HELP unsure what trans i should get.
07-20-2012, 12:04 PM
#1
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HELP unsure what trans i should get. i have a 2000 ws6 A4 (4l60e) and i have already rebuilt it once and blew it up in 11k miles. i have full exhaust headers back, ls6 intake, and a lid. now my question is what tans should i should get. i also want to do a stall and idk what stall would be best for me. i want to do head, cam, 3:73 gears, shift kit by next summer and possibly some other little things along the way. i would also like to supercharge it in a couple years so whatever trans i get i would want it to be able to take the power. please help me out and thank you so much for your time.
07-21-2012, 09:55 AM
#4
I have the Jakes Performance 4l80e rated at 1000 HP,, I love knowing it can take what I throw at it, and be just fine,, I have had it at the track on the spray in full race gear, and had it on the interstate,, wouldnt change a thing,, the only complaint I have is its a heavy BI*&# I know I put it in..
07-21-2012, 11:09 AM
#5
I have the Jakes Performance 4l80e rated at 1000 HP,, I love knowing it can take what I throw at it, and be just fine,, I have had it at the track on the spray in full race gear, and had it on the interstate,, wouldnt change a thing,, the only complaint I have is its a heavy BI*&# I know I put it in..
07-21-2012, 06:37 PM
#6
A 4L80E dry vs a 4L60E dry is roughly a 35 pound difference. Compare that to a 4L80E with a new 9.5" converter vs a 4L60E with the stock converter and you're not too far off from stock if you're worried about adding a ton of weight to your car.
For what you want to do, I highly suggest looking into a 4L80E, it's much more suitable for high horsepower applications than a 4L60E, especially supercharging. Look into Jake's Performance
For what you want to do, I highly suggest looking into a 4L80E, it's much more suitable for high horsepower applications than a 4L60E, especially supercharging. Look into Jake's Performance
07-22-2012, 11:19 PM
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Well it looks like ill be looking into the 4l80e but i was also wondering what stall to get and also what shift kit to go along with it. I still want it streetable but at the same time when it comes down to it i want to be able to take off like a rocket. Thanks to everyone that replied youve been a big help and any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated((:
Possibly a transbrake..??
Possibly a transbrake..??
Last edited by WalkingMustangs; 07-22-2012 at 11:56 PM.
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07-23-2012, 08:20 AM
#8
I would recommend one of our Level 5 4L60e builds for what you are wanting to do. They are good for 600rwhp/tq. I have MANY supercharged F-bodies and Corvette's out there with our Level 5 and 6 4L60es in them living long and happy lives. There is no reason to go TH400 or 4L80e with the power goals you have.
07-23-2012, 10:07 AM
#9
I would recommend one of our Level 5 4L60e builds for what you are wanting to do. They are good for 600rwhp/tq. I have MANY supercharged F-bodies and Corvette's out there with our Level 5 and 6 4L60es in them living long and happy lives. There is no reason to go TH400 or 4L80e with the power goals you have.
07-23-2012, 06:12 PM
#12
I have a 4L60E transbrake we're testing now, however I am not a fan of the 4L60 series trans in a FI application.
We have customers call in pretty often with scattered "built" 4L60Es from some of the most reputable builders in the country.
Big dollar units that didn't make one pass. Blown up planets, etc.
We have customers call in pretty often with scattered "built" 4L60Es from some of the most reputable builders in the country.
Big dollar units that didn't make one pass. Blown up planets, etc.
07-23-2012, 06:43 PM
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Im highly considering the Stage 2 4l80e from jakes automotive. Im a little confuse on what the price would be though. And also will it bolt right up to my motor?
07-23-2012, 08:35 PM
#14
I have a 4L60E transbrake we're testing now, however I am not a fan of the 4L60 series trans in a FI application.
We have customers call in pretty often with scattered "built" 4L60Es from some of the most reputable builders in the country.
Big dollar units that didn't make one pass. Blown up planets, etc.
We have customers call in pretty often with scattered "built" 4L60Es from some of the most reputable builders in the country.
Big dollar units that didn't make one pass. Blown up planets, etc.
ago and will be hitting the track hunting for 8s this weekend) and we haven't killed it with well over 50 ***** out passes and many more 60ft hits. It is still running a stock set of GM 5 pinion planets and the standard sleeved input drum with a billet input shaft. Please direct me to all the "scattered" planets you have seen. Were these good quality planets or junk chinese crap?
Our "big dollar" units (which aren't any more expensive than putting 4L80e in the car onceyou buy all the associated parts) have been hammered with insain amounts of power for YEARS without failure. Look at Arun Ahuja, Don Dixon, Rob Farley and countless otheres that have been running our 4L60e transmissions for years on end with zero issues. Rob Farley has logged LITERALLY thousands of passes in his C5 corvette with zero transmission issues. He has called us wanting to know when he should send it back for a refresh. We tell him to leave it alone and call us if it has an issue. We never get that call.
