PTC Converters
03-22-2013, 11:24 PM
#21
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[QUOTE=Jake's Performance;17252724]I've been stirred up about converters over the last two days.
One thing I want to add to this thread. Give them time to call you back. This is the busiest time of year in this industry. It can be difficult to talk with customers and get
One thing I want to add to this thread. Give them time to call you back. This is the busiest time of year in this industry. It can be difficult to talk with customers and get
Last edited by Gabe02ws6; 03-22-2013 at 11:35 PM.
03-22-2013, 11:41 PM
#22
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Question was asked to "lemons12" I'm pretty sure your going to have people asking lots of questions when your putting order sponsor on blast when in the first place nothing was wrong with the converter. If I can remember there U had a customer with a bad tranny not bad stall. Lime Chris mentioned the pictures u posted are not showing anything bad with the converter.
03-22-2013, 11:43 PM
#23
I have no experience with PTC so I can't speak for them personally. I will say have not heard anything bad about them. I do have a ton of experience with Circle D Converters and will say they are one of the best converters available and the customer service is second to none.
Some companies have spent a ton of hours and $$ on converter R&D to provide a quality product for the end user and Circle D Specialties is on the fore front. If you are local be sure to swing by CDS. Chris will give you a "Converter 101" tour. It's pretty amazing actually.
We are fortunate to have a variety of sponsored converter providers here on LS1Tech. Some will bash for self recongnition and many will just offer their product and let the product prove itself.
Some companies have spent a ton of hours and $$ on converter R&D to provide a quality product for the end user and Circle D Specialties is on the fore front. If you are local be sure to swing by CDS. Chris will give you a "Converter 101" tour. It's pretty amazing actually.
We are fortunate to have a variety of sponsored converter providers here on LS1Tech. Some will bash for self recongnition and many will just offer their product and let the product prove itself.
03-23-2013, 12:11 AM
#24
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I have no experience with PTC so I can't speak for them personally. I will say have not heard anything bad about them. I do have a ton of experience with Circle D Converters and will say they are one of the best converters available and the customer service is second to none.
Some companies have spent a ton of hours and $$ on converter R&D to provide a quality product for the end user and Circle D Specialties is on the fore front. If you are local be sure to swing by CDS. Chris will give you a "Converter 101" tour. It's pretty amazing actually.
We are fortunate to have a variety of sponsored converter providers here on LS1Tech. Some will bash for self recongnition and many will just offer their product and let the product prove itself.
Some companies have spent a ton of hours and $$ on converter R&D to provide a quality product for the end user and Circle D Specialties is on the fore front. If you are local be sure to swing by CDS. Chris will give you a "Converter 101" tour. It's pretty amazing actually.
We are fortunate to have a variety of sponsored converter providers here on LS1Tech. Some will bash for self recongnition and many will just offer their product and let the product prove itself.
03-23-2013, 12:12 AM
#25
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I have no experience with PTC so I can't speak for them personally. I will say have not heard anything bad about them. I do have a ton of experience with Circle D Converters and will say they are one of the best converters available and the customer service is second to none.
Some companies have spent a ton of hours and $$ on converter R&D to provide a quality product for the end user and Circle D Specialties is on the fore front. If you are local be sure to swing by CDS. Chris will give you a "Converter 101" tour. It's pretty amazing actually.
We are fortunate to have a variety of sponsored converter providers here on LS1Tech. Some will bash for self recongnition and many will just offer their product and let the product prove itself.
Some companies have spent a ton of hours and $$ on converter R&D to provide a quality product for the end user and Circle D Specialties is on the fore front. If you are local be sure to swing by CDS. Chris will give you a "Converter 101" tour. It's pretty amazing actually.
We are fortunate to have a variety of sponsored converter providers here on LS1Tech. Some will bash for self recongnition and many will just offer their product and let the product prove itself.
03-23-2013, 12:17 AM
#26
Oh well thanks for the help. I did call them today left them my number and info but didn't get back to me.
This car is pretty much going to be a street/street car.
I ran a circle d with my 4l60 and it was good. There couple guys who run yanks around here. How u do compare this $450 stall to a yank converter?
This car is pretty much going to be a street/street car.
I ran a circle d with my 4l60 and it was good. There couple guys who run yanks around here. How u do compare this $450 stall to a yank converter?
As far as performance.. PTC hit harder than Yank and match their efficiency.
