The truth about beefing up the 4l60e
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 187
Likes: 23
From: Israel
The truth about beefing up the 4l60e Hello guys.
I would like to discuss the real upgrades on a 4l60e.
As we all know, there are people who make 1000 HP tranny, 750 HP Tranny and stuff.
The real question is : What is really different between a beefed build 4l60e to a stock one?
Clutches and clearance? Sunshell? Bit of shift firmness using the separator plate holes? Wide band? For a noob like me, it sounds a bit overhyped and its a minor upgrades that would not affect durability in HP.
We dont add some super hold drum pistons, some cast iron Valve body bores. Some beefed up o rings.
What is the truth behind all of that HP builds? What really makes it stronger, if not using the 4l79 and sonnax smart drum? There are tons of parts in our tranny, and we do a very little changes.
Because for me, all i've read is like that : Take a dead stock tranny, put .30" clearance on 3-4, add some boost valve, replace the sunshell, drill few holes and put a wide band with a corvette servo and BOOM! You have 20000 HP tranny. Is it real how it sounds?
I would like to discuss the real upgrades on a 4l60e.
As we all know, there are people who make 1000 HP tranny, 750 HP Tranny and stuff.
The real question is : What is really different between a beefed build 4l60e to a stock one?
Clutches and clearance? Sunshell? Bit of shift firmness using the separator plate holes? Wide band? For a noob like me, it sounds a bit overhyped and its a minor upgrades that would not affect durability in HP.
We dont add some super hold drum pistons, some cast iron Valve body bores. Some beefed up o rings.
What is the truth behind all of that HP builds? What really makes it stronger, if not using the 4l79 and sonnax smart drum? There are tons of parts in our tranny, and we do a very little changes.
Because for me, all i've read is like that : Take a dead stock tranny, put .30" clearance on 3-4, add some boost valve, replace the sunshell, drill few holes and put a wide band with a corvette servo and BOOM! You have 20000 HP tranny. Is it real how it sounds?
TECH Junkie
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 716
From: Poplarville, MS
Hello guys.
I would like to discuss the real upgrades on a 4l60e.
As we all know, there are people who make 1000 HP tranny, 750 HP Tranny and stuff.
The real question is : What is really different between a beefed build 4l60e to a stock one?
Clutches and clearance? Sunshell? Bit of shift firmness using the separator plate holes? Wide band? For a noob like me, it sounds a bit overhyped and its a minor upgrades that would not affect durability in HP.
We dont add some super hold drum pistons, some cast iron Valve body bores. Some beefed up o rings.
What is the truth behind all of that HP builds? What really makes it stronger, if not using the 4l79 and sonnax smart drum? There are tons of parts in our tranny, and we do a very little changes.
Because for me, all i've read is like that : Take a dead stock tranny, put .30" clearance on 3-4, add some boost valve, replace the sunshell, drill few holes and put a wide band with a corvette servo and BOOM! You have 20000 HP tranny. Is it real how it sounds?
I would like to discuss the real upgrades on a 4l60e.
As we all know, there are people who make 1000 HP tranny, 750 HP Tranny and stuff.
The real question is : What is really different between a beefed build 4l60e to a stock one?
Clutches and clearance? Sunshell? Bit of shift firmness using the separator plate holes? Wide band? For a noob like me, it sounds a bit overhyped and its a minor upgrades that would not affect durability in HP.
We dont add some super hold drum pistons, some cast iron Valve body bores. Some beefed up o rings.
What is the truth behind all of that HP builds? What really makes it stronger, if not using the 4l79 and sonnax smart drum? There are tons of parts in our tranny, and we do a very little changes.
Because for me, all i've read is like that : Take a dead stock tranny, put .30" clearance on 3-4, add some boost valve, replace the sunshell, drill few holes and put a wide band with a corvette servo and BOOM! You have 20000 HP tranny. Is it real how it sounds?
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 225
Likes: 31
From: Bismarck, ND
Hello guys.
I would like to discuss the real upgrades on a 4l60e.
As we all know, there are people who make 1000 HP tranny, 750 HP Tranny and stuff.
The real question is : What is really different between a beefed build 4l60e to a stock one?
Clutches and clearance? Sunshell? Bit of shift firmness using the separator plate holes? Wide band? For a noob like me, it sounds a bit overhyped and its a minor upgrades that would not affect durability in HP.
We dont add some super hold drum pistons, some cast iron Valve body bores. Some beefed up o rings.