I hate to say it publicly because I don't really want everyone pushing their parts as hard as Arun Ahuja did. But Arun ran 9.0s@155+mph for 3 years on one of our Level 5 4L60e transmissions and NEVER broke it. We only upgraded it to a Level 7 because he planned to push the car with more power.
The days of the weak, limp wristed, unreliable 4L60e are over.
Last edited by Jeremy@RPMTransmissions; 07-23-2012 at 09:14 PM.
07-23-2012, 10:56 PM
#15
I don't want to get into a pissing match and mud up this guys thread. But you keep using the term "scattered". I have been with RPM for 4 years and I have yet to see a "scattered" 4L60e in the thousands of units we have put out the door. The worst thing I have seen it a broken sun shell (which was defective) and broken input dums from behind 1200+hp cars. (EDIT-Worst Ive seen besides broken stock output shafts which were overpowered in AWD Trailblazers and 4x4 trucks) We have a 4L60e in our 4000lb 2010 camaro making 1000hp (it ran 9.33@153mph 2 weeks
ago and will be hitting the track hunting for 8s this weekend) and we haven't killed it with well over 50 ***** out passes and many more 60ft hits. It is still running a stock set of GM 5 pinion planets and the standard sleeved input drum with a billet input shaft. Please direct me to all the "scattered" planets you have seen. Were these good quality planets or junk chinese crap?
Our "big dollar" units (which aren't any more expensive than putting 4L80e in the car onceyou buy all the associated parts) have been hammered with insain amounts of power for YEARS without failure. Look at Arun Ahuja, Don Dixon, Rob Farley and countless otheres that have been running our 4L60e transmissions for years on end with zero issues. Rob Farley has logged LITERALLY thousands of passes in his C5 corvette with zero transmission issues. He has called us wanting to know when he should send it back for a refresh. We tell him to leave it alone and call us if it has an issue. We never get that call.
I hate to say it publicly because I don't really want everyone pushing their parts as hard as Arun Ahuja did. But Arun ran 9.0s@155+mph for 3 years on one of our Level 5 4L60e transmissions and NEVER broke it. We only upgraded it to a Level 7 because he planned to push the car with more power.
The days of the weak, limp wristed, unreliable 4L60e are over.
ago and will be hitting the track hunting for 8s this weekend) and we haven't killed it with well over 50 ***** out passes and many more 60ft hits. It is still running a stock set of GM 5 pinion planets and the standard sleeved input drum with a billet input shaft. Please direct me to all the "scattered" planets you have seen. Were these good quality planets or junk chinese crap?
Our "big dollar" units (which aren't any more expensive than putting 4L80e in the car onceyou buy all the associated parts) have been hammered with insain amounts of power for YEARS without failure. Look at Arun Ahuja, Don Dixon, Rob Farley and countless otheres that have been running our 4L60e transmissions for years on end with zero issues. Rob Farley has logged LITERALLY thousands of passes in his C5 corvette with zero transmission issues. He has called us wanting to know when he should send it back for a refresh. We tell him to leave it alone and call us if it has an issue. We never get that call.
I hate to say it publicly because I don't really want everyone pushing their parts as hard as Arun Ahuja did. But Arun ran 9.0s@155+mph for 3 years on one of our Level 5 4L60e transmissions and NEVER broke it. We only upgraded it to a Level 7 because he planned to push the car with more power.
The days of the weak, limp wristed, unreliable 4L60e are over.
If you want to discuss it more in depth, I would suggest you call me. We can "compare notes", I don't think you want me doing it on an open forum.
07-23-2012, 11:53 PM
#17
I consider you guys to be at the top of the food chain as far as performance transmission companies go. Hughes, RPM, ATI, and a few others. All quality companies that put out a good product.
I also know you guys are pretty successful with the 4L60E. However I feel the 4L60E gets "over-rated" in some cases.
A 4L60E in a 9 second combo is a ticking time bomb IMO. Even a TH400/Powerglide/4L80E is a maintenance item.
One customer's name was R. Lotton. It took a 4L80E to make his car successful. Most of my exchange with him was via phone so I don't have all the "notes" but IIRC he went through 3 of your 4L60E's. Pretty serious combo for sure (1000 HP).
Another example was an overseas (Europe) customer who stated via email:
Hi I have 2001 Camaro w 403 Lingenfelter motor 500+ flywheel hp. It had a RPM Level 5 4l60E that broke output shaft and planetary in my first race.
I've had some (not yours) 4L60E and 4L65E's through here that had broken planets.
I've had customers call (very frustrated) NUMEROUS times with transmissions built by some of the better known companies that catastrophically failed within a week/month. Sometimes they won't name the company, sometimes they just claim a sponsor here (at that time could have been one of several companies).
