Converters.. PTC vs Neal Chance vs Coan?
07-22-2013, 02:17 PM
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Converters.. PTC vs Neal Chance vs Coan? First let me start off by saying I'm not trying to start a brand war. I know all three of these companies are very good and reputable, especially outside of ls1tech. I'm just looking for opinions and customer reviews since these brands don't get alot of attention on this board. Please don't start any wars, brand bashing, etc. Just an honest review good or bad and leave it at that. Thanks.
Now onto the car, I've been planning on doing my true dual exhaust but I might as well get my converter before it because it'll be a bitch to pull the trans after it.
So I've been reading alot about converters, and it seems like they're similar to cams. Some are off the shelf, better than stock, but not the best. Some are custom built to your application. I'm the type of guy to where if I'm spending hundreds of $ and hours of work on my car, I want it to be 100% worth it.
I've been reading alot of posts from Lemons12 (not sure if that's his exact screen name but he posts alot, I'm sure everyone knows who he is), and he's saying that PTC makes some of the best converters hands down. They hit hard, and pull hard. He refers them to every one, and everyone who posts reviews about them has nothing but postive remarks. That sounds like a good converter to me.
What I'm posting for, is before I pull the trigger on PTC, I want to ask about Neil Chance and Coan converters too. I see he mentioned them a few times as some of the top converters also. I remember someone saying Coan doesn't really dabble with street cars, they're more of a All out race converter company, and they do it well. I haven't heard much on Neil Chance though. All of these companies are very popular outside of Ls1tech, they have to do good work.
Does anybody run any of these on a street driven LS1 car? If not, I'll probably stick with PTC.
Also, a somewhat unrelated question. I'm not really shopping for a billet front converter, but is it neccesary for daily driving? I remember seeing a post that stated converters without billet fronts have a smaller area for the lock up clutch to apply, so would I be able to give moderate throttle at, say, highways speeds with the converter locked to be able to pass someone? Or will I need to go with a billet front for that kind of street driving? This car is a DD so it will see situations like that just about every day.
Thanks in advance for the help and opinions.
Now onto the car, I've been planning on doing my true dual exhaust but I might as well get my converter before it because it'll be a bitch to pull the trans after it.
So I've been reading alot about converters, and it seems like they're similar to cams. Some are off the shelf, better than stock, but not the best. Some are custom built to your application. I'm the type of guy to where if I'm spending hundreds of $ and hours of work on my car, I want it to be 100% worth it.
I've been reading alot of posts from Lemons12 (not sure if that's his exact screen name but he posts alot, I'm sure everyone knows who he is), and he's saying that PTC makes some of the best converters hands down. They hit hard, and pull hard. He refers them to every one, and everyone who posts reviews about them has nothing but postive remarks. That sounds like a good converter to me.
What I'm posting for, is before I pull the trigger on PTC, I want to ask about Neil Chance and Coan converters too. I see he mentioned them a few times as some of the top converters also. I remember someone saying Coan doesn't really dabble with street cars, they're more of a All out race converter company, and they do it well. I haven't heard much on Neil Chance though. All of these companies are very popular outside of Ls1tech, they have to do good work.
Does anybody run any of these on a street driven LS1 car? If not, I'll probably stick with PTC.
Also, a somewhat unrelated question. I'm not really shopping for a billet front converter, but is it neccesary for daily driving? I remember seeing a post that stated converters without billet fronts have a smaller area for the lock up clutch to apply, so would I be able to give moderate throttle at, say, highways speeds with the converter locked to be able to pass someone? Or will I need to go with a billet front for that kind of street driving? This car is a DD so it will see situations like that just about every day.
Thanks in advance for the help and opinions.
07-22-2013, 06:02 PM
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Honestly it all depends on your setup. It sounds like you're running a basic bolt on car so going with a Yank SS series would probably be great. What do you see yourself doing with the car over time? If you are running nitrous or FI sometime soon then you may want to consider a stronger converter. Also if you see yourself running a bigger and badder setup then you may want to consider what transmission you would run(4l80e/th400). What I'd recommend is calling a couple vendors and talking to them specifically about your setup and your goals. What works for me won't work for you and won't work for the next guy. Much like cams as you mentioned it all varies and primarily due to the users intended purpose and setup.
07-22-2013, 06:24 PM
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FTI, makes good converters as well, I have a 3200 stall FTI, in my 94 Z28, and loving it big time.. As I was reading your thread I am doing the same thing as you, first I installed my converter, than I am going with headers.. This is my 2nd FTI, converter and no problems yet, and they have great customer service..
