i am a racist. I like to race my car. So what?


what’s your question? I directed you to go read some threads on some builds. Look in my signature, there’s a link. All of your questions are definitely answered in that thread. There’s a plethora of info for you to consume.

 

Wow this got crazy quickly.

 

I will only chime in "STRANGE THREAD LOL" and leave it at that ,

 

In before thread lock

My Performabuilt Level II 4L60 has been awesome in my truck... zero complaints!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedXray

In before thread lock



My Performabuilt Level II 4L60 has been awesome in my truck... zero complaints!

Lets explode the PB level 2 4l60e (LEVEL 2 PRO RACE SUPPORTS UP TO 700HP) :

Aftermarket parts :
-Beast sunshell
-BW Dual cage sprag
-Some carbon composite forward friction plates.
-8 high-energy 3/4 Borg Warner friction
-Wide band
-Sonnax 2-4 servo

What they do :
-Case coating of and heavy duty, heat resistant, oil based enamel
-Dual bushings are installed in the rear sun gear
-The sun gear gets drilled
-Install a bigger boost valve
-Confidential like an Intel CPU VB mods.

They state : "We do not block accumulators"
When Ryan on his video completely removes 4-th acum and his guts on level 2 LOL (Btw, Iove this mod).

------------------------

The bottom line is :
They increase pressure
They fix some leaks on the VB (Years of valve wear).
They replace all the o rings.

They do certain things, that as far as i know, called "Remanufacturing", they bring the tranny close to a new state wich came out of Toledo plant. With a slight pressures modifications.

The only beef i see on level 2 is :
-Yah, the sunshell is stronger.
-The dual cage maybe makes the tranny stronger (Some people debate about it).
-The clutch packs, I asked a few times the question : What is the difference between GPZ, Zpac, Blues, BW Hi. No one has given any good awnser. "I love GPZ but i Use BW Hi" they say. Why? You can compare a Gopro Camera and a Insta 360R. Seriously no one compared GPZ and BW Hi yet? Come on.
-Sonnax 2-4 Hell yeah of a better part. Man i love this stuff. Althrough, people say it's a wasted money. Why?!
-Wide band, Some people called it a gimmick. Why?

So thats what im saying. The info i gathered over reading of this forum, is how to make 4l60e Brand new with a modded line pressures. And not make it way more stronger to hold a lot of power and 100 years of use.

I just have an overall feeling, that 4l60e is not sience based on this forum. It's more like a "personal preference" of each build.

I love to think that way :
Cost > What it promises > What it do > Why i need it > Why it's better than Y > What are the downsides > Conclusion.

Yes, there is a ton of info here. No doubt. But the explanation is missing. just a dictate : Use "dat and dat and dat" thats what im protesting.

Only Maroon and vorteciroc can explain something so deep, that it gets written on my soul.
For example the blocking of 3-2. Maroon gave a deepest explanation ever and i could choose between do and dont. And i did.
Too bad there isnt a lot of explanation like this and no guides on parts selection.

So for me. as far as i see this whole picture, even a stock 4l60e can support up to that power. It's installed on Vettes with 650 HP+.

Im not trying to offend somebody. Do your best to understand me.

 

I was not going to comment however just for information, The videos Ryan makes are NOT intended to teach anyone how to build or even what to put in a build But rather just so people can get a glimpse of what we do,
I dare say you copy our parts list and try that alone you will most certainly fail.
We are referring to the 2nd accumulator not being eliminated as the 4th accumulator is useless IMO other than as a lube feed port we address in another manor .
The proprietary mods we do I assure you are not near as simple as you might imagine and a few things you probably would never imagine to get our units to hold up as they do.
As others have mentioned the whole thing is a balancing act, Good hard parts, Quality frictions and yes those are preference more than anything and balancing shift quality so the frictions can handle the power of the shift yet not be so aggressive you beat the hard parts to death.
I am certainly very familiar with the Trail and error of figuring this stuff out and the time and thought that goes into it along with occasional costly failure that comes with the territory,
I am this familiar because as most know on this forum I have been here a long time, I came up with 90 percent of the mods we do spending countless hours looking over fluid schematics and figuring out how to get this to do that or other. I built my first performance 700r4 in 1984 before you could even buy a shift kit of any kind for one.
When someone buys a performance 60E or any trans from us or others that is what they are paying for that is the value of the product. Not just some parts list along with a warranty standing behind in in our case possible one of the longest and truest warranties for Performance car part that we know will be beat on like no tomorrow.
Frank @ PerformaBuilt

PS We nor any performance builder is going to go into great detail of everything we do and why as honestly it would be self defeating to give away years of at times painful and costly trail and error for free.

