Is the hd2 kit worth buying for the 60e?

I've been reading and reading and it seems only certain things from it are used by the reputable builders in this forum. Seems like only the 7cs springs, 1-2 accumulator springs, maybe servo piston components, separator plate and .500 boost valve. The blocking of the 3-2 valve, epc screen fix, tcc valve modification, afl valve modification, and 4th accumulator seem to not require the use of the hd2 kit. Am I right or Am I wrong? Have never built a 60e, I'm currently in the process of putting one back together.

I currently have an transgo sk kit, and a sonnax performance pack and lb1 boost valve (bought these before I did my research on the forum)

 

keep searching around on this forum there are bunch of threads with DIY shift kit. I do not think the Transgo kit is worth it. CS7 springs yes. stick with the sonnax LB1 boost valve.

 

Combining tech from 2 different MFG such as TransGo & Sonnax is not recommended. It can cause drivability concerns that are not easily fixed. I would stay with one or the other. If you do decide on the TransGo brand the 4L60E-HD kit is a good upgrade from the SK4L60E box kit. TransGo addresses the TCC system and I don't think the Sonnax Performance kit does.

You are correct that a lot of things can be done without a "kit" if you are a more experienced builder or a more informed DIY'er. Most of these "kit's are designed for an inexperienced builder. it's a package that teams of builders designed for the average enthusiast that's not so transmission savvy.
The 7CS spring in the 4L60E-HD kit are really only designed for RPM's over 5800. The different new 1-2 shift valve in the 4L60E-HD kit is for hold in first to any speed or downshift to first at any speed. So if you are not inclined to need these things, the HD kit is not needed. I use the HD kit a lot and find that it works very well for most customers. once in a while you have to de-tune the 1-2 to their liking.

 

Here is what I do for most stock plus builds. Some of this I gathered from my own experience & some information was shared from this forum. Thank you @bbond105 , @MaroonMonsterLS1, @vorteciroc & anyone else that may recognize some of this as theirs.
I use Borg-Warner High-Energy 3-4 frictions or Raybestos GPZ 3-4's. I have 2 configurations.
1) 7/.080 frictions+ 6/.077 steels, use .095 or .106 steels to get .030 clearance.
2) 7/.065 frictions + 6/.095 steels, use a .106 to get .030 clearance if needed.

Stock Borg-Warner everywhere else.

Raybestos Pro band set to .093-.125 clearance. I measure @ the 3-4 feed hole. (preferably .093)
I bore 90% of my PR valves, because most test at 15" before and 25" after boring.
.490 boost valve & sleeve (if it's a trailblazer I use a .472 boost valve)
I use a wet-stone on the OE separator plate, if the 1-2 check-ball hole measures more than .230 I use a AX4N Torlon .312 ball
O-Ring End Plugs 77964-08K
Abuse valve bore plugs 77754-21 OR Transgo Abuse Valve Bore Plugs 4L60E-ABUSE-BP (if using TGo plug, the 3-2 downshift bore lug needs to be .790-.800 long)
Use a piece of brake line, cut to length, to block both the 3-2 downshift (5/16"x.830) and 3-2 control valves(⅜"x.830) inboard.
for the 3-2 downshift, take the spring out, and place it INSIDE of the AFL spring
Remove the TCC reg valve lineup, take the inner most valve, flip it 180 degrees and re-install it backwards. Reinstall the rest as it came out. This will be ON/OFF TCC.
Block the 4th accumulator, on stock stuff I flip the accumulator piston/spring.
Drill the separator plate holes also.
1-2 drill 10% larger hole than it measured and never over .065.
2-3 drill .093 HD .106
3-4 drill .093 HD .106
Band release drill .085
Transgo shows two small holes in the bottom left of the plate. Drill .055-.062 max.
1) Is AFL feed (orifice 32)
2) Is TCC regulated supply (orifice 8)

 

this is what I was looking for!
I'm currently stacking a bunch of information from a whole lot of threads on a word document to compile a parts list. You pretty much gave me a huge head start. On the 3-4 stack, what apply plate and backing plate are ya using? .22x and .19x?
also that band clearance seems like a lot or it pertains to that band and your separator plate hole sizing and 3-2 valve blocking? I read everywhere to use .060"
have also read to use around .101" on the band release if blocking 3-2 valve.
just asking for your thoughts not challenging your post in any way I am actually thankful for taking the time to type it all out for me.