07-22-2013, 06:56 PM
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Honestly it all depends on your setup. It sounds like you're running a basic bolt on car so going with a Yank SS series would probably be great. What do you see yourself doing with the car over time? If you are running nitrous or FI sometime soon then you may want to consider a stronger converter. Also if you see yourself running a bigger and badder setup then you may want to consider what transmission you would run(4l80e/th400). What I'd recommend is calling a couple vendors and talking to them specifically about your setup and your goals. What works for me won't work for you and won't work for the next guy. Much like cams as you mentioned it all varies and primarily due to the users intended purpose and setup.
Like others here I run a Yank SS3600 which many say is not the hardest hitting, but perhaps the tightest on the street.
If you are planning on 600+ HP at the track, then a PTC or other specialized converter might be better, but then you should be thinking 4L80E too.
07-23-2013, 12:00 AM
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My short term goals for the car is 11.9, stock internals, N/A, minimal weight reduction. I want everything to be durable and be able to last. Everything from the motor to the rear end and everything in between. I'd rather go slow 100 times than go fast 10 times lol.
And I'm not considering any race converters. Coan is the exception because they usually only dabble on the race end of the spectrum, but PTC I know for sure has built conveters for street LS1/LT1 f-bodies and everyone has positive reviews about them. And me personally, I do consider how hard it will hit. I want to know that my car is performing the best it can for what I've done to it. Even if that means blowing the tires off on the street. If I didn't want to be as fast as possible, I would've bought a Mustang lol. It's hard for me to settle for less, I'll always wish I went the other route. Hence why I"m doing true duals.
Their converter cost me $450+85 for the trans cooler. He said it will stall to 4k. A little loose on the street, but it'll get the job done, and last.
Just because it's a street car doesn't mean that I have to settle for off the shelf parts, especially when they're more expensive than something built to your specific needs.
And I'm not considering any race converters. Coan is the exception because they usually only dabble on the race end of the spectrum, but PTC I know for sure has built conveters for street LS1/LT1 f-bodies and everyone has positive reviews about them. And me personally, I do consider how hard it will hit. I want to know that my car is performing the best it can for what I've done to it. Even if that means blowing the tires off on the street. If I didn't want to be as fast as possible, I would've bought a Mustang lol. It's hard for me to settle for less, I'll always wish I went the other route. Hence why I"m doing true duals.
Their converter cost me $450+85 for the trans cooler. He said it will stall to 4k. A little loose on the street, but it'll get the job done, and last.
Just because it's a street car doesn't mean that I have to settle for off the shelf parts, especially when they're more expensive than something built to your specific needs.
07-23-2013, 12:45 AM
#6
I would suggest something like the E series from CircleD. It's an efficient stator setup with a low STR in a billet housing.
The E would allow for traction on the street. But it was designed for bracket racers who need consistency in their setup. It's a little loose, but it hits plenty hard as it's designed to hit the tires in a consistent, easy to modulate manner.
It's also very efficient on the big end.
The E would allow for traction on the street. But it was designed for bracket racers who need consistency in their setup. It's a little loose, but it hits plenty hard as it's designed to hit the tires in a consistent, easy to modulate manner.
It's also very efficient on the big end.
07-23-2013, 01:43 AM
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I appreciate the feedback, but earlier today I went ahead and got the PTC.
What he ended up speccing up for me was a 4000, 1.5-2.0 conveter.
I think I'm going to call him back tomorrow morning and ask if he can possibly change that to a 42-4400 with a low str, in the 1.5-1.8 range, not all the way up to 2.0.
My theory on what I'd gain on this:
-Higher flash rpm, hit's harder from a dig.
-Lower str, better manners on the street, efficiency up top, doesn't hit TOO hard on the street. Trans will also run cooler with the lower str.
I've never driven a stalled auto though, so my theory is just a theory from what I've read.
What he ended up speccing up for me was a 4000, 1.5-2.0 conveter.
I think I'm going to call him back tomorrow morning and ask if he can possibly change that to a 42-4400 with a low str, in the 1.5-1.8 range, not all the way up to 2.0.
My theory on what I'd gain on this:
-Higher flash rpm, hit's harder from a dig.
-Lower str, better manners on the street, efficiency up top, doesn't hit TOO hard on the street. Trans will also run cooler with the lower str.
I've never driven a stalled auto though, so my theory is just a theory from what I've read.