We all have stuff break (even 4L80E's) but in my opinion certain applications warrant the brute strength of a 4L80E, others do just fine with a 4L60E. We just try to make sure that we put the customer in what best fits their needs AND future goals.
As far as expense of installing a 4L80E,
In a 4th Gen (or 5th Gen) F-body, we haven't seen it to be much more expensive to go to a 4L80E than a 4L60E when you get over the 550-600 HP level.
A 4L60E that will reliably live at that level gets pretty spendy. The 4L80E required $200 crossmember, $100 yoke, possibly flexplate, conversion harness, and tuning isn't much if any more expensive. Many of these parts are getting upgraded anyway for SFI certification or just the need of the faster combo.
One rebuild of a 4L60E and the 4L80E became a bargain even if it was more cost up front.
07-24-2012, 08:15 AM
#18
There is a lot to address so I'll break it down in sections.
I appreciate the fact that you hold us the same high esteem as Hughs, ATI and others. We feel the same about your opperation.
I still believe the 4L60e is an under-rated transmission. There is so much negative stigma wrapped around them because of poor builders and low quality parts.
At a high power level any transmission is gonna be a maintenance item but a "time bomb" is a little bit of an exaggeration.
You should know as well as anyone that there are some customers that you just can't help. Lotton's problem was not his transmission. It was a case of a poor tuner that wouldn't do any diagnostics at all for us and the owner refused to take the car anywhere else to help himself. His car would smoke the 3-4 clutches out of it within 20 miles of normal driving. He never even went WOT with the car. We fixed it 3 times and his tuner didn't care to put a pressure gauge on the trans check line pressure and adjust the tuning accordingly.
Unfortunitely this was never brought to our attention that I am aware of. 500+ flywheel hp is a pretty lose discription. If it was over 600hp then it probably needed a Level 6 with a billet output shaft. No matter how hard you try, you can't force the customer to buy the correct unit sometimes.
Unfortunitely there are a lot of shops out there that shouldn't be building transmissions for high performance applications. But they do anyway and give the 4L60e a bad reputation by using low quality products or lax building practices.
This is true. No matter how hard you try, sometimes things fail. But for a 500-600hp F-body a 4L80e is overkill. When a customers needs and goals fit into a much simpler installation there is no need to overkill them with modifications to the car that aren't needed with a 4L60e.
In an F-body or C5/C6 our $2,395.00 4L60e will handle 600rwhp I cannot justify the customer spending $3,000.00 on a 4L80e and another $1,000.00 getting it into the car. In a 5th Gen that is a different story. We run a 4L60e in our 5th Gen drag car to test its limits. If you don't test your own products and break them, then you won't know how to make them better. There is no way I would recommend that to a customer with the same application.
Moral of the story I guess is, put the right trans in for the application, tune it properly and you won't need a rebuild.
At a high power level any transmission is gonna be a maintenance item but a "time bomb" is a little bit of an exaggeration.
I've had some (not yours) 4L60E and 4L65E's through here that had broken planets.
I've had customers call (very frustrated) NUMEROUS times with transmissions built by some of the better known companies that catastrophically failed within a week/month. Sometimes they won't name the company, sometimes they just claim a sponsor here (at that time could have been one of several companies).
I've had customers call (very frustrated) NUMEROUS times with transmissions built by some of the better known companies that catastrophically failed within a week/month. Sometimes they won't name the company, sometimes they just claim a sponsor here (at that time could have been one of several companies).
As far as expense of installing a 4L80E,
In a 4th Gen (or 5th Gen) F-body, we haven't seen it to be much more expensive to go to a 4L80E than a 4L60E when you get over the 550-600 HP level.
A 4L60E that will reliably live at that level gets pretty spendy. The 4L80E required $200 crossmember, $100 yoke, possibly flexplate, conversion harness, and tuning isn't much if any more expensive. Many of these parts are getting upgraded anyway for SFI certification or just the need of the faster combo.
One rebuild of a 4L60E and the 4L80E became a bargain even if it was more cost up front.
In a 4th Gen (or 5th Gen) F-body, we haven't seen it to be much more expensive to go to a 4L80E than a 4L60E when you get over the 550-600 HP level.
A 4L60E that will reliably live at that level gets pretty spendy. The 4L80E required $200 crossmember, $100 yoke, possibly flexplate, conversion harness, and tuning isn't much if any more expensive. Many of these parts are getting upgraded anyway for SFI certification or just the need of the faster combo.
One rebuild of a 4L60E and the 4L80E became a bargain even if it was more cost up front.
Moral of the story I guess is, put the right trans in for the application, tune it properly and you won't need a rebuild.
07-26-2012, 09:29 PM
#19
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this is a topic that will never end lol. all i can say is i have bn very unhappy with both my 4l60 an wish i would have went to a 80 or a better builder. the cost and time in the 80 swap is what made me pick going back to a 60 but the time i tryed to save bit me in the butt because i have played excange trying to get a 60 to live/...
