600HP 4L60 or 4l80
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 31
Likes: 2
From: Dallas/Fort Worth
600HP 4L60 or 4l80 01 Camaro LS1 car with 150 shot of nitrous planned in the future. Looking to swap from T56 to auto and I've been on the fence about which direction to go for awhile. If it were you, would you put in a built 60e with good converter from one of our sponsors, or go with a built 80e?
I'm seeing more and more built 60's out there now holding up to the power for a mild street car.
Looking to make 550ish horsepower on the nitrous.
note- this is not a daily
thanks!
I'm seeing more and more built 60's out there now holding up to the power for a mild street car.
Looking to make 550ish horsepower on the nitrous.
note- this is not a daily
thanks!
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 205
Likes: 70
From: Phoenix AZ
Wow 01 Camaro LS1 car with 150 shot of nitrous planned in the future. Looking to swap from T56 to auto and I've been on the fence about which direction to go for awhile. If it were you, would you put in a built 60e with good converter from one of our sponsors, or go with a built 80e?
I'm seeing more and more built 60's out there now holding up to the power for a mild street car.
Looking to make 550ish horsepower on the nitrous.
note- this is not a daily
thanks!
I'm seeing more and more built 60's out there now holding up to the power for a mild street car.
Looking to make 550ish horsepower on the nitrous.
note- this is not a daily
thanks!
Taking a manual car and converting to an automagic you texan's are loon's!!!
I see it is not a Daily Driver - good luck to you and that T56 will sell very quickly!!!
TECH Junkie
Joined: May 2012
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From: Poplarville, MS
I am a diehard 4L60E supporter, but if you are not starting out with a 4L60E already in the car and at that power level I would go with the 4L80E. This way you would only have to buy one trans, torque converter and other parts to make the swap when you decide you need more power.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Nitro Alley
550 total HP for a 4L60E is no problem...
However, power made with Nitrous-Oxide is the most abusive type of power that an Engine or Transmission will see outside of Nitro-Methane Fuel or worse.
Yes a 4L60E with a Very-Good $800 to $1,200 Nitrous Torque-Converter and the appropriate Transmission modifications for an Engine with a normally aspirated output of 750 HP will do just fine.
The SHOCK of the N2O application is always greater than the rated power increase.
So extra power handling would be necessary...
In comparison, I could run a Turbo engine making 750 HP with a Transmission ONLY good for 500 HP.
Blah, blah, blah... a 4L60E good for 750 HP is at the point where a 4L80E starts becoming the more cost effective and stronger option.
However, power made with Nitrous-Oxide is the most abusive type of power that an Engine or Transmission will see outside of Nitro-Methane Fuel or worse.
Yes a 4L60E with a Very-Good $800 to $1,200 Nitrous Torque-Converter and the appropriate Transmission modifications for an Engine with a normally aspirated output of 750 HP will do just fine.
The SHOCK of the N2O application is always greater than the rated power increase.
So extra power handling would be necessary...
In comparison, I could run a Turbo engine making 750 HP with a Transmission ONLY good for 500 HP.
Blah, blah, blah... a 4L60E good for 750 HP is at the point where a 4L80E starts becoming the more cost effective and stronger option.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 31
Likes: 2
From: Dallas/Fort Worth
Thanks for the input fellas. Just to play devils advocate, what are your thoughts on TH400? No overdrive which is a bummer, and the car isnt an all out race car by any means, just curious for input for that route. I see alot of M6 guys go right to a TH400 after ditching the 6 speed. The car has a MWC 9 w/4.11 gears so a gear swap would have to be made I'm sure. Just curious for those who have been at these crossroads before.
the stock first gear in a th400 works great with a 4.11:1 rear gear and the right tire/converter combo. it's really really common for nitrous cars.
whether you can live with it on the street is 100% an individual thing.
whether you can live with it on the street is 100% an individual thing.
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TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,615
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From: Iowa
I agree with all said above.
if you were starting with a 4l60e car...I'd say 100% just keep the 60e
but if you're dealing with a swap anyway...just go 4l80e
If it's not a daily driver and you won't spend much time on the highway, a th400 will likely be less expensive, simpler, and perfectly stout
if you were starting with a 4l60e car...I'd say 100% just keep the 60e
but if you're dealing with a swap anyway...just go 4l80e
If it's not a daily driver and you won't spend much time on the highway, a th400 will likely be less expensive, simpler, and perfectly stout
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 31
Likes: 2
From: Dallas/Fort Worth
There are several high contributing forum members that have chimed in here, I really appreciate that. For awhile it seemed like all you heard about was swapping in an 80e, but that seemed to taper off a bit as time went on. I was curious if those cars that had swapped in that transmission ever regretted going that route or not.
From what I gather is this-
4L60 can be built pretty stout it just really depends on what power adder or future plans you plan to do with the car, and requires no modifications for fitment in a 4th gen Camaro.
4l80 can be built more mildly to handle a decent amount of power and still has an overdrive, but requires cutting the brace in the tunnel to clearance the electrical connector on the drivers side.
TH400 can be built mildly to handle decent power but has no overdrive, and requires no tunnel modifications that I am aware of.
From what I gather is this-
4L60 can be built pretty stout it just really depends on what power adder or future plans you plan to do with the car, and requires no modifications for fitment in a 4th gen Camaro.
4l80 can be built more mildly to handle a decent amount of power and still has an overdrive, but requires cutting the brace in the tunnel to clearance the electrical connector on the drivers side.