I have always said you get what you pay for with Yank, nothing more and nothing less. You KNOW what you are getting performance wise with them. You are never let down by their performance. Every once in a while a Yank car will really impress me but on average, they cut the 60' and mph they are "supposed" to.
I like a hard hitting converter... It needs to hold it together on the big end too though. Precision Industries hits hard as hell but lacks in the efficiency usually.
03-23-2013, 12:25 AM
#27
LOL. Yeah we put the car on the bumper swapping from the 4C to the 5C shooting for a good wheels up pic.......well that got way out of hand real quick. My bad though. I backed off on the shocks more so than I should have. It was a fun ride, but never plan to do that ever again.
The 5C hits real hard and is quite streetable on the street tire when the testoterone isn't overflowing, otherwise it's a tire fryer on the street. That 5C will 60ft its *** off. You just can not hurt the CDS converters. I have tried.lol.
The 5C hits real hard and is quite streetable on the street tire when the testoterone isn't overflowing, otherwise it's a tire fryer on the street. That 5C will 60ft its *** off. You just can not hurt the CDS converters. I have tried.lol.
03-23-2013, 12:32 AM
#28
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As far as which one will be more reliable at high HP levels.. Obviously the billet.
As far as performance.. PTC hit harder than Yank and match their efficiency.
I have always said you get what you pay for with Yank, nothing more and nothing less. You KNOW what you are getting performance wise with them. You are never let down by their performance. Every once in a while a Yank car will really impress me but on average, they cut the 60' and mph they are "supposed" to.
I like a hard hitting converter... It needs to hold it together on the big end too though. Precision Industries hits hard as hell but lacks in the efficiency usually.
As far as performance.. PTC hit harder than Yank and match their efficiency.
I have always said you get what you pay for with Yank, nothing more and nothing less. You KNOW what you are getting performance wise with them. You are never let down by their performance. Every once in a while a Yank car will really impress me but on average, they cut the 60' and mph they are "supposed" to.
I like a hard hitting converter... It needs to hold it together on the big end too though. Precision Industries hits hard as hell but lacks in the efficiency usually.
03-23-2013, 12:33 AM
#29
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LOL. Yeah we put the car on the bumper swapping from the 4C to the 5C shooting for a good wheels up pic.......well that got way out of hand real quick. My bad though. I backed off on the shocks more so than I should have. It was a fun ride, but never plan to do that ever again.
The 5C hits real hard and is quite streetable on the street tire when the testoterone isn't overflowing, otherwise it's a tire fryer on the street. That 5C will 60ft its *** off. You just can not hurt the CDS converters. I have tried.lol.
The 5C hits real hard and is quite streetable on the street tire when the testoterone isn't overflowing, otherwise it's a tire fryer on the street. That 5C will 60ft its *** off. You just can not hurt the CDS converters. I have tried.lol.
03-23-2013, 12:47 AM
#30
Question was asked to "lemons12" I'm pretty sure your going to have people asking lots of questions when your putting order sponsor on blast when in the first place nothing was wrong with the converter. If I can remember there U had a customer with a bad tranny not bad stall. Lime Chris mentioned the pictures u posted are not showing anything bad with the converter.
One is it had severely cooked clutches in it, that were not the "point" of the post so no pics of that were posted.
Two is that the reason they were cooked is because the converter wasn't properly cleaned out after a trans failure.
Three is that it wasn't built as it was advertised to be IMO. Chris at CircleD and I spoke today. He is going to change the wording on his website to be more clear.
This isn't the first time Chris and I have had this disagreement. Despite what many believe I do what I do to protect my customers and to let others in the industry know, there are guys in the industry who care enough to speak up.
The first time this came up I expressed my displeasure through the customer who had purchased from Chris and when Chris called he got an earful and a warning that if I found it to be more than an isolated incident, I would be sure everybody I could reach would know.
I don't just put someone on blast for one mistake. It happens to the best.
I'm not going to put someone on blast for a mechanical failure. If the issue with the converters we've seen was a mechanical failure, we would contact Circle D and try to determine the cause or to let them know, so they can learn/improve from it.
Mechanical failure can and will occur when you are pushing the limits, and in the case of the three converters I've had apart, all 3 were being used in 1000+RWHP combos. Which is why I get upset when I feel like the customer didn't get what they paid for.
It is NOT to attract attention to me. I've got an 8 week backlog on transmission builds and more work than I can keep track of right now.
