlaw cars run 8" converters. Until 3 years ago all 8" converters came from OPEL cores from the 1960's and 1970's..... These units can be pushed to 2000HP.
Our turbo mustang dyno's at just over 1400HP and it runs a 245MM converter (billet cover of course)!
Outlaw cars (4-4.6 1/8 mile cars) run either a 245mm, 258mm or 265mm converter. The 265mm cores come from Cadillac STS and DTS's....
Pro Street, Super Street and some outlaw cars run 8" converters. Until 3 years ago all 8" converters came from OPEL cores from the 1960's and 1970's..... These units can be pushed to 2000HP.
Our turbo mustang dyno's at just over 1400HP and it runs a 245MM converter (billet cover of course)!
06-17-2012, 09:30 PM
#39
A "cheap" converter. i.e. a non-billet cover converter with a "V6" lockup disc works fine in the lower powered cars as RevMax stated and as I've stated here before and gotten slammed for.
The market has been conditioned by advertising to lead the consumer to believe they must have a billet cover unit.
There are two ways to look at this.
From a consumer point of view and from a business point of view.
A consumer will often try to save money and may want to buy a product that is broderline or not adequate for their needs because it is half the cost. On the other hand they may be willing to spend twice as much for peace of mind on something totally unnecessary for their use.
A business will want to overbuild their product so they can protect their product, reputation, and reduce comebacks.
We typically build transmissions for higher end stuff. I would say 85% of what we do is 800+ HP. So by default we sell mostly billet converters.
However the milder daily driven combos that make ~400 HP will do well with a non-billet converter.
An informed customer will know that they can't WOT lockup and they need to tune the PWM out as well as only lockup under light throttle cruise conditions. The converter will last YEARS under these conditions.
If the customer can get by with a budget deal but can afford the billet, go for the billet. It gives you room to grow later.
We pay $125 for a cut and clean. Elite doesn't see the invoices so I guess he thinks that sh*t is cheap!
The market has been conditioned by advertising to lead the consumer to believe they must have a billet cover unit.
There are two ways to look at this.
From a consumer point of view and from a business point of view.
A consumer will often try to save money and may want to buy a product that is broderline or not adequate for their needs because it is half the cost. On the other hand they may be willing to spend twice as much for peace of mind on something totally unnecessary for their use.
A business will want to overbuild their product so they can protect their product, reputation, and reduce comebacks.
We typically build transmissions for higher end stuff. I would say 85% of what we do is 800+ HP. So by default we sell mostly billet converters.
However the milder daily driven combos that make ~400 HP will do well with a non-billet converter.
An informed customer will know that they can't WOT lockup and they need to tune the PWM out as well as only lockup under light throttle cruise conditions. The converter will last YEARS under these conditions.
If the customer can get by with a budget deal but can afford the billet, go for the billet. It gives you room to grow later.
We pay $125 for a cut and clean. Elite doesn't see the invoices so I guess he thinks that sh*t is cheap!
06-17-2012, 11:03 PM
#40
For all those who posted after me, I'm just noticing what I typed, I meant to type $145. It was the price I assumed most people would pay a shop to do (give or take a few bucks depending on the shop). Now I feel like an idiot, but I will point out that the math I used was meant for assuming $145 or so off, so that should make a little more sense.
700 for new, 450 for used, spend 145 for clean, pay 600 all told, save 100 (or more)
700 for new, 450 for used, spend 145 for clean, pay 600 all told, save 100 (or more)