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I need to replace the rear Planets during 4l60e rebuild. I've been hunting for parts and keep seeing 5 pinion planets for cheap. I called Natpro and they wanted $400+ for a new GM unit. Are these any good or a Chinesium bomb ready to go off? Thanks Also looking for a honest trans hard parts distributor.
Get good used oem 4 pinion planetaries. They go for about $25.00 - $35.00 for each. There are no better ones here. Make sure the pinions do not wobble, and the bearing inside spins smoothly.
I need to replace the rear Planets during 4l60e rebuild. I've been hunting for parts and keep seeing 5 pinion planets for cheap. I called Natpro and they wanted $400+ for a new GM unit. Are these any good or a Chinesium bomb ready to go off? Thanks Also looking for a honest trans hard parts distributor.
DO NOT use aftermarket 5 pinions. They are made from the powder you put on doughnuts. junk.
I have heard about a rear 4 pinion with an oil slinger? Are there differences in the 4 pinions?
This was one of our (GM) cost saving attempts with the THM700-R4...
It is not necessary at all in a 4L60E... We redesigned the line-pressure to lube-oil balance, via the pressure-regulator valve to help lube the gear-train.
This was one of our (GM) cost saving attempts with the THM700-R4...
It is not necessary at all in a 4L60E... We redesigned the line-pressure to lube-oil balance, via the pressure-regulator valve to help lube the gear-train.
If they 4 pinions are plenty strong, what was the sole reason for the 5's to be designed? Is the material for the 5's different than the 4?
If they 4 pinions are plenty strong, what was the sole reason for the 5's to be designed? Is the material for the 5's different than the 4?
Cost savings...
The materials used for the 5-pinion GM planets are inferior to the 4-pinion planets.
From older posts:
Originally Posted by vorteciroc
Regarding the Planetary gears:
-From a load distribution standpoint; if two planetary gears are being compared, with the only difference being the number of pinion gears (metallurgy, dimensions, and everything else is identical)...
then the planet with 5 pinion gears would be better at spreading/ distributing the load/ force placed upon it and be considered stronger.
-However the "4L60E family" 5 pinion planets are made of inferior metallurgy, and are over all weaker than the 4 pinion planets.
To try and compensate for the inferior metallurgy; we increased the mass/ material surrounding the pinion gears... However it was simply not enough.
Look at this image of a 4 pinion planet. Notice the space/ air/ open area around the pinion gears:
This is a good thing, as it better allows lubrication oil to move/ spread about.
Compare that to this image of a 5 pinion planet:
The open area (around the pinion gear) had to be reduced to try and bring back some strength over all to the planet.
This however slightly hurts the lubrication.
On the rear 5 pinion planetary gear; we were able to add some lube oil slots to slightly improve the lube to the pinion gears.
You will see the OEM 5 pinion planets crack/ break way before the 4 pinion models.
The aftermarket 5 pinion planets are even worse... Do NOT ever purchase these.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with the 4 pinion planets... the only reason we actually made the 5 pinion gears was to save money (these parts were a cost cutting measure).
Originally Posted by vorteciroc
If everything else were identical... 5 pinion gears would be stronger.
But as I explained, the metallurgy/ casting is weaker... thus the planet as a whole is weaker.
You can use the 5 pinion planets... just not with high power.
I would switch to the 4 pinion planets in the 500 HP+ range... or if you have 4 pinion planets, just keep them.
The 4 pinion sets have survived over a year at 1,200+ rear wheel HP in one of my test vehicles... i can NOT say the same for the 5 pinion sets (I have broken the castings at less than half that power).
Exactly what I've been saying for YEARS
Now a GM insider confirms yet again on this forum. hallelujah
5 pinions are junk. They always were.
"but then why did they put them in the 4l65 if they are junk"
because they added a clutch, a better input shaft, etc and offset that cost with garbage planets
If they 4 pinions are plenty strong, what was the sole reason for the 5's to be designed? Is the material for the 5's different than the 4?
Well I didnt believe them at first.......but i went ahead and put a front 4 pinion unit back in my trans, I destroyed my output shaft and it took out my 5 pinion. So after running out of $$ and these two guys telling me this...I went with 4 pinions...and i had some spares on hand so it cost me $0. So far, my trans has been holding. I'm probably making some decent power too.
5.3
ported 243's
222/233 cam
vsr billet wheel 7875 on 20-22psi....has seen 24psi with a passenger in the car. i'm pretty sure its over 700hp. I havent dynoed it, or been to the track with the new setup...but i do know that if I punch it at 70mph, as soon as the boost hits, the tires start spinning.
Well I didnt believe them at first.......but i went ahead and put a front 4 pinion unit back in my trans, I destroyed my output shaft and it took out my 5 pinion. So after running out of $$ and these two guys telling me this...I went with 4 pinions...and i had some spares on hand so it cost me $0. So far, my trans has been holding. I'm probably making some decent power too.
5.3
ported 243's
222/233 cam
vsr billet wheel 7875 on 20-22psi....has seen 24psi with a passenger in the car. i'm pretty sure its over 700hp. I havent dynoed it, or been to the track with the new setup...but i do know that if I punch it at 70mph, as soon as the boost hits, the tires start spinning.
How would I of all people here, have this wrong ? LOL or why should I not be believed?
GM tricked their own engineers into ignoring science and believing their legal department... I think not LMAO!
Exactly what I've been saying for YEARS
Now a GM insider confirms yet again on this forum. hallelujah
5 pinions are junk. They always were.
"but then why did they put them in the 4l65 if they are junk"
because they added a clutch, a better input shaft, etc and offset that cost with garbage planets
I wish some more of the members were familiar with older GM transmissions such as the Chevrolet THM350 or the Buick Super-Turbine 300.
As you know the THM700-R4/ 4L60E transmission family uses planets that were created from the THM350 planets (and partly the ST-300)...
I would like people to see the improvements in the 4L60E planets with torrington-bearings and oiling improvements over the Chevrolet THM350 planets (Many Buick THM350s had some torrington-bearings).
These are honestly great planets that were designed during a time when the most HP available in a Corvette was about 220 HP... a Camaro had engines between 155 HP to 205 HP.
Now these planets go in vehicles with over 1,200 HP to the tires!!!
Actually there has always been 'Hype" and bad information surrounding gear sets/ planets...
Just like the "Hype" around "straight-cut" gears for a THM400 or 4L80E!
The "Hype" says that these gear sets are stronger... WRONG!
They kill the thrust load that would occur in the "Helical-cut" gear sets...
Making less wear and tear... possibly lasting longer...
NOT making anything stronger!!!
Something wearing less does not equate to stronger...
The "straight-cut" gear design is actually substantially weaker than the "helical-cut" gear design.
The bottom line here; is the helical gears have better and greater tooth contact... this makes for a stronger gear set!
There is a place for "straight-cut" gear sets... but generally for all of you DIY street car guys... you have no need for them.
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Off brand 5 pinion planets? 
or why should I not be believed?