03-23-2013, 12:55 AM
#32
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There were in fact several issues with the converter I posted pictures of yesterday.
One is it had severely cooked clutches in it, that were not the "point" of the post so no pics of that were posted.
Two is that the reason they were cooked is because the converter wasn't properly cleaned out after a trans failure.
Three is that it wasn't built as it was advertised to be IMO. Chris at CircleD and I spoke today. He is going to change the wording on his website to be more clear.
This isn't the first time Chris and I have had this disagreement. Despite what many believe I do what I do to protect my customers and to let others in the industry know, there are guys in the industry who care enough to speak up.
The first time this came up I expressed my displeasure through the customer who had purchased from Chris and when Chris called he got an earful and a warning that if I found it to be more than an isolated incident, I would be sure everybody I could reach would know.
I don't just put someone on blast for one mistake. It happens to the best.
I'm not going to put someone on blast for a mechanical failure. If the issue with the converters we've seen was a mechanical failure, we would contact Circle D and try to determine the cause or to let them know, so they can learn/improve from it.
Mechanical failure can and will occur when you are pushing the limits, and in the case of the three converters I've had apart, all 3 were being used in 1000+RWHP combos. Which is why I get upset when I feel like the customer didn't get what they paid for.
It is NOT to attract attention to me. I've got an 8 week backlog on transmission builds and more work than I can keep track of right now.
One is it had severely cooked clutches in it, that were not the "point" of the post so no pics of that were posted.
Two is that the reason they were cooked is because the converter wasn't properly cleaned out after a trans failure.
Three is that it wasn't built as it was advertised to be IMO. Chris at CircleD and I spoke today. He is going to change the wording on his website to be more clear.
This isn't the first time Chris and I have had this disagreement. Despite what many believe I do what I do to protect my customers and to let others in the industry know, there are guys in the industry who care enough to speak up.
The first time this came up I expressed my displeasure through the customer who had purchased from Chris and when Chris called he got an earful and a warning that if I found it to be more than an isolated incident, I would be sure everybody I could reach would know.
I don't just put someone on blast for one mistake. It happens to the best.
I'm not going to put someone on blast for a mechanical failure. If the issue with the converters we've seen was a mechanical failure, we would contact Circle D and try to determine the cause or to let them know, so they can learn/improve from it.
Mechanical failure can and will occur when you are pushing the limits, and in the case of the three converters I've had apart, all 3 were being used in 1000+RWHP combos. Which is why I get upset when I feel like the customer didn't get what they paid for.
It is NOT to attract attention to me. I've got an 8 week backlog on transmission builds and more work than I can keep track of right now.
03-23-2013, 01:25 AM
#33
Agreed.
Going back to my earlier comment in this thread. Some people blindly believe what one or two converter companies state on their website concerning billet covers or other upgrades. I've seen this over the years and it is obviously good marketing if you are trying to sell a billet converter.
90% of the converter my customers use are billet, and most of those customers truly need a billet converter. The reason for that is because many are lockup transmissions that are making 800+ HP.
The billet cover has become a pretty standard part, several different manufacturers so there is some competition and pricing is reasonable.
On a lockup unit where you are applying a clutch against the cover, the billet deal is not mandatory but with any real power you want more clutch (more flat area on the front cover), a nice thick cover to prevent flexing on clutch apply, a rigid cover to also act as a ballooning plate so it reduces labor on the build.
If we tuned the lockup to only apply at steady throttle cruise, you don't need much clutch. Even the puny 4 or 6 cyl clutch will hold that. AND that puny little clutch creates less drag when not applied.
However most of us want to be able to use the lockup for at least some acceleration at cruise, possibly making a borderline loose converter more driveable, and maybe even WOT blasts. That is where you do need the extra clutch area that the billet cover provides.
You make some trade offs when you go to a bigger clutch and especially when you start adding clutches (multi-disc). We see some dragging issues occasionally when using those that can be noticeable on our little 60 HP dyno.
You could make a converter with a little lockup clutch, add the ballooning plates to brace the cover and hub, and do all the internal mods to make it live at big power, and the clutch would be fine as long as it was only applied at light throttle cruise. However you would have spent more time and effort to add all the ballooning plates than just putting a billet cover that any converter shop can buy from several different vendors on it.
There is never any real problem with overbuilding, so I'm not one to discourage that. I wish every one of my customers could afford our Stage 5 4L80E build, just because I know they will have a hard time breaking it.