 

Hi Frank!

You are deepest in the 60's than anybody i know. You make your own parts for it (Who follows you on Facebook knows).
And we cant discuss tech because your approach is way different than others on this forum and you have a lot of secrets wich makes your 60e's way better than others. I've seen your high end 3/4 clutch pack with slotted steels and oversized clutches. It's a real hardcore.

Just trying to figure out, what is different between a stock 60 and a 60 that we, DIYers, can build excluding the higher line pressure and wear cures.
One simple example :

Paper BW clutches or GPZ? It doesnt matter if your line pressure is wrong right? But if your line pressure is right? They both will live long and happy life. Then why spending money on GPZ or BW Highs? Im just trying to figure the logics behind any desicion or recommendation people give here and im super confused.

 

I personally don't believe that there are a ton of secrets still out there.
The Hydraulics of this Transmission have been thoroughly examined and explored for almost 30 Years now.
And the same for the Hard-Parts, for almost 40 years now.

Yes, I am sure that a good amount of Builders still have a few good secrets each...
But not a significant amount anymore.
Most of what individuals discovered years ago, eventually was also discovered by others also building these units.
The science is well understood and thus so are hydraulic modifications.
There is only so much that comprises a 4L60E... they are by far not considered complex.

 

Glad you're OK with the direct conversation.

Recommendation? Get one of the top notch builders in this thread to do your next transmission if you want a quality build.

You've got to pay to play.

You can pay someone that knows or pay by learning the hard way by building some transmissions. Do it yourself can be fun and it can also be expensive in time and possibly parts.

Definitely appreciate Maroon Monster, VortecIroc & PerformaBuilt sharing info and knowledge. They are all A++.

With that said, locally we had a real transmission guru in his sixty's who ran 10's in the 1/4 and made 200+ passes on his 600 whp LT1/4L60E Datsun 260...in the early 2000's. He said up to around ~650 whp or mid 10's, paper was good as anything else IF and Only IF you actually know how to build and set up the transmission

It didn't matter what combo of stock or aftermarket parts the other shops in the area put together none of their 700R4's or 4L80e's lasted as well.

Lot of transmission durability is based in the knowledge of how to build it rather than just the parts. That and good maintenance with new filters and fresh transmission fluid changes regularly. Have a 100% stock 700R4 that worked fine with 389,500 miles or 650,000 KM on it...no rebuilds or repairs.

Otherwise...

 

100%!!!
Im an end user. I have no time or will to experiment and drop the tranny 12 times a year to do something.
I am choosing the approach of : Do it once, Do it well. I want to make the best 4l60e i can in 1 shot for a dialy driver and an active WOT user on a 300 HP truck.
I will sure pay someone to guide me on making the best 60e i can for another 300k Kilometers.

If i had the opportunity to send it to Performabuilt or Maroon, i would def do that But the shipping is like 2500$ on each end

 

no this is not how it works, you still have plastic pistons, and at 1200 whp you are prolly gonna snap the input or driveshaft, let alone break ur whole pump, theres a lot more to it, yah it may work for 2 passes but it will not be a reliable 4l60e what so ever, i snapped sprags within an hour of having my tranny back and its only pushing 330 whp

 

.......he was kidding

 

@RoyalJZ you were just in my private messages saying you were a high school kid with no time to read the forums and you need me to provide you a build list etc
and now you're popping off giving advice and letting people know about what parts are needed and that you break stuff at 330hp??

this entire thread, top to bottom, is a mess.
Just a mess haha


This is exactly what I was saying earlier.
There is already SO much free info on this forum. Provided by people that pay their bills with this stuff.
yet people still just want more more more

The internet has created an environment where people think all info should be free. and they EXPECT expert info
I've been messing with 4l60e's since 2008
frank for probably 20 years before me.
other guys have done that too. if people don't like the FREE info given out here...you're welcome to break things, burn up clutches, design new stuff, test new theories.
then after you spend the time to do all that...let me know if you'll be as eager to give out the info for free. Maybe you won't be as eager as myself, frank, vortec, jake, and countless others are.