What is the truth behind all of that HP builds? What really makes it stronger, if not using the 4l79 and sonnax smart drum? There are tons of parts in our tranny, and we do a very little changes.
Because for me, all i've read is like that : Take a dead stock tranny, put .30" clearance on 3-4, add some boost valve, replace the sunshell, drill few holes and put a wide band with a corvette servo and BOOM! You have 20000 HP tranny. Is it real how it sounds?
I would like to discuss the real upgrades on a 4l60e.
As we all know, there are people who make 1000 HP tranny, 750 HP Tranny and stuff.
The real question is : What is really different between a beefed build 4l60e to a stock one?
Clutches and clearance? Sunshell? Bit of shift firmness using the separator plate holes? Wide band? For a noob like me, it sounds a bit overhyped and its a minor upgrades that would not affect durability in HP.
We dont add some super hold drum pistons, some cast iron Valve body bores. Some beefed up o rings.
What is the truth behind all of that HP builds? What really makes it stronger, if not using the 4l79 and sonnax smart drum? There are tons of parts in our tranny, and we do a very little changes.
Because for me, all i've read is like that : Take a dead stock tranny, put .30" clearance on 3-4, add some boost valve, replace the sunshell, drill few holes and put a wide band with a corvette servo and BOOM! You have 20000 HP tranny. Is it real how it sounds?
Hope that helps.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,391
From: Nitro Alley
There are SOO many unnecessary aftermarket Parts produced for Transmissions (the 4L60E in particular).
Hydraulic changes will allow so many Stock Parts to handle a bunch of power.
It would take me longer to write a book on all the unnecessary Parts produced for the 4L60E (and the Stock Parts that work)...
Than writing a book on building a 1,000 HP 4L60E.
For example: The Sonnax 2nd-Servo is a great, beautiful Part...
But the "Corvette" 2nd-Servo with the corresponding Orifice sizing will handle 90+ Percent of anything you through at it (within reason).
Hydraulic changes will allow so many Stock Parts to handle a bunch of power.
It would take me longer to write a book on all the unnecessary Parts produced for the 4L60E (and the Stock Parts that work)...
Than writing a book on building a 1,000 HP 4L60E.
For example: The Sonnax 2nd-Servo is a great, beautiful Part...
But the "Corvette" 2nd-Servo with the corresponding Orifice sizing will handle 90+ Percent of anything you through at it (within reason).
Trending Topics
I created a thread that has lots of good info from me, vorteciroc, maroonmonster, PBA and others. Its a worthwhile read. I would not, however, consider using a 4l60 for 1000hp. You want to make 500-600 maybe even 700hp if you dont mistreat it, it will hold up. But if you plan on going a bit higher than that....You might should consider a different trans.
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On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 187
Likes: 23
From: Israel
I created a thread that has lots of good info from me, vorteciroc, maroonmonster, PBA and others. Its a worthwhile read. I would not, however, consider using a 4l60 for 1000hp. You want to make 500-600 maybe even 700hp if you dont mistreat it, it will hold up. But if you plan on going a bit higher than that....You might should consider a different trans.
These are simple, very cheap for a giant like GM mods, that makes our tranny soooo much better.
If you remember my "Ultimate pan drop" thread, i've made everything that guys sayd to do. I've never seen my tranny like that. It's responsive, powerfull, quick and holds like a champ. I dont know the deeper theory of it, but i think i gave my tranny a second life and it acts like brand new because of these guys.
Now is this what makes our tranny to be so powerfull? A few mods in VB? Just seems like magic to me.
Imagine you take an engine, and you want to boost it and make it stronger, you replace everything. Pistons, rods, cams, bearings, rings and stuff.
And in our tranny? Few simple mods and you're good to go.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,391
From: Nitro Alley
I created a thread that has lots of good info from me, vorteciroc, maroonmonster, PBA and others. Its a worthwhile read. I would not, however, consider using a 4l60 for 1000hp. You want to make 500-600 maybe even 700hp if you dont mistreat it, it will hold up. But if you plan on going a bit higher than that....You might should consider a different trans.
The 4L80E would be the better route to go for many reasons...
And when passing 2,000+ HP, the THM400 with Gear Vendors Over-Drive Unit becomes the better route to take.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,391
From: Nitro Alley
My only question is... Why didn't GM engineer it as Maroon, Iroc and Dana do? This drives me crazy.
These are simple, very cheap for a giant like GM mods, that makes our tranny soooo much better.
