4L60E case difference of 1994 vs 2001?
02-03-2016, 04:52 PM
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4L60E case difference of 1994 vs 2001? Hi all, I'm hoping someone here may be able to help me: is there a significant difference in the 4L60E case internal hydraulics and/or sealing surfaces between a 1994 and a 2001?
(Please notice, I am aware the 4L60E as a whole are significantly different, but I'm asking specifically about the case hydraulics/surfaces only.)
Context:
I bought a 1994 Corvette with 92k miles on an LT1 with what seems to be burned up 3-4 clutches in the transmission. Soon after, I had an optispark failure. Not uncommon failures, huh?
So I'm planning to address this mess by swapping to a 24x conversion running a 2001 PCM. I'm pretty sure I understand the engine mods, but I'm seeking clarification for the transmission.
I also have a donor 2001 4L60E from a wrecked 60k-mile 2WD S10.
What I'd like to do:
Salvage the pump, valve body, and wiring from the 2001 4L60E and transplant them into the 1994 4L60E, then rebuild the frictions and upgrade other hard parts.
The obvious differences complicating my swap as I recall between the 4L60E from 1994 and 2001 are:
1) PWM TCC starting in '95+.
2) Redesigned 3-2 downshift strategy starting in 96+ (so a 2001 PCM with a 1994 4L60E would have a 3-neutral-2 downshift problem).
3) My Corvette tailshaft housing must be used for mounting the transmission and connecting to the torque arm. The 4L60E tailshaft housing changed from a four to a six bolt pattern starting around 97+.
5) The LTx 4L60E have a slightly slender bellhousing area to give a little more clearance to the exhaust.
I'm planning a fresh rebuild with: GPZ105 3-4 clutches; Borg Warner 2-4 band; Borg Warner sprags; molded forward pistons; lots of the Sonnax upgrades (reaction shell, performance pack, wide bushings, etc); but keeping the 4 pinion planetary gears along with the oil deflector if they check out within specs.
I don't care about the VSS location & PRND switch wiring as I am planning a custom harness anyway.
I'll be using the Sonnax TCC PWM elimination kit, so the PWM TCC does not wreck my new torque converter.
I'm aware there is a 6-to-4 bolt adapter for the 4L60E tailshaft housing, but the price of this adapter is more than a '96 4L60E core. If necessary, I'd get a '96 4L60E core and swap the 2001 internals over and bolt up my '94 tailshaft housing. But I'd like to know if I can use my '94 case (especially because the LTx case is a bit slender, and there's no taking a hammer to the Corvette firewall).
What I have noticed:
The pump of the 1995+ 4L60E seems to have a longer lip than the 1994? Anyone know if this will be a problem?
Or anyone know any other complication I'm not seeing?
I was hoping to find a GM part number for the 4L60E case only and compare the numbers between a 1994 and a 1995/1996, but I haven't been able to find these numbers...
Any help or other thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
(Please notice, I am aware the 4L60E as a whole are significantly different, but I'm asking specifically about the case hydraulics/surfaces only.)
Context:
I bought a 1994 Corvette with 92k miles on an LT1 with what seems to be burned up 3-4 clutches in the transmission. Soon after, I had an optispark failure. Not uncommon failures, huh?
So I'm planning to address this mess by swapping to a 24x conversion running a 2001 PCM. I'm pretty sure I understand the engine mods, but I'm seeking clarification for the transmission.
I also have a donor 2001 4L60E from a wrecked 60k-mile 2WD S10.
What I'd like to do:
Salvage the pump, valve body, and wiring from the 2001 4L60E and transplant them into the 1994 4L60E, then rebuild the frictions and upgrade other hard parts.
The obvious differences complicating my swap as I recall between the 4L60E from 1994 and 2001 are:
1) PWM TCC starting in '95+.
2) Redesigned 3-2 downshift strategy starting in 96+ (so a 2001 PCM with a 1994 4L60E would have a 3-neutral-2 downshift problem).
3) My Corvette tailshaft housing must be used for mounting the transmission and connecting to the torque arm. The 4L60E tailshaft housing changed from a four to a six bolt pattern starting around 97+.
5) The LTx 4L60E have a slightly slender bellhousing area to give a little more clearance to the exhaust.
I'm planning a fresh rebuild with: GPZ105 3-4 clutches; Borg Warner 2-4 band; Borg Warner sprags; molded forward pistons; lots of the Sonnax upgrades (reaction shell, performance pack, wide bushings, etc); but keeping the 4 pinion planetary gears along with the oil deflector if they check out within specs.