I also think it is unfair to declare a converter junk because it doesn't have a billet cover. Lots of very successful converters out there (especially in non-lockup applications) that are not billet.
We could build a non-lockup 4L80E and put a non-billet converter on it successfully at over 1000 HP. Would it be as cost effective as just doing a billet cover, probably not anymore.
Going back to my earlier comment in this thread. Some people blindly believe what one or two converter companies state on their website concerning billet covers or other upgrades. I've seen this over the years and it is obviously good marketing if you are trying to sell a billet converter.
90% of the converter my customers use are billet, and most of those customers truly need a billet converter. The reason for that is because many are lockup transmissions that are making 800+ HP.
The billet cover has become a pretty standard part, several different manufacturers so there is some competition and pricing is reasonable.
On a lockup unit where you are applying a clutch against the cover, the billet deal is not mandatory but with any real power you want more clutch (more flat area on the front cover), a nice thick cover to prevent flexing on clutch apply, a rigid cover to also act as a ballooning plate so it reduces labor on the build.
If we tuned the lockup to only apply at steady throttle cruise, you don't need much clutch. Even the puny 4 or 6 cyl clutch will hold that. AND that puny little clutch creates less drag when not applied.
However most of us want to be able to use the lockup for at least some acceleration at cruise, possibly making a borderline loose converter more driveable, and maybe even WOT blasts. That is where you do need the extra clutch area that the billet cover provides.
You make some trade offs when you go to a bigger clutch and especially when you start adding clutches (multi-disc). We see some dragging issues occasionally when using those that can be noticeable on our little 60 HP dyno.
You could make a converter with a little lockup clutch, add the ballooning plates to brace the cover and hub, and do all the internal mods to make it live at big power, and the clutch would be fine as long as it was only applied at light throttle cruise. However you would have spent more time and effort to add all the ballooning plates than just putting a billet cover that any converter shop can buy from several different vendors on it.
There is never any real problem with overbuilding, so I'm not one to discourage that. I wish every one of my customers could afford our Stage 5 4L80E build, just because I know they will have a hard time breaking it.
I also think it is unfair to declare a converter junk because it doesn't have a billet cover. Lots of very successful converters out there (especially in non-lockup applications) that are not billet.
We could build a non-lockup 4L80E and put a non-billet converter on it successfully at over 1000 HP. Would it be as cost effective as just doing a billet cover, probably not anymore.
03-23-2013, 01:32 AM
#34
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Agreed.
Going back to my earlier comment in this thread. Some people blindly believe what one or two converter companies state on their website concerning billet covers or other upgrades. I've seen this over the years and it is obviously good marketing if you are trying to sell a billet converter.
90% of the converter my customers use are billet, and most of those customers truly need a billet converter. The reason for that is because many are lockup transmissions that are making 800+ HP.
The billet cover has become a pretty standard part, several different manufacturers so there is some competition and pricing is reasonable.
On a lockup unit where you are applying a clutch against the cover, the billet deal is not mandatory but with any real power you want more clutch (more flat area on the front cover), a nice thick cover to prevent flexing on clutch apply, a rigid cover to also act as a ballooning plate so it reduces labor on the build.
If we tuned the lockup to only apply at steady throttle cruise, you don't need much clutch. Even the puny 4 or 6 cyl clutch will hold that. AND that puny little clutch creates less drag when not applied.
However most of us want to be able to use the lockup for at least some acceleration at cruise, possibly making a borderline loose converter more driveable, and maybe even WOT blasts. That is where you do need the extra clutch area that the billet cover provides.
You make some trade offs when you go to a bigger clutch and especially when you start adding clutches (multi-disc). We see some dragging issues occasionally when using those that can be noticeable on our little 60 HP dyno.
You could make a converter with a little lockup clutch, add the ballooning plates to brace the cover and hub, and do all the internal mods to make it live at big power, and the clutch would be fine as long as it was only applied at light throttle cruise. However you would have spent more time and effort to add all the ballooning plates than just putting a billet cover that any converter shop can buy from several different vendors on it.
There is never any real problem with overbuilding, so I'm not one to discourage that. I wish every one of my customers could afford our Stage 5 4L80E build, just because I know they will have a hard time breaking it.
I also think it is unfair to declare a converter junk because it doesn't have a billet cover. Lots of very successful converters out there (especially in non-lockup applications) that are not billet.
We could build a non-lockup 4L80E and put a non-billet converter on it successfully at over 1000 HP. Would it be as cost effective as just doing a billet cover, probably not anymore.