If you remember my "Ultimate pan drop" thread, i've made everything that guys sayd to do. I've never seen my tranny like that. It's responsive, powerfull, quick and holds like a champ. I dont know the deeper theory of it, but i think i gave my tranny a second life and it acts like brand new because of these guys.
Now is this what makes our tranny to be so powerfull? A few mods in VB? Just seems like magic to me.
Imagine you take an engine, and you want to boost it and make it stronger, you replace everything. Pistons, rods, cams, bearings, rings and stuff.
And in our tranny? Few simple mods and you're good to go.
These are simple, very cheap for a giant like GM mods, that makes our tranny soooo much better.
If you remember my "Ultimate pan drop" thread, i've made everything that guys sayd to do. I've never seen my tranny like that. It's responsive, powerfull, quick and holds like a champ. I dont know the deeper theory of it, but i think i gave my tranny a second life and it acts like brand new because of these guys.
Now is this what makes our tranny to be so powerfull? A few mods in VB? Just seems like magic to me.
Imagine you take an engine, and you want to boost it and make it stronger, you replace everything. Pistons, rods, cams, bearings, rings and stuff.
And in our tranny? Few simple mods and you're good to go.
Some of the most important being:
Cost...
Time...
To be a relatively well rounded Transmission (not a Drag Race Transmission).
My only question is... Why didn't GM engineer it as Maroon, Iroc and Dana do? This drives me crazy.
These are simple, very cheap for a giant like GM mods, that makes our tranny soooo much better.
If you remember my "Ultimate pan drop" thread, i've made everything that guys sayd to do. I've never seen my tranny like that. It's responsive, powerfull, quick and holds like a champ. I dont know the deeper theory of it, but i think i gave my tranny a second life and it acts like brand new because of these guys.
Now is this what makes our tranny to be so powerfull? A few mods in VB? Just seems like magic to me.
Imagine you take an engine, and you want to boost it and make it stronger, you replace everything. Pistons, rods, cams, bearings, rings and stuff.
And in our tranny? Few simple mods and you're good to go.
These are simple, very cheap for a giant like GM mods, that makes our tranny soooo much better.
If you remember my "Ultimate pan drop" thread, i've made everything that guys sayd to do. I've never seen my tranny like that. It's responsive, powerfull, quick and holds like a champ. I dont know the deeper theory of it, but i think i gave my tranny a second life and it acts like brand new because of these guys.
Now is this what makes our tranny to be so powerfull? A few mods in VB? Just seems like magic to me.
Imagine you take an engine, and you want to boost it and make it stronger, you replace everything. Pistons, rods, cams, bearings, rings and stuff.
And in our tranny? Few simple mods and you're good to go.
first off, gm built this as a cookie cutter transmission. It’s had to fall within whatever budget and do it’s job and last over whatever projected mileage they thought would be acceptable. Do you think grandma or grandpa wants a quick, firm shifting transmission? No. Likely they wouldn’t even want to feel a shift. Or even worry with any of that, so it had to be transparent.
second. Valve body tweaks will not increase the holding capacity of the sunshell, or fix all of the weak points of this transmission. If you fix all of the slippage then you will find the next weakest link. When this transmission is built, there’s factors that have to be considered.
now if your vehicle is stock or close to stock, then yea you could do a few tweaks and it’ll be better. Or I can do just about the same thing in the trans tune.
a corvette servo, .500 boost valve, plastic check ***** and drilling some feed holes and replacing the accumulators with pinless ones would all help. But it won’t fix the wear that the clutches and band already have.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 187
Likes: 23
From: Israel
I must be honest, when I read this post, I laughed, snickered and was tempted to post a snarky comment….but I’ll refrain from it. Instead I’ll explain to you, what I feel you should already know….
first off, gm built this as a cookie cutter transmission. It’s had to fall within whatever budget and do it’s job and last over whatever projected mileage they thought would be acceptable. Do you think grandma or grandpa wants a quick, firm shifting transmission? No. Likely they wouldn’t even want to feel a shift. Or even worry with any of that, so it had to be transparent.
second. Valve body tweaks will not increase the holding capacity of the sunshell, or fix all of the weak points of this transmission. If you fix all of the slippage then you will find the next weakest link. When this transmission is built, there’s factors that have to be considered.
now if your vehicle is stock or close to stock, then yea you could do a few tweaks and it’ll be better. Or I can do just about the same thing in the trans tune.
a corvette servo, .500 boost valve, plastic check ***** and drilling some feed holes and replacing the accumulators with pinless ones would all help. But it won’t fix the wear that the clutches and band already have.