I don't care about the VSS location & PRND switch wiring as I am planning a custom harness anyway.
I'll be using the Sonnax TCC PWM elimination kit, so the PWM TCC does not wreck my new torque converter.
I'm aware there is a 6-to-4 bolt adapter for the 4L60E tailshaft housing, but the price of this adapter is more than a '96 4L60E core. If necessary, I'd get a '96 4L60E core and swap the 2001 internals over and bolt up my '94 tailshaft housing. But I'd like to know if I can use my '94 case (especially because the LTx case is a bit slender, and there's no taking a hammer to the Corvette firewall).
What I have noticed:
The pump of the 1995+ 4L60E seems to have a longer lip than the 1994? Anyone know if this will be a problem?
Or anyone know any other complication I'm not seeing?
I was hoping to find a GM part number for the 4L60E case only and compare the numbers between a 1994 and a 1995/1996, but I haven't been able to find these numbers...
Any help or other thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Last edited by Chas91Z28; 02-03-2016 at 06:51 PM.
02-03-2016, 08:20 PM
#2
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Hopefully one of the pro builders can confirm whether or not all '94 thru '04 (?) 4L60E cases have the same hydraulic lines and therefore can accept a PWM pump and valve body from later years, e.g. a '01 valve body.
I'll go out on a limb (and correct this post if told it is wrong) and say that the '01 valve body should work just fine in the '94 case.
However I really don't know about the PWM pump or perhaps it is better to just use the '94 pump since you plan to disable the PWM TCC anyway.
The ATSG Update manuals lists these pumps:
1993-1994
1995-1996
1997
It says they are not interchangeable.
I suspect '97 and through '04 are the same. In '05 the pump-to-case seal was changed to something different and not interchangeable. And in '06 the Input Speed Sensor (ISS) became common.
I'll go out on a limb (and correct this post if told it is wrong) and say that the '01 valve body should work just fine in the '94 case.
However I really don't know about the PWM pump or perhaps it is better to just use the '94 pump since you plan to disable the PWM TCC anyway.
The ATSG Update manuals lists these pumps:
1993-1994
1995-1996
1997
It says they are not interchangeable.
I suspect '97 and through '04 are the same. In '05 the pump-to-case seal was changed to something different and not interchangeable. And in '06 the Input Speed Sensor (ISS) became common.
02-03-2016, 08:32 PM
#3
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If it were me, I would look for a '96 core as that will work correctly with your PCM and fit your car. A worn out '96 core should be readily available for under $200.
02-03-2016, 10:54 PM
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If you install the 2001 Pump, Separator plate, & Valve body in the 1994 Case....It will work. (Both cases have the "TCC Regulated Apply" circuit) The 2 cases wormtracks are cast a little different in the above mentioned case circuit but doesn't effect this swap.
I am ASSUMING the 2001 is a 298mm unit?
I am ASSUMING the 2001 is a 298mm unit?
02-04-2016, 07:35 PM
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I'll give it a try then! Thanks @mrvedit and @clinebarger for sharing what you know.
Yes, the 2001 4L60E has the 298 mm input shaft.
I'm going to give this a try; a Frankenstein 4L60E!
Salvaging the 2001 pump, valve body, and separator plate, and putting it into my 1994 case.
@clinebarger (or anyone else), could you briefly explain what the wormtrack is for? Or share a link that explains this? I've barely come up with anything, even when searching GM documents. I see that it's an extra webbing in the valvebody. I'm thinking it's something related to the annular TCC (or am I mistaken)? I'm mostly asking so I'm aware of what I should watch for possibly malfunctioning. If the wormtrack difference is causing problems, then I'll just switch to a '97+ valve body & separator plate which I'm thinking is compatible with the 2001 pump and matches my 1994 case wormtrack?
Yes, the 2001 4L60E has the 298 mm input shaft.
I'm going to give this a try; a Frankenstein 4L60E!
Salvaging the 2001 pump, valve body, and separator plate, and putting it into my 1994 case.
@clinebarger (or anyone else), could you briefly explain what the wormtrack is for? Or share a link that explains this? I've barely come up with anything, even when searching GM documents. I see that it's an extra webbing in the valvebody. I'm thinking it's something related to the annular TCC (or am I mistaken)? I'm mostly asking so I'm aware of what I should watch for possibly malfunctioning. If the wormtrack difference is causing problems, then I'll just switch to a '97+ valve body & separator plate which I'm thinking is compatible with the 2001 pump and matches my 1994 case wormtrack?
