Hello all. I need some help identifying the input shaft and pump requirements for this transmission. This was built for me and already had the pump replaced. The case is a 2005 with 5CSD marking. It sorta looks like the shaft has the 05-06 Pre-iss transition shaft, but the pump that I pulled out does not have an ISS dummy plug. Trying to figure out if I need an ISS style pump or not. Is there a measurement from the end to the Teflon o-ring groove that I can use to verify?

 

Looks like the first Teflon O-ring is roughly 6.75” from the end of the shaft. Can anyone measure an 98-03 style shaft to confirm if this matches?

 

https://atracom.blob.core.windows.ne.../2008_3_26.pdf

This article seems to indicate I have the intermediate ISS shaft without the reluctor wheel. The diagrams aren’t well labeled but the two band identifier mark seems to match up.

The pump is definitely not ISS type or have the ISS shaft sleeve. Would this explain the two fractures pump rotors? Maybe the valve locations being off caused the line pressure being too high? I have to say, it shifted and drove well….. except for the two pump failures.

 

You have the ISS shaft without the ISS reluctor on it.

THIS IS A NON ISS SHAFT YEAR IS APPROX 2002.


I just put a 2007 Pre ISS transmission together. Didn't take a whole lot of pictures.

 

Well crap. Looks like my builder put a non-ISS pump in this thing. Anyone know if this could cause high line pressure and crack the rotor? Frankly, I’d be relieved if I’ve finally found the cause, but not trusting much at this point.

 

No this would not cause rotor issues so unrelated problems. The pump however still might be right. We ran into this years ago GM made some pumps where the pump body is not drilled but the stator still has the hole inside for the ISS. These were used with the input shaft you have, If you take photo of your pump at where IIS would be I can tell you.
Side note having torn down working units where your shaft type and an older stator type used found it seems to cause no issue with trans.
The issue comes if it's done the other way as the top ring for overrun in the earlier shaft ends up riding on edge of ISS hole in stator and will be damaged This will cause no overrun engine braking in some of the manual shifted lower gears.
IMO you have not found your rotor breaking issue.
As for what pumps you can use, Pump with ISS Hole in stator drilled or not drilled The none drilled are not common best of you are looking to buy one just get an ISS pump. This will work fine with your shaft.

As for repeatedly breaking pump rotor
Spacing, engine thrust bearing run out, Missing engine dowl for alignment, Improper installation of converter into pump, using converter bolts to pull converter forward during install distorting flex plate, Pump slide bounce due to wrong filter or low fluid levels are only causes I have ever run into. These units can run at max line for extended times as I have been in units set up full manual and no modulator or other pressure control and seen no signs of damage though I do not care for units done this way.
Photo from many angles of your broken rotor could also give us some clues to what the issue might be ,
Frank@PerformaBuilt

 

Thanks Frank and happy Thanksgiving. Glad to know the wrong pump hasn't destroyed the transmission somehow. This pump doesn't appear to have the ISS stator support sleeve or boss. Here are some pictures.



The large ISS hole should be to the top right side of the sleeve I believe. At least that is where the ISS boss would be if it had one.

I'll try to get some pictures of the pump rotor. To my eye it looks like the torque converter may only have been 2/3 engaged. One of the pump drive tangs is fractured or chipped about 2/3 of the way in. I'll post some pics shortly.

Would you replace the converter if it just wasn't seated deep enough? The pump rotor parts appear to be accounted for and the snout looks to be in good shape. Is a billet rotor a worthwhile upgrade?

 

Here are some pictures of the rotor. It looks to me like the TC was only partially engaged. I eye balled the gap to the flex plate at 1/8" but I can't prove it was still all the way in the pump. Hard to measure the gap or slide the torque converter back with just the tiny inspection port.

 

As I said the few i have torn down done that way I did not observe any actual issues with it,
And yes you are not deep enough into the rotor, when the flex plate well flexs out it will come and boom.
Ideally you want to be about the half way mark in the rotor or a little more. i would get as close to a 1/8th inch gap converter to flex plate as I could.

 

@Summitracing brand converters say you can have up to 5/16" gap.

Got to be careful even if the instructions say it's ok.

 

That would probably allow the problem to persist until it destroyed something else.

Definitely find the problem before thinking about that.

 

We don't want to take away from the thread but want to make sure the wrong info isn't getting out there.

@BigBlackCamaro, We're not aware of instructions for our Summit Pro LS converters showing 5/16" converter mounting pad to flexplate clearance being ok. Per our Pro LS converter instructions we recommend 1/8" +/- .0025". We can't speak for Boss Hog. If someone was interested in one of their converters we'd recommend reaching out to them directly. In the event we have info on one of our Pro LS converters showing that 5/16" of clearance is ok please provide us with a link on our site and we'll get it corrected.

 

@Summitracing
It wasn't a Pro LS, but was a Summit brand.
Says don't pull the converter out more than 5/16"
That means 5/16" is ok, but more than 5/16" is not.
5/16" is not ok for any converter.

Here are your instructions: https://static.summitracing.com/glob...m-g2709-12.pdf

 

Here is another Image of the Stator Support Sleeve:

 

@BigBlackCamaro,

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. That is a misprint in the instructions. We'll get that corrected to better serve our customers.

 

I am just going to mention that BOSS HOG (at least the Original from 30 Years ago)...
Produced Kits and Motorcycles with a MINIMALLY liquid-cooled Gen-I SBC and a VERY HOT running Power-Glide.

Converter spacing should be increased in this situation... 4/16" (1/4") to 5/16" is not a bad recommendation in that situation.
This is probably a mistakenly carried over Measurement to the TC listed in this Thread.

As already posted the TC spacing should be tighter here.


I owned a Boss Hog a long time ago...
Now it's a Nitro-Methane Ducati Penigale V4 for me these days!
Nothing like 15K RPM and 3HP per 1.0 Lbs. (Too bad I can no longer ride it... any semi-pro Riders in here?)

 

LOL anyone wanna guess what the TC spacing is on a Lenco-Drive, 10,000 HP Funny-Car?

 

More so that the Spacing recommendation was carried over from a very HOT operating platform that may need the additional spacing due to heat expansion.