first off, gm built this as a cookie cutter transmission. It’s had to fall within whatever budget and do it’s job and last over whatever projected mileage they thought would be acceptable. Do you think grandma or grandpa wants a quick, firm shifting transmission? No. Likely they wouldn’t even want to feel a shift. Or even worry with any of that, so it had to be transparent.
second. Valve body tweaks will not increase the holding capacity of the sunshell, or fix all of the weak points of this transmission. If you fix all of the slippage then you will find the next weakest link. When this transmission is built, there’s factors that have to be considered.
now if your vehicle is stock or close to stock, then yea you could do a few tweaks and it’ll be better. Or I can do just about the same thing in the trans tune.
a corvette servo, .500 boost valve, plastic check ***** and drilling some feed holes and replacing the accumulators with pinless ones would all help. But it won’t fix the wear that the clutches and band already have.
So if Maroon makes a grandma happy, then why GM shouldn't?
Anyway, i believe that these mods adds durability and help the tranny live a longer and happier life.
But hey, i got your point
I figured out what makes a 60e so durable. It's a 5 pinion planet
Last edited by Edward Stark; Oct 25, 2021 at 07:33 PM.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,618
Likes: 1,328
From: Iowa
for a guy that's gotten alot of help on the forum, you've sure rocketed to being a smart aleck an self proclaimed expert.
If you think building a 1000hp transmission is easy...go ahead and do it, and then teach everybody else to do it. YOU be the one to give away free info and help to guys asking questions.
Statements like your: "Because for me, all i've read is like that : Take a dead stock tranny, put .30" clearance on 3-4, add some boost valve, replace the sunshell, drill few holes and put a wide band with a corvette servo and BOOM! You have 20000 HP tranny. Is it real how it sounds?"
prove the ignorance and arrogance.
If that's what you think...go ahead and do it.
If you think building a 1000hp transmission is easy...go ahead and do it, and then teach everybody else to do it. YOU be the one to give away free info and help to guys asking questions.
Statements like your: "Because for me, all i've read is like that : Take a dead stock tranny, put .30" clearance on 3-4, add some boost valve, replace the sunshell, drill few holes and put a wide band with a corvette servo and BOOM! You have 20000 HP tranny. Is it real how it sounds?"
prove the ignorance and arrogance.
If that's what you think...go ahead and do it.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 187
Likes: 23
From: Israel
for a guy that's gotten alot of help on the forum, you've sure rocketed to being a smart aleck an self proclaimed expert.
If you think building a 1000hp transmission is easy...go ahead and do it, and then teach everybody else to do it. YOU be the one to give away free info and help to guys asking questions.
Statements like your: "Because for me, all i've read is like that : Take a dead stock tranny, put .30" clearance on 3-4, add some boost valve, replace the sunshell, drill few holes and put a wide band with a corvette servo and BOOM! You have 20000 HP tranny. Is it real how it sounds?"
prove the ignorance and arrogance.
If that's what you think...go ahead and do it.
If you think building a 1000hp transmission is easy...go ahead and do it, and then teach everybody else to do it. YOU be the one to give away free info and help to guys asking questions.
Statements like your: "Because for me, all i've read is like that : Take a dead stock tranny, put .30" clearance on 3-4, add some boost valve, replace the sunshell, drill few holes and put a wide band with a corvette servo and BOOM! You have 20000 HP tranny. Is it real how it sounds?"
prove the ignorance and arrogance.
If that's what you think...go ahead and do it.
Im just saying what i see over the internet and youtube from builders like Precision Transmission, performabuilt shop and stuff like that and questioning how real it is. Because the parts list is always close to stock.
Ill give you one example thatIve learned here. there is no matter what clutches you use. GPZ or BW Highs. So whats the hype?
Ill give you another one. .500 Transgo boost valve or Sonnax. "It doest matter" is what ive learned reading here.
Vette servo vs Sonnax 2nd. "Waste od money" Iroc say. And im not doubting anything he say.
So what makes it stronger?! i love facts and trying to figure it up.
This forum is the only place to learn for me. Im just asking about whats real and whats not.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,618
Likes: 1,328
From: Iowa
your demeanor says otherwise
I think you should spend years of your life figuring out how to make a 60e work then come back here and educate everyone else.
The amount of info that has been shared here already is enough to let some guys start some small businesses if they wanted...and I know there have been some that have taken the free info here and started building capable units on the side for some extra money
that's money out of my pocket, and vortec, and performabuilt, and pba, and jake, and fti, and so many others...yet we still give away info.