Last edited by DREAMZ28; 07-23-2013 at 01:48 AM.
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07-23-2013, 01:52 AM
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Glad you ended up going PTC, sorry I saw this a little late. You will not be let down!
All three of those are awesome companies, any could have met your goal.
No need for billet with what you are wanting.
LOL at any three being "race converter companies". I DD my PTC that is flashing to 4800 right now. I DD the 3500 specd for a 200 before this and a 4000 before that.
They are no more "race oriented" than a Yank. A yank drives slightly tighter but doesn't perform as well. I'll take a 300$ cheaper better performing converter built for my needs instead of the same converter 300 other cars are running ANY day.
And if you are blowing the tires off, fix your suspension. I run 315 Nittos and I dead hook from a 20 and I can't complain a bit about traction from a dig, I'm WOT before I hit 20 with minimal tire spin.
I'm making 500+/480+ and flashing to 4800. It isn't an issue with how hard the converter hits, it is an issue with your suspension. Fix your suspension issue, don't go with a worse performing converter.
All three of those are awesome companies, any could have met your goal.
No need for billet with what you are wanting.
LOL at any three being "race converter companies". I DD my PTC that is flashing to 4800 right now. I DD the 3500 specd for a 200 before this and a 4000 before that.
They are no more "race oriented" than a Yank. A yank drives slightly tighter but doesn't perform as well. I'll take a 300$ cheaper better performing converter built for my needs instead of the same converter 300 other cars are running ANY day.
And if you are blowing the tires off, fix your suspension. I run 315 Nittos and I dead hook from a 20 and I can't complain a bit about traction from a dig, I'm WOT before I hit 20 with minimal tire spin.
I'm making 500+/480+ and flashing to 4800. It isn't an issue with how hard the converter hits, it is an issue with your suspension. Fix your suspension issue, don't go with a worse performing converter.
07-23-2013, 10:28 PM
#9
I wouldn't say the CircleD is a worse performing converter. Plenty of folks use the E series and run very very consistent times with it.
BTW, the stock converter has an STR of 1.9.
And when you go with a really low STR, you do need more RPMs to get moving. So I don't know if they run cooler since they are slipping pretty good... But even the streetable race converters from Yank, like the PT4000, have STRs that are pretty low... 2.1 or 2.2.
But STR only tells a bit of the story. The stator and impeller relationship also matters to determine how loose or efficient a converter is. It's not really black magic.
BTW, the stock converter has an STR of 1.9.
And when you go with a really low STR, you do need more RPMs to get moving. So I don't know if they run cooler since they are slipping pretty good... But even the streetable race converters from Yank, like the PT4000, have STRs that are pretty low... 2.1 or 2.2.
But STR only tells a bit of the story. The stator and impeller relationship also matters to determine how loose or efficient a converter is. It's not really black magic.
07-23-2013, 11:25 PM
#10
I wouldn't say the CircleD is a worse performing converter. Plenty of folks use the E series and run very very consistent times with it.
BTW, the stock converter has an STR of 1.9.
And when you go with a really low STR, you do need more RPMs to get moving. So I don't know if they run cooler since they are slipping pretty good... But even the streetable race converters from Yank, like the PT4000, have STRs that are pretty low... 2.1 or 2.2.
But STR only tells a bit of the story. The stator and impeller relationship also matters to determine how loose or efficient a converter is. It's not really black magic.
BTW, the stock converter has an STR of 1.9.
And when you go with a really low STR, you do need more RPMs to get moving. So I don't know if they run cooler since they are slipping pretty good... But even the streetable race converters from Yank, like the PT4000, have STRs that are pretty low... 2.1 or 2.2.
But STR only tells a bit of the story. The stator and impeller relationship also matters to determine how loose or efficient a converter is. It's not really black magic.
They are good companies and make an awesome product. Just, IMO, the others that are listed make a better performing converter.
07-24-2013, 08:56 PM
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Lane was a great guy, I ended up calling him on 3 seperate occasions with questions and he was glad to answer all of them, never seemed busy even though he probably was. Customer service so far has been good.
And I understand Circle D and Yank are great companies, I was dead set on Circle D but the only offerings I saw on their website that flashed where I wanted them to were billet, which made them cost too much for my budget. I probably could've called in but I did research and found out about PTC.