 

I use the factory 4L60E plates. I just wet-stone them to make sure they are flat. If they have been overheated to much, I just replace both of them. $25-$30 for both isn't a bad price. I just mix-match steels to get my .030 clearence.
I try to get around the .093 if reusing a reverse input drum. New drums get .060-.093 and a wide band. The GPX brand kevlar band has turned out to be a very nice product.
The band release hole size & clearance are a little finicky. It's all a timing issue really. To fast of a release before the 3-4 applies gives a thump at the end of the shift. If the 3-4 applies before it fully releases the band you get a slight bind at the end of the 2-3 shift. .085-.093 seems to be good band release size no matter where the 3-4 clearance is.

 

I know one well known builder here that uses and recommends using all springs for any build. i started out using his kits with them and use them in my own builds now. Most of my stuff is 5500 rpm and below, I do not think they are just for 5800+, maybe that for the input drum orfice that is not recommended.

 

Is it worth it?
Depends on what you're doing.

I've had several 100k miles or less s10's with 4.3's that I've put the SK kit in with their .500 boost valve, aluminum pistons and corvette servo. Following the instructions in the kit they turned out perfect. And what I mean by perfect may not be the same as what everyone else means.
I mean all the shifts are noticeable and have the same firmness and timing. I also fine tune them with programming, which isn't much.
Every one I've sold the buyers said they like the way the transmission shifts.

If I'm building something that revs high I use the HD2 kits, which doesn't come with a plate as you mentioned.
I do block the 3-2 valve and drill the 3rd feed to .140 and the band release to .106 and plug the hole in the plate. I adjust the band to .062 or close (it's easy to use those transgo washers as a gauge since they're .062, adjust it tight with one of those in there, then take it out) and the 3-4 clutch to .030 with the stock thick apply plate and stock thick top plate 7 .080 high energy green frictions and .076 regular steels with one stock .106 usually works to get close to .030.
All the other holes the kit says to drill I drill to .093 except for 2nd. 4th is .125

Also if it revs high I use the transgo hi rev pump kit. Mainly to tighten the vane clearance since the rings are new and slightly larger. And use all of the springs in the CS kit. Which by the way can be a high rev or low rev kit if one wants to split hairs. Read the instructions, it says leave certain ones out if not revving high. That kit also didn't always come with the capsule orifice so it's not all about that. That hole can be plugged and the bleed hole drilled on the side of the drum like Dana from Pro Built does it. And for that I don't see why that orifice is not recommended. One bleed hole is one bleed hole, I guess if you drill it you have to hunt down a small drill bit and a plug instead of using what comes in a kit designed to provide everything you need.

I'd recommend getting a kit and using it as the instructions say. Some career transmission builders on here long forgot what building ONE for yourself is like and the advice given is not understandable and or unachievable for most people building just one at home or in a general use shop. And even at that I've seen way too many things on the internet where people say they can't understand an HD2 kit. If a person can't understand that they should pack it up and take it to a transmission shop.

There's a point where a person reads too much, sees too much conflicting information and gets so confused they have no idea what to do.

 

I believe Dana has been recommending for the last 10 years to not use the Transgo capsule in the input drum but to just keep the stock checkball and make sure it doesn't leak down. others have recommended the Superior K070 instead. I am not sure about drilling a hole in the input drum but I have heard of drilling a bleed hole in the reverse input drum. agreed for the average home gamer probably easier to just install a TG kit, it is not a bad kit I am just thrifty/cheap.


Info on blocking checkball in input drum:.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...l#post19657205

 

Do you understand that you posted a link to Dana explaining how he blocks the capsule hole and drills a hole in the input drum?

This is what you linked to.

 

The idea here is that the TransGo capsule orifice is still on the front of the drum and will still allow fluid to be trapped in the drum. By drilling a hole in the side of the drum (and blocking the capsule hole) ensures all fluid can escape.

It's actually easier to block the hole in the TransGo orifice if you don't have access to anything else to plug it, then drill the hole as described.

 

yes i'm well aware what I posted as I looked it up after i read your post. i shared the link incase the OP or others were interested (like myself) about this method. As far as Dana not using the capsule this is direct experience with me dealing with him the last 14 years. i recall talking to him on the phone as the capsule was no longer supplied in the kit I ordered from him and he informed me to just keep checkball if I was not going over 7000rpm

 

I'm familiar with everything except plugging the plate hole. What hole are you referring to? The ball next to the band release hole?

Also thanks to both of you guys for replying. I was aware of the bleed hole mods but dont have any experience to see if it's even needed for my application.