Posts like yours make us all second guess that decision to share and teach
I think you should spend years of your life figuring out how to make a 60e work then come back here and educate everyone else.
The amount of info that has been shared here already is enough to let some guys start some small businesses if they wanted...and I know there have been some that have taken the free info here and started building capable units on the side for some extra money
that's money out of my pocket, and vortec, and performabuilt, and pba, and jake, and fti, and so many others...yet we still give away info.
Posts like yours make us all second guess that decision to share and teach
I dont know man. Let me quote the greatest : "my fiance's grandma that needed the 4l60e redone. She notices shift feel and timing better than most guys I know. And she has no complaints." (c) Maroon
So if Maroon makes a grandma happy, then why GM shouldn't?
Anyway, i believe that these mods adds durability and help the tranny live a longer and happier life.
But hey, i got your point
I figured out what makes a 60e so durable. It's a 5 pinion planet
So if Maroon makes a grandma happy, then why GM shouldn't?
Anyway, i believe that these mods adds durability and help the tranny live a longer and happier life.
But hey, i got your point
I figured out what makes a 60e so durable. It's a 5 pinion planet
oooooo so thats what make the sunshell break? Or the 3-4 clutches burn? 0r the 2-4 band slip and burn up? makes sense now!
I can't let my transmission see this post because my 4 pinion planet might break if i let him know this.
(yea I sound kinda contradictory to my other posts in my my planet thread, but A 5 PINION ISNT A "FIX ALL" BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION)
TECH Junkie
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 716
From: Poplarville, MS
your demeanor says otherwise
I think you should spend years of your life figuring out how to make a 60e work then come back here and educate everyone else.
The amount of info that has been shared here already is enough to let some guys start some small businesses if they wanted...and I know there have been some that have taken the free info here and started building capable units on the side for some extra money
that's money out of my pocket, and vortec, and performabuilt, and pba, and jake, and fti, and so many others...yet we still give away info.
Posts like yours make us all second guess that decision to share and teach
I think you should spend years of your life figuring out how to make a 60e work then come back here and educate everyone else.
The amount of info that has been shared here already is enough to let some guys start some small businesses if they wanted...and I know there have been some that have taken the free info here and started building capable units on the side for some extra money
that's money out of my pocket, and vortec, and performabuilt, and pba, and jake, and fti, and so many others...yet we still give away info.
Posts like yours make us all second guess that decision to share and teach
MaroonMonster, Edward Stark has always come across to me as arrogant and that is why I don’t usually respond to his post. He will make a post like his and then come back saying that is not how he meant it. Maybe it is a language or cultural difference but his post most of the time rub me the wrong way. My culture is to show respect and gratitude to those who help me. Maybe he should be given some latitude, I don't know? I want to give him some slack but its hard to overlook the disrespect in most of his post.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 187
Likes: 23
From: Israel
MaroonMonster, Edward Stark has always come across to me as arrogant and that is why I don’t usually respond to his post. He will make a post like his and then come back saying that is not how he meant it. Maybe it is a language or cultural difference but his post most of the time rub me the wrong way. My culture is to show respect and gratitude to those who help me. Maybe he should be given some latitude, I don't know? I want to give him some slack but its hard to overlook the disrespect in most of his post.
I have no intention to offend somebody and show any disrespect. I respect all of you, no worries. Thats why im here, thats why im with you.
My expression of my thoughts is builded by how we were tought English in school
Yet, i didnt got any real awnsers here for the question i asked.
@Kfxguy It was a sarcasm about the 5 pinion planet, mate, chill
So i asked a technical question, wich none has awnsered. And it's a reasonable question. All i see is fixes to issues that come over the years and none of real upgrades except Wide band, Boost Valve, 4l79, sonnax smart shell and sunshell. Instead, all the experts are discussing my personality. Come on. Alright, from now on, i will put smilies on every sentence so it will make my text as a better person
Dont worry, im a sissy girl 
@MaroonMonsterLS1 You judge other people by text? Hey, if you'd know me in real life, you would might say that im a cool and positive dude. im NOT teaching, im LEARNING.
It just feels that i asked some hard question that made the pro's here mad.
Once and for all : Im not some butth0le. Im not arrognant. im not agressive. Im not disrespectfull.
I thank you for your help everyday i start my car. I love you all. Im just not into "American politicly correct" style of dialogue because i didnt grow up there. There is never bad intentions in my words. Except if i recommend someone to use the 5 pinion planet.
You guys are so racist
Last edited by Edward Stark; Oct 26, 2021 at 11:13 AM.