And oh ok, so generally speaking the lower the STR, the looser the converter, everything else equal? I went on yank's site, and they say the PT4000 was in the 2.3-2.5ish range (dont remember exactly) and it looked pretty loose in a video on youtube. And typically with Yanks converters, the higher the flash rpm is, the higher the str is also. I always figured that went hand in hand, but I guess it's to tighten up the sky high converter? The converter Lane is building for me is a 10.5" that will flash to 4k, with an estimated STR between 1.5-2.0. He said it would be a little mushy on the street but not too unbearable, I told him I wouldn't mind a loose converter it gets the job done. How do yall think it'll feel on the street behind a full weight T/A, 2.73s out back? (For now, but not in a rush because the converter masks the disadvantages of a tall rear gear) I know my gear and weight will make it feel looser in comparison to a lighted car with 3.73s or 4.10s. Only reason I'm concerned about it is because I'm doing LT's and duals probably dumped, and I want to keep the rpms somewhat down, because aftermarket exhaust is illegal in VA. If it's too loose I'll probably end up bringing it out the back with maybe a second set of mufflers.
I asked what the exact STR would be but he said it's a complex formula that takes a while to figure out, so I was fine with an estimate. He said it would do good for my car with my goals though so I'm not to worried.
Like I said when I get it installed I'm going to go ahead and break it in and make a 'review' video the same day with drivability and some WOT pulls and post it up. I don't think I'll be let down.
One last question though. What does the size of the converter have to do with how it behaves? I see alot of full blown race cars run 8.5" converters, and the stock converter is 12.5". So smaller is apparently better in some way, anybody know what the science is behind that?
And I understand Circle D and Yank are great companies, I was dead set on Circle D but the only offerings I saw on their website that flashed where I wanted them to were billet, which made them cost too much for my budget. I probably could've called in but I did research and found out about PTC.
And oh ok, so generally speaking the lower the STR, the looser the converter, everything else equal? I went on yank's site, and they say the PT4000 was in the 2.3-2.5ish range (dont remember exactly) and it looked pretty loose in a video on youtube. And typically with Yanks converters, the higher the flash rpm is, the higher the str is also. I always figured that went hand in hand, but I guess it's to tighten up the sky high converter? The converter Lane is building for me is a 10.5" that will flash to 4k, with an estimated STR between 1.5-2.0. He said it would be a little mushy on the street but not too unbearable, I told him I wouldn't mind a loose converter it gets the job done. How do yall think it'll feel on the street behind a full weight T/A, 2.73s out back? (For now, but not in a rush because the converter masks the disadvantages of a tall rear gear) I know my gear and weight will make it feel looser in comparison to a lighted car with 3.73s or 4.10s. Only reason I'm concerned about it is because I'm doing LT's and duals probably dumped, and I want to keep the rpms somewhat down, because aftermarket exhaust is illegal in VA. If it's too loose I'll probably end up bringing it out the back with maybe a second set of mufflers.
I asked what the exact STR would be but he said it's a complex formula that takes a while to figure out, so I was fine with an estimate. He said it would do good for my car with my goals though so I'm not to worried.
Like I said when I get it installed I'm going to go ahead and break it in and make a 'review' video the same day with drivability and some WOT pulls and post it up. I don't think I'll be let down.
One last question though. What does the size of the converter have to do with how it behaves? I see alot of full blown race cars run 8.5" converters, and the stock converter is 12.5". So smaller is apparently better in some way, anybody know what the science is behind that?
07-24-2013, 09:04 PM
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And lemons, yea after my rear upgrade, I'll start on the suspension. I'll have to do some reading though, I don't even know half of the suspension components. I'm not even too focused on power anymore to be honest, I've beat so many people from a dig with a stock stall and radials, just because I can hook. I just want the car to run right and be reliable, build it from the back, forwards.
07-25-2013, 12:35 AM
#13
2.73 is what will make it feel sluggish. Get a 3.73 or 4.10 in there and you'll be fine.
Btw, CircleD does custom converters. The converter I have you can't buy through the online store (well, I placed the order there after talking to Chris and he changed it on the invoice).
Btw, CircleD does custom converters. The converter I have you can't buy through the online store (well, I placed the order there after talking to Chris and he changed it on the invoice).
07-25-2013, 02:16 AM
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2.73 is what will make it feel sluggish. Get a 3.73 or 4.10 in there and you'll be fine.
Btw, CircleD does custom converters. The converter I have you can't buy through the online store (well, I placed the order there after talking to Chris and he changed it on the invoice).
Btw, CircleD does custom converters. The converter I have you can't buy through the online store (well, I placed the order there after talking to Chris and he changed it on the invoice).