Going back to my earlier comment in this thread. Some people blindly believe what one or two converter companies state on their website concerning billet covers or other upgrades. I've seen this over the years and it is obviously good marketing if you are trying to sell a billet converter.
90% of the converter my customers use are billet, and most of those customers truly need a billet converter. The reason for that is because many are lockup transmissions that are making 800+ HP.
The billet cover has become a pretty standard part, several different manufacturers so there is some competition and pricing is reasonable.
On a lockup unit where you are applying a clutch against the cover, the billet deal is not mandatory but with any real power you want more clutch (more flat area on the front cover), a nice thick cover to prevent flexing on clutch apply, a rigid cover to also act as a ballooning plate so it reduces labor on the build.
If we tuned the lockup to only apply at steady throttle cruise, you don't need much clutch. Even the puny 4 or 6 cyl clutch will hold that. AND that puny little clutch creates less drag when not applied.
However most of us want to be able to use the lockup for at least some acceleration at cruise, possibly making a borderline loose converter more driveable, and maybe even WOT blasts. That is where you do need the extra clutch area that the billet cover provides.
You make some trade offs when you go to a bigger clutch and especially when you start adding clutches (multi-disc). We see some dragging issues occasionally when using those that can be noticeable on our little 60 HP dyno.
You could make a converter with a little lockup clutch, add the ballooning plates to brace the cover and hub, and do all the internal mods to make it live at big power, and the clutch would be fine as long as it was only applied at light throttle cruise. However you would have spent more time and effort to add all the ballooning plates than just putting a billet cover that any converter shop can buy from several different vendors on it.
There is never any real problem with overbuilding, so I'm not one to discourage that. I wish every one of my customers could afford our Stage 5 4L80E build, just because I know they will have a hard time breaking it.
I also think it is unfair to declare a converter junk because it doesn't have a billet cover. Lots of very successful converters out there (especially in non-lockup applications) that are not billet.
We could build a non-lockup 4L80E and put a non-billet converter on it successfully at over 1000 HP. Would it be as cost effective as just doing a billet cover, probably not anymore.
03-23-2013, 02:26 AM
#35
It's not a lockup unit right?
Your somewhat limited with a TH350 unless you are using some trick parts, your not likely out of a range where a non-billet converter would work really well.
If you need a TH350 converter, call PTC and don't worry about whether it is or isn't a billet converter.
03-23-2013, 03:07 AM
#36
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Why do you need a billet converter for a TH350?
It's not a lockup unit right?
Your somewhat limited with a TH350 unless you are using some trick parts, your not likely out of a range where a non-billet converter would work really well.
If you need a TH350 converter, call PTC and don't worry about whether it is or isn't a billet converter.
It's not a lockup unit right?
Your somewhat limited with a TH350 unless you are using some trick parts, your not likely out of a range where a non-billet converter would work really well.
If you need a TH350 converter, call PTC and don't worry about whether it is or isn't a billet converter.
03-23-2013, 03:17 AM
#37
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Why do you need a billet converter for a TH350?
It's not a lockup unit right?
Your somewhat limited with a TH350 unless you are using some trick parts, your not likely out of a range where a non-billet converter would work really well.
If you need a TH350 converter, call PTC and don't worry about whether it is or isn't a billet converter.
It's not a lockup unit right?
Your somewhat limited with a TH350 unless you are using some trick parts, your not likely out of a range where a non-billet converter would work really well.
If you need a TH350 converter, call PTC and don't worry about whether it is or isn't a billet converter.
03-23-2013, 03:22 AM
#38
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I wanted another billet converter because of people saying we pay what we get lol.. Ill problably be pushing 600 the most. And some non billet are rated at 750
03-23-2013, 10:20 AM
#39
A Th350 needs some upgrades for serious power. The sprag is a good one, using a wider 4L60 low support and low roller (sprag) is a debatable upgrade.
But it will still need an input shaft for anything much north of 600 HP/TQ. Then the planetaries become the weak point at around 800 HP/Tq depending on vehicle weight.
You're looking at big $ to upgrade to a nice planetary set.
But it will still need an input shaft for anything much north of 600 HP/TQ. Then the planetaries become the weak point at around 800 HP/Tq depending on vehicle weight.
You're looking at big $ to upgrade to a nice planetary set.
Really!? Didn't your car 60' in the 1.5s N/A? Just saying....