 

So I have tuned a ton of high rpm NA SBE setups recently (last 2 years) and they're all built by a very non technical builder and kinda sloppy (I mention these mods and he's like huh?) But the transmissions last a decent amount , single cab silverados making 580 rwhp on my dyno, going 6.4s in the 1/8th, and I rev those MFs to 8000rpm i remove all torque management, still on stock drum too.. idk what he does tbh because I don't want to be that guy that takes his side hustle in regards to building 60es
but Im currently building my own SBE NA setup and im buildin my own trans too at the moment so I want it to hold a decent amount at least 20 or 30 1/8 mile hits
We run 4.56 gears and 5k stalls or bigger
You're a wealth of knowledge and I have been watching DANAs posts too, it's just me trying to figure out what mods are truly needed as some people comment that a bleed hole is not needed. Some say yes, some say block the separator plate, some say don't. It seems most of the mods and hole sizing is for small torque Converters and engines making maybe 450whp

If this guy can build a 60e that lasts a decent amount I can too is my thought process lol

What do you plug the case with ? Or just jb weld the separator plate?


Also I have that thread saved too, the one where hole sizing is mentioned based on:

If 3-2 valve is blocked but chrckball is left in
if 3-2 valve is blocked but checkball removed
if 3-2 valve is not blocked " "
If 3-2 valve is blocked " "

Just don't know if hole sizing is too small for big stall or not

That picture you posted with handwritten notes, the left hole sizes I assume are danas old suggestions, and the holes you use now are on the right? Or you just use transgo hole sizing?(I know you mentioned on an earlier thread the sizes you use, but for what application are those holes for? Mild street and strip?) I've read from maroonmonster that the TG HD2 hole sizing is just wrong
I'm sure there's more than 1 way to skin this trans, but thought I'd ask and pick your brain


"There's a point where a person reads too much, sees too much conflicting information and gets so confused they have no idea what to do."

Definitely me right now lol.

 

You mean the plate?
I stole an idea from the transgo 700 2&3 kit and made an aluminum plug with a Whitney punch on a thick piece of aluminum (like 2x thicker than the plate) turn a big drill on each side of the hole to make a countersink, put the plug in and tap it a little with a small hammer. Make sure it sits flat on the case and valve body, sometimes you have to file it down. Also in Superior products th350 kits they had some nice, maybe, lead plugs. If you had old parts transmission kits around. There's also a plug for this hole in the TransGo 4L60E-3 kit. I just did one and used a plate out of a core that had that that kit in it with the transgo plate already plugged and the holes drilled smaller than I wanted them. So I drilled it and used it.

 

The holes on the left are what was suggested. The holes on the right were about how many times I pulled the plate out. But they aren't final.

So if I use an HD2 kit I block the 3-2 valve, plug the plate hole.
.106 band release.
.140 3rd
.125 4th
.082 or .093 2nd
The rest I drill as the kit suggests to .093
For the second accumulator I use what Dana has always suggested. The deep housing, piston with legs not flat on top (thats my choice, seems to make the low speed shifts softer and high load shift more firm) No spacers, blue spring in the housing 1st, gold washer against the bumps on the piston and orange spring on top. Theres a picture from an old account of mine on here that show this, I repainted the springs and the top one is red.

I usually don't run more than a 3200 stall speed, I like to be a little lower than needed. This setup with hit hard with the converter well past the stall speed.

 

Bottom line here is every builder has what works for them and where to draw the line at certain modifications.
The 3-4 clutch centrifugal apply is a very hot one!!!
In a conversation I had with Jim @ the TransGo tech line. He stated that the factory 3-4 return spring get overcome around 6200 & above. So I have always used the 5800 mark to up-sell to the 4L60E-HD kit. I understand that TransGo shows 5500 in their kit instructions. It's just that's what I do and seems to work for me.

You have to ask yourself how many 1-2, 2-3 shifts are really going to be above 5500 RPM's??? 10%, 20%, 30%? 50%-100? in a drag car maybe... How fast is the centrifugal apply going to affect the 3-4 clutch distress. I've built a few that the customer says "I've tried to tear it up every time I drive and it wont break!" One in particular broke his rear-end, that damaged a torrington bearing in the rear planet. Him and I tore it down together the 3-4's were GPZ-100's with .077 steels and they looked like they just came out of the soak pail. It had the factory 3-4 return springs. I asked him how often he shift's above 5500, he said "a lot"
I have also had the hairy legged kit that broke an output shaft with a 2006 4.3L Silverado.
I also tell my customers that past the 12-month warranty, I will tear it down, re-evaluate the unit for upgrades for $350 plus parts as long as they own it!

@BigBlackCamaro said "There's a point where a person reads too much, sees too much conflicting information and gets so confused they have no idea what to do."
And I 100% agree with that statement.

Some where, some time a guy draws his line in how to build a reliable product at a fair price.