 

There is too much emphasis on Parts...
Some are needed, and others not so much.
What matters is what you do with the given Part.

I am high experienced with Heli-Arc Welders from building Tubular Chassis'.
If another guys is given the same Welder as I, but has little experience with it...
I am going to be able to produce superior Joints/ Welds with the Unit.

Understanding of a Component/ System leads to being able to manipulate said Component in the way in which intended.
Again, it is what you can do with the Part... not the Part itself.

 

Giving half info is like giving a women a half a *****.

Dude, im down paying for knowlege. This is not a problem. I already told you that.
Guy like myself, dont have any physical access to you, frank, vortec, jake and countless others.

People in the US can make mistakes, then bring you or frank the tore down 4l60e in a 6 walmart bags crying "PLS HALP". I dont have this option.
The parts i order from the US cost me 20 times more because of shipping and customs and **** to the other side of the world.

Thats why it is super critical for me to do it right the first time.
If money is the problem, you had to say that. The world now is super globalized. There is remote tunings that became popular, where tuners from the US do over the world and reach costumers in Europe, Asia or Middle east on Dyno.

Im asking for a help. I can pay you the money you want for you to guide me to build a 4l60e so i can put it in my TB and forget about it for the next 10 years. Thats why im digging this deep. You hear me brother?

 

No. I just want you to see it.
It's just a sonnax Boost valve and Solenoid set. Now can you feel my pain and understand me?
I cant afford mistakes man.

 

damn. That’s outrageous.


This thread has been a damn trainwreck from the onset. But let me ask you. Are you looking for a one and done guide on what parts you need to build your transmission to live? I don’t remember you saying what you do with the vehicle and how much power you plan on making. Also something extremely important is you have to leave a bit of torque management in the computer tune. If not, the trans may not last. That’s an often overlooked detail. Tuner just zero’s out the tq management and that’s a no no.

 

Well. I have 4.2 2008 Trailblazer.
E67 PCM with T42 PCM. GM Gen 4.
It is stock but going to be slightly tuned.
I have a spare tranny in my garage.

My goal is to build it the best i can. So i wont miss anything so i can sleep good at night
There is a lot of info. But the problem is glueing all of it together from a lot of threads.
Many of them are outdated and guys here came with new things.

Just trying to get the most recent and updated tricks with the tranny
Hey, i can pay you for remote help

P.S - Im not a noob. You dont have to worry about me flipping valves and assemble the tranny wrong haha.
Already modded my VB with Maroon, Vorteciroc and 2BFAST and here is what i did :

https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...des-4l60e.html

I hope i didnt forgot anything there.

 

I appreciate the offer but I don’t need payment for helping. I don’t mind helping anyone when I can. I’ve been building just 4l60’s since the late 90’s and I’ve got a good reputation locally for building them to hold up to some abuse. I still have a question here and there because there’s so much that can go wrong and I usually don’t have problems so when I do, I don’t have much experience figuring out the problem. Although I do always figure it out. Sometimes I ask questions to get other peoples experience involved.
anyways. Give me a couple hours and I’ll get together a cheap and simple combo for you that I’ve run in a bunch of my builds that works and will last you for years to come.

 

Which thread? Your trans build thread or something else? Thanks.
By the way, if there are so many threads on it, someone should combine all the common items AND procedures, then show the parts/procedures NOT common--things that separate certain builders from others. We have so many great contributors that each/many may have trade "secrets" and if there were MILLIONS OF 4l60/60e/65e/70e out there, there's still so many others to take care of so what's 25-50-100 people here that are eager to learn to do it?

@vorteciroc, you should make a book that you could sell thru HP Books or whoever is still a major autobooks publisher! I think they sell a combined book on GM OD's that probably sucks and is outdated with 700R4's and 4l60's and maybe less on 60e/65e, and does that even cover 70's and OTC 75's? PUT OUT A 60E FAMILY BOOK!