TH400 can be built mildly to handle decent power but has no overdrive, and requires no tunnel modifications that I am aware of.
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
I would say your summary is spot on. You have researched it well.
If choosing a 4L60E/4L65E, obviously you want an upgraded/well-built one; IMHO you will at least want a billet output shaft and have the Sonnax input drum reinforcement ring installed. Also a treated input shaft, e.g. from Sonnax or at least from a 4L65E.
The 4L80E experts can give you advice, but I suspect they will recommend a billet input shaft.
A nitrous suitable torque converter should also soften the shock.
If choosing a 4L60E/4L65E, obviously you want an upgraded/well-built one; IMHO you will at least want a billet output shaft and have the Sonnax input drum reinforcement ring installed. Also a treated input shaft, e.g. from Sonnax or at least from a 4L65E.
The 4L80E experts can give you advice, but I suspect they will recommend a billet input shaft.
A nitrous suitable torque converter should also soften the shock.
There are several high contributing forum members that have chimed in here, I really appreciate that. For awhile it seemed like all you heard about was swapping in an 80e, but that seemed to taper off a bit as time went on. I was curious if those cars that had swapped in that transmission ever regretted going that route or not.
From what I gather is this-
4L60 can be built pretty stout it just really depends on what power adder or future plans you plan to do with the car, and requires no modifications for fitment in a 4th gen Camaro.
4l80 can be built more mildly to handle a decent amount of power and still has an overdrive, but requires cutting the brace in the tunnel to clearance the electrical connector on the drivers side.
TH400 can be built mildly to handle decent power but has no overdrive, and requires no tunnel modifications that I am aware of.
From what I gather is this-
4L60 can be built pretty stout it just really depends on what power adder or future plans you plan to do with the car, and requires no modifications for fitment in a 4th gen Camaro.
4l80 can be built more mildly to handle a decent amount of power and still has an overdrive, but requires cutting the brace in the tunnel to clearance the electrical connector on the drivers side.
TH400 can be built mildly to handle decent power but has no overdrive, and requires no tunnel modifications that I am aware of.
Edit: I did have to cut a small portion on the driver's side.
Last edited by mike135531bubba; Mar 28, 2021 at 10:28 AM.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
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From: Nitro Alley
I would say your summary is spot on. You have researched it well.
If choosing a 4L60E/4L65E, obviously you want an upgraded/well-built one; IMHO you will at least want a billet output shaft and have the Sonnax input drum reinforcement ring installed. Also a treated input shaft, e.g. from Sonnax or at least from a 4L65E.
The 4L80E experts can give you advice, but I suspect they will recommend a billet input shaft.
A nitrous suitable torque converter should also soften the shock.
If choosing a 4L60E/4L65E, obviously you want an upgraded/well-built one; IMHO you will at least want a billet output shaft and have the Sonnax input drum reinforcement ring installed. Also a treated input shaft, e.g. from Sonnax or at least from a 4L65E.
The 4L80E experts can give you advice, but I suspect they will recommend a billet input shaft.
A nitrous suitable torque converter should also soften the shock.
A Cryo-Treated OEM Output-Shaft is all that is needed.
I would go to a Billet Output-Shaft if a larger "Hit" of Nitrous-Oxide was used in this application.
(Do not use a Cryo-Treated 4L65E Output-Shaft).
Otherwise for a car like this, I would not go to a Billet Output-Shaft until at least approx. 800+ HP
Trucks are another story entirely, as they break Output-Shafts much more easily.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 31
Likes: 2
From: Dallas/Fort Worth
mike135531bubba, when you clearenced for the 80e electrical connector on the drivers side, did you happen to take any pictures? Everything I have seen on tech shows a fella has to cut a large hole in the tunnel brace to clear the connector. Any pictures would be awesome and probably clear up alot of confusion for the swap itself.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 31
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From: Dallas/Fort Worth
Alot of GREAT information here. Thanks to all that are contributing to this thread. For the 60e, if a guy was going to stay na or go boost, it sounds like those transmissions built right can handle it. From what I have also read the tune for the 60e is VERY important for it to survive.
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
And how much would it cost? Yes, the Sonnax 74678S-HD is expensive at $530, but it is readily available.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,202
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From: Nitro Alley
Vorteciroc, do you know where someone could buy a Cryo-Treated output shaft ready to use? I don't think the average DIY wants to disassemble their trans and then wait 2 weeks for out/back shipping and processing to have their output shaft treated.
And how much would it cost? Yes, the Sonnax 74678S-HD is expensive at $530, but it is readily available.
And how much would it cost? Yes, the Sonnax 74678S-HD is expensive at $530, but it is readily available.
At least from what I have come across... most of the Performance Transmission shops have a local Business that they work with for "Metallurgy Services", like a Cryo-Treatment.
I would recommend to members, that they try a few Transmission businesses in their area; if they can offer this service via a 3rd party.
mike135531bubba, when you clearenced for the 80e electrical connector on the drivers side, did you happen to take any pictures? Everything I have seen on tech shows a fella has to cut a large hole in the tunnel brace to clear the connector. Any pictures would be awesome and probably clear up alot of confusion for the swap itself.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 31
Likes: 2
From: Dallas/Fort Worth
I was able to score a fairly low mileage 98 4l80e from the salvage yard. It has a bolt on yoke which is a bummer, so I just ordered a fully splined output shaft for a slip yoke. I plan on getting this rebuilt. Anyone have any ideas as far as a recommendation on a rebuild kit? I see alot of people reccomend Borg Warner Clutches.