02-05-2016, 10:22 AM
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The best I've found was the 2001-2002 4L60E valve body have an additional webbing that I've circled in red in the attached picture to this post. I don't know why the valve body is being squared in blue in this area.
I'm sure hoping it's just an irrelevant detail. Especially since I'll be modifying the TCC control with the Sonnax kit to get rid of the PWM/EC3, so I'm thinking I'll be alright.
I'm sure hoping it's just an irrelevant detail. Especially since I'll be modifying the TCC control with the Sonnax kit to get rid of the PWM/EC3, so I'm thinking I'll be alright.
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02-06-2016, 09:59 PM
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'93 Valve Body, Yellow Circle is the TCC Regulated Apply Valve passages. All '93-'00 VB castings look like this.
'03 Valve Body, Circle highlights the changes made to the VB casting for '01 (Full Annular Port)
'99 GM Plate, The round hole in the black circle is the TCC Regulated Apply hole.
2008 GM Plate, The rectangular hole in the white circle is the TCC Regulated Apply hole. This is the change made to the Plate for '01.
The hole in the yellow circle gets blocked per the Sonnax shift kit, The TCC PWM Solenoid strokes the PWM Isolator Valve through this orifice.
'93/'94 TransGo plate, The black circle is where the PWM TCC Solenoid holes would be on a PWM unit.
The yellow circle is the TCC Regulated Apply hole, All TG 4L60E plates have a rectangular hole here to fit both annular & non-annular valve bodies.
The reason you do not use a "Round Hole" Plate on a '01 & up valve body.
Comparison of a '99 plate on top of a '04 plate.
'93-'00 Case Regulated Apply passage.
First up is a '00 F-body Case.
Second is a '93 C-Truck Case.
To show the passage from the beginning of production to the end.
'03 Case, The Regulated Apply passage was heavily modified, Has a ton of area compared too the previous style.
'03 Valve Body, Circle highlights the changes made to the VB casting for '01 (Full Annular Port)
'99 GM Plate, The round hole in the black circle is the TCC Regulated Apply hole.
2008 GM Plate, The rectangular hole in the white circle is the TCC Regulated Apply hole. This is the change made to the Plate for '01.
The hole in the yellow circle gets blocked per the Sonnax shift kit, The TCC PWM Solenoid strokes the PWM Isolator Valve through this orifice.
'93/'94 TransGo plate, The black circle is where the PWM TCC Solenoid holes would be on a PWM unit.
The yellow circle is the TCC Regulated Apply hole, All TG 4L60E plates have a rectangular hole here to fit both annular & non-annular valve bodies.
The reason you do not use a "Round Hole" Plate on a '01 & up valve body.
Comparison of a '99 plate on top of a '04 plate.
'93-'00 Case Regulated Apply passage.
First up is a '00 F-body Case.
Second is a '93 C-Truck Case.
To show the passage from the beginning of production to the end.
'03 Case, The Regulated Apply passage was heavily modified, Has a ton of area compared too the previous style.
02-06-2016, 11:44 PM
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Yeah, I'm blown away too. Big thanks @clinebarger. This isn't info that's found on the internet (at least not as easily). Definitely agree with @coryforsenate, this would be awesome to add to the general transmission stuff sticky.
Thanks to @clinebarger, I was able to hunt down a GM TSB#: 01-07-30-012 that explains this valvebody change. And like @clinebarger explained, the TSB states this new valvebody can be retrofitted into older 4L60E as long as the appropriate new separator plate is also used (as @clinebarger obviously shows why).
@clinebarger, you also clearly point out to me that there's no reason for me to pass up my '94 case for a '96 case. I was on the fence about this for a while, and I'm sure glad I posted a thread in here. This knowledge really puts you up with the pros.
Thanks to @clinebarger, I was able to hunt down a GM TSB#: 01-07-30-012 that explains this valvebody change. And like @clinebarger explained, the TSB states this new valvebody can be retrofitted into older 4L60E as long as the appropriate new separator plate is also used (as @clinebarger obviously shows why).
@clinebarger, you also clearly point out to me that there's no reason for me to pass up my '94 case for a '96 case. I was on the fence about this for a while, and I'm sure glad I posted a thread in here. This knowledge really puts you up with the pros.
02-07-2016, 08:46 AM
#11
Moderator
Yes, thank you for sharing your knowledge and the great pictures Clinebarger.
This thread has been added as a sticky. Any other contributions about the differences in the case, valve body and pump between '94 and '02 